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SEALS Need Fixing????

#6
The community needs a bit of a wake-up. SF went through some of that in the VN and post VN period... and made clamming up and doing the job a matter of institutional pride.

IMHO, The seals probably need to police themselves more than anything else. And that comes through leadership within, not punishments from on high. A culture of silence rather than one if chest pounding and book deals... then again, they have earned the right to a certain amount of chest pounding.

And the Navy has tacitly encouraged the “look at me” seal culture because they are the best PR the Navy has. No one cares about black shoe sailing any more. Every kid Wants to be a SEAL.

As for the shape up or the yardarm will drop... if they don’t do the first, they will get the second, IMHO.

Cheers, Sirhr
 
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#12
BLKWLFK9 said:
Doesnt everyone know that SEALs run off of beer and hair gel? I say give them more.
Click to expand...

I say keep them tying knots on decks and leave the DA missions to the rest of the SOF community. But I get it, the Navy really needs a recruitment tool. ...just like they need a say component to their BUDS process...

Fucking give their missions (and budget) to MARSOC and give the “new” quiet professionals a shot at taking point. SF is too busy with forgetting their FID roots (because everyone wants to kick doors as an “operator”) and PJ’s are being pushed into the stack tasking now (why are we sending PJ’s to DM/Sniper courses), so why not let MARSOC take point on the DA work?
 
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#14
M8541Reaper said:
I say keep them tying knots on decks and leave the DA missions to the rest of the SOF community. But I get it, the Navy really needs a recruitment tool. ...just like they need a say component to their BUDS process...

Fucking give their missions (and budget) to MARSOC and give the “new” quiet professionals a shot at taking point. SF is too busy with forgetting their FID roots (because everyone wants to kick doors as an “operator”) and PJ’s are being pushed into the stack tasking now (why are we sending PJ’s to DM/Sniper courses), so why not let MARSOC take point on the DA work?
Click to expand...

How much work are CCT's and TacP's getting these days?
 
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#16
BLKWLFK9 said:
How much work are CCT's and TacP's getting these days?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Give them more work. Dudes in Batt have been dealing with fast/minimum turnarounds for decades so I don’t want to hear that “high op tempo” shit from the SEAL sympathizers.,

Nowadays, the ones who suck off the SEALs are mostly POGs and civis who have ever worked or been around them. Add on the Uber’s who ferry them around yet never admit to their own MOS but defend the SEALs do their deaths just to get a taste of the action. Obviously this excludes those who have been injured in the BUDs pipeline and those who have “would of made it but my old HS football injury.”
 
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#19
Navy guy here: yea, I seriously see no reason for the SEALs to exist any more. I guess there was a reason back when the only other legit SF were the Army's but not any more.

I don't see anything they do that Marines can't do as well given the needed training.
 
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#20
M8541Reaper said:
SF is too busy with forgetting their FID roots (because everyone wants to kick doors as an “operator”)
Click to expand...

You are right on about that being an issue in the GWOT... not sure where it stands today as far as wanting to kick doors... But the focus in SF is changing back in a big way. A lot of retirees are even being brought back as instructors and trainers and lecturers to get the whole community back into their COIN and force multiplier roots. But you hit that nail on the head.

Cheers, Sirhr
 
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#21
sirhrmechanic said:
You are right on about that being an issue in the GWOT... not sure where it stands today as far as wanting to kick doors... But the focus in SF is changing back in a big way. A lot of retirees are even being brought back as instructors and trainers and lecturers to get the whole community back into their COIN and force multiplier roots. But you hit that nail on the head.

Cheers, Sirhr
Click to expand...


Good hopefully they will be going after the old and ancient enemy the Communists, DNC Chair Perez should be worried.
 
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#23
Can we all just take a moment for the forgotten kids, the salty Marine 0311’s (with HRST training) equivalents? Yea I’m talking about Army Rangers. Those poor kids with their training cycles, 4 month deployments, and having to live with themselves for joining the Army...

They’re the ones who should be writing books and cutting movie deals. Nothing more than 0311’s but in the Army....having to deal with being special and yet not that special because everyone wants to suck off SEALs. I remember a time when there was a movie about Rangers... the good old days...

#ConAir
#NotARangerButIStayedAtAHolidayInnExpressOnceWhileInTheGrunts
#0311sAreTheSameAsRangersJustWithLessOfABudgetAndCommandLove
#ChangeMyMind
#RangersAreSurprisinglyMoreOfAQuietProfessionalThanSEALs
#BestSEALtoDateIsStevenSegal
#EvenStevenWasAQuieterProfessionalComparedToCurrentDayNSWDudes
#CharlieSheenEmbodiedATrueSEALInHisDocumentaryNavySEALs
#God
#NothingOnStarlightSwitchingToThermal
 
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#25
Fucking SEALs. They have no mission above sea level. Subsequently, they are always losing something with no time to pick it up. They can swim like motherfuckers but put them too far inland and altitude and they don't want to run 100 yards. They have no concept of a high cliff. They will just fall right off that fucker. Not that there anything wrong with that. Also, they tried to block Chapman's MOH. They also awarded the SEAL Team 6 leader that left Chapman behind the MOH. Like I said they drop things and just say fuck it. Even Roberts fell out of a chopper and they had to go back. Two bunkers is the new Tarawa.
 
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#28
There is some truth in this thread, but a lot of ignorance too. There is no one more upset with all these developments than the Fraternal Order.

This last one though, that they were drinking beer in theatre on the 4th of July, is bullshit. I'm not saying they haven't earned being under the Nav/media microscope, but this is nothing but some punkassbitches settling some score.

Who here hasn't illegally drank alcohol (with zeros) when in a Satan worshiping shithole? Shit, one of my army buddies traded a FGM-148 for a bottle of hooch on The March Up. That's Leavenworth shit at home, but NOTHING in a warzone.

I won't argue that the community hasn't brought this on itself. People need to keep their fucking mouths shut and treat social media like a social disease (which is what it is).
 
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#30
Its a Muslim country and against regulations. Have you ever served over there? Both alcohol and nudey magazines are an NJP at least. I can't imagine that's changed since I was in many moons ago...
The sole exception was The Red Lion in Dubai. When I served it was the only bar in the Dar Islam.

I think I was served alcohol by MWR in the Navy every single 4th of July EXCEPT those when in a Muslim country.
 
#32
Fig said:
There is some truth in this thread, but a lot of ignorance too. There is no one more upset with all these developments than the Fraternal Order.

This last one though, that they were drinking beer in theatre on the 4th of July, is bullshit. I'm not saying they haven't earned being under the Nav/media microscope, but this is nothing but some punkassbitches settling some score.

Who here hasn't illegally drank alcohol (with zeros) when in a Satan worshiping shithole? Shit, one of my army buddies traded a FGM-148 for a bottle of hooch on The March Up. That's Leavenworth shit at home, but NOTHING in a warzone.

I won't argue that the community hasn't brought this on itself. People need to keep their fucking mouths shut and treat social media like a social disease (which is what it is).
Click to expand...

The alcohol as a reason is actually the smoke screen. The reason they were sent home is that a senior NCO was accused of raping a female attached to the unit and the entire platoon took the fifth when investigators started asking questions.
 
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#34
As far as I can tell it's innuendo and uncorroborated allegation. Everyone taking the 5th was about the alcohol as far as I can tell, or are you suggesting they were all involved in a rape?

When I served Admirals were being drummed out for uncorroborated allegations made by female recruits. It was guilty till proved innocent. Not only did I not hang out with any female service people, I would not even talk to a female service person unless it was professional. Fucking enlisted support personnel is such a bad idea, period, it's hard to have any sympathy even if the whole thing is made up. It's hard to defend anything when it so fucking public and the decisions are soo poor.
 
#35
ArmyJerry said:
I still dont know why they exist, the Navy has marine police force already known as the USMC.
Click to expand...

Because the Navy doesn't want the backlash that would come from the USMC; give a Marine a license to kill and it can NEVER be VOIDED!
as in 'ONCE A MARINE ALWAYS A MARINE'
The Navy and others still think they own the Corps when in fact all they do is escort them from sea to shining sea!
 
#36
BLKWLFK9 said:
A lot of DA missions that SEALs are given seem to fit the scope of practice for Marine Raiders. Idk why they would be given to the navy? Maybe it's as simple as team 6 and their lack of accountability is what is appealing to mission planners?
Click to expand...


The Marines initially resisted the rush to Tampa.

The idea, although enviable, it will never be achievable, is that each Marine is SOC.

There has to be a core of people that get the budget and time to train for the strategic missions that call for their skills.

These should not be guys that get it for signing on their first enlistment.

Earn it, want it and make achieving the accomplishment so hard that your pride should prevent you from ever shitting on your reputation.

Sadly the money, the careerism, and the need to lower standards to get bodies to fill the operation tempo is killing the "Special" status.

We shouldnt fight wars ala Rumsfeld with special ops only.

If it is worth going to war. Big Army and all units get involved. Strip Germany Japan and Korea of everything but janitors........

Institute a draft.......

and go to war with a storm of destruction that ends the shit fast.

Let the Line units fight the line.

Keep the Spec Ops guys for strategic decapitations and intelligence.

Army SF needs to fulfill that education role of locals they used to be invested in so as that when the dust settles there are people that know how and are willing to turn our newly made dust into bricks and rebuild their country with some semblance of civility.
 
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#37
Bunch of pussies.

Lifer: I'm going to Article 15 your ass.

Me: I've gotten an Article 15 before.

No shit, compressor painting my jeep in garrison and the OIC comes out with a LOR for something I did months before. He lays it on the hood. I ask him what does he want me to do with it. He says, ah, just spray your signature on it. So I did including his hand holding it down. It was an impossible job and just made a big mess. I never saw that LOR again or any subsequent one.
 
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#42
ArmyJerry said:
When I was in we got issued beer and porn,we dint ask permission from people who's asses we just kicked

it must suck t be winning and getting punkd at the same time.
Click to expand...


Don't worry AJ, drinking still occurs (and often time with command approval...even if not official) in most middle eastern countries. Hell, we had a little scrawny Iraqi dude in a beat up Toyota pick up that would come by the perimeter fence every morning (ostensibly to turn in some random munitions), and sold liquor and beer out of the back (AK's and Markarov's as well).

From what I hear, there's a big break down in the teams' discipline, and those trying to enforce it are getting usurped by a handful of the younger, cockier types. Methinks some "barracks counselling" is order...but that's just me. At least that's how I heard the back story on Gallagher....
 
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#45
pmclaine said:
The Marines initially resisted the rush to Tampa.

The idea, although enviable, it will never be achievable, is that each Marine is SOC.

There has to be a core of people that get the budget and time to train for the strategic missions that call for their skills.

These should not be guys that get it for signing on their first enlistment.

Earn it, want it and make achieving the accomplishment so hard that your pride should prevent you from ever shitting on your reputation.

Sadly the money, the careerism, and the need to lower standards to get bodies to fill the operation tempo is killing the "Special" status.

We shouldnt fight wars ala Rumsfeld with special ops only.

If it is worth going to war. Big Army and all units get involved. Strip Germany Japan and Korea of everything but janitors........

Institute a draft.......

and go to war with a storm of destruction that ends the shit fast.

Let the Line units fight the line.

Keep the Spec Ops guys for strategic decapitations and intelligence.

Army SF needs to fulfill that education role of locals they used to be invested in so as that when the dust settles there are people that know how and are willing to turn our newly made dust into bricks and rebuild their country with some semblance of civility.
Click to expand...
EPIC, and worth repeating.
 
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#46
Fig said:
petitions.whitehouse.gov

The White House

President Biden and Vice President Harris promised to move quickly to deliver results for working families. That’s what they’ve done.
petitions.whitehouse.gov petitions.whitehouse.gov
Click to expand...


Wish they would answer all these things.

Some hit the 100K signature limit but because they are not politically desired petitions they get ignored.

The only ones they seem to answer are those that play to their side.
 
#48
meh dont see a need for them being in Tampa at all, its a distraction from their mission, whatever that might be.

pmclaine said:
The Marines initially resisted the rush to Tampa.

The idea, although enviable, it will never be achievable, is that each Marine is SOC.

There has to be a core of people that get the budget and time to train for the strategic missions that call for their skills.

These should not be guys that get it for signing on their first enlistment.

Earn it, want it and make achieving the accomplishment so hard that your pride should prevent you from ever shitting on your reputation.

Sadly the money, the careerism, and the need to lower standards to get bodies to fill the operation tempo is killing the "Special" status.

We shouldnt fight wars ala Rumsfeld with special ops only.

If it is worth going to war. Big Army and all units get involved. Strip Germany Japan and Korea of everything but janitors........

Institute a draft.......

and go to war with a storm of destruction that ends the shit fast.

Let the Line units fight the line.

Keep the Spec Ops guys for strategic decapitations and intelligence.

Army SF needs to fulfill that education role of locals they used to be invested in so as that when the dust settles there are people that know how and are willing to turn our newly made dust into bricks and rebuild their country with some semblance of civility.
Click to expand...
 
#49
The pussification of the military. Get CNN out formation and either kick ass or come home. It would also be nice to get politically appointed officers out of the equation. You can't make command without kissing a politicians ass and doing it their way.
 
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#50
This is what happens when we let frogmen expand their role to their own level of incompetence. I hear of more SEALs being awarded for valor for fucking up or doing one time what SOG routinely did in Cambodia and Laos for years as commonplace. We raised the level of stupid as well as lowered the bar. It's a fucking disgrace.
 
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