Rifle Scopes seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

[freedomfighter]

Well, I just got a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308. I took it out yesterday to sight it in and was pleased with the rifle. The garbage scope that came on it is another story. I knew it would suck but it was still a good deal so I figured at least I could get shooting while saving for better glass.

So now the issue at hand...mil vs. moa. I'm not looking for an explanation of both persay, I can find that with google easy. From what I can tell, it really doesn't matter which you choose to go with as long as your scope is either mil/mil or moa/moa but if you get a mildot reticle with moa adjustments then you're in for headaches...is that right? The problem is that most of the scopes i'm looking at (400 dollar range) that have a mildot reticle also have moa adjustments, even decent brands like Bushnell Elite and Vortex. I'm really not interested in a BDC scope for the simple fact that...whoever made the scope has no idea what caliber or load i will be shooting so how can the BDC be accurate?

I want to learn to use mildot but will I be scrooged if I get one with moa adjustments? On the other hand...why would so many decent companies make mildot scopes with moa adjustments if that was a bad thing to do? It doesn't make sense.

It would be great if I could just buy a USO or something with mil adjustments and solve the problem there but...uh...the people that owned my house before me took the money tree with them when they moved.

I know that some will say "just save longer and get a Nightforce or something"...well, maybe one day but for now, 400 bucks is it, maaaaybe 500 because the Leupold VX-II or 3s look pretty darn nice.

I really don't want to eff this scope purchase up so any insight into my dilemma is greatly appreciated.

 

[jakermeister]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

try a falcon menace. Got mine for 419 shipped (i think). Theres a few vendors on here that stock them (SWFA). I also made the switch from MOA to MIL and don't plan to go back to MOA any time soon.

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

I have a MilDot scope with 0.25-moa target turrets and don't have any problems. As long as you know what your doing there isn't an issue. I carry a ballistics chart (dope card) with me and dial in the dope that I need to hit a target at a given distance. Yes, under pressure, in combat or competition it's easier to make a mistake trying do the extra math, but for the average guy who is in neither combat or competition, it's not an issue. And think about this, many SWAT teams across the country, and many military units throughout the years have used MilDot scopes with MOA adjustments and more often then not hit their mark without any issues.

 

[gugubica]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

Most people have no use for a mil reticle and honestly, couldn't if they did. Scope manufacturers, more often than not, just include a mildot reticle because consumers think it sounds cool, but still want to see a group 3 inches low and adjust 12 clicks.

If you have no preconcived ideas either way, go ahead and start with mil/mil.

Look at super snipers, weaver, bushnell for low end mil/mil.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people have no use for a mil reticle and honestly, couldn't if they did. Scope manufacturers, more often than not, just include a mildot reticle because consumers think it sounds cool, but still want to see a group 3 inches low and adjust 12 clicks.

If you have no preconcived ideas either way, go ahead and start with mil/mil.

Look at super snipers, weaver, bushnell for low end mil/mil. </div></div>

what he said...
the weaver would be a great starting point with very little cash outlay, that could also be saved for a trainer/22lr/etc...

 

[waynea96]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

I use a Falcon Menace with the EMD reticle that is Mil/Mil. It really helps out knowing that everything you do is in Mils. Make a shot, judge it with reticle and click/or hold for adjustment. There are/were a couple Falcon scopes in the for sale section right now at pretty good prices. You can always pick one up and run it a while then upgrade, or keep it and buy more ammo.

 

[freedomfighter]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

You're probably right about that. I don't want one for cool factor though, I want to learn to estimate range with it, and get good at doing so.

Really, I guess, a mildot reticle with moa adjustments really shouldn't matter because you use the reticle to estimate range then calculate your clicks with the moa formula. That sound right?

I'm probably overthinking this whole thing anyway. I ought to just get a pocket rangefinder and say the hell with it...but where's the fun in that

 

[waynea96]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

Sure, but when your reticle and clicks match, you really don't have to calculate/convert or whatever, just click or hold over. IMO, just gives you less to screw up.

 

[jasonk]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

f-fighter, check your pms.

 

[Chiller]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

mil/mil......FFP

and keep on driving......

no "clicks"
no "conversions"
no "correct power"

Before I purchased my first piece of glass I spent a couple of months sorting it out. Defining wants and needs. Getting behind as much glass as I could.

 

[Swan]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mil/mil......FFP

and keep on driving......

no "clicks"
no "conversions"
no "correct power"

Before I purchased my first piece of glass I spent a couple of months sorting it out. Defining wants and needs. Getting behind as much glass as I could. </div></div>

+1 very wise for his age.

 

[fdkay]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

I have become a mil/mil ffp convertee, but I still have SFP mil/moa scopes.

Unless you are going to be shooting in tactical competitions or using the rifle in a true sniping role than it is really of little consequence.

Mil/MOA scopes were used for MANY years without a problem. Mil/Mil makes it far easier and FFP makes that even easier.

If you are shooting on a known distance range and doing some occasional hunting, a SFP scope will serve you fine.
If you want to learn the mil realtionship formula and apply it, then I highly suggest a mil/mil FFP scope.
+1 on the Falcon Menace, probably the best "learning" tool out there. If you decide that FFP isn't for you, they are easy to sell and you are not out a ton of money.
I really like my falcon menace, but I do lke my IOR even more.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

Find a Samplelist or used SS 3-9 FFP and move out. Great durable, repeatable, utility scope. You don't "need" 20x to shoot 800 yards. It will be well worth it to get a dependable optic to learn with. Falcons offer a lot of features for a low price but they are lacking from my experience. The 2 I tried didn't have consistent elevation adjustments and past 4 mils things went downhill fast. The folks at SWFA back there product with good CS and there SS line is a solid product. I abuse 2 of them often and they keep on tickin.

 

[vman]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

I would have to agree with Chiller on this one.

For an easy to use scope that requires the least amount of brain RAM, mil/mil in First Focal Plane will do you wonders.

You just adjust according to what you see on the reticle... thats if you miss the first time or are off slightly.

 

[KUSA]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: freedomfighter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The problem is that most of the scopes i'm looking at (400 dollar range) that have a mildot reticle also have moa adjustments, even decent brands like Bushnell Elite and Vortex. </div></div>

Check this scope out.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...821#Post1993821
I had the opportunity to look through this very scope and it is darned impressive. I never expected the glass to be as good as it is.

 

[XTR]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

When you get your scope get a "mildot master" it makes it easy, really easy. Mil dot master and a dope card and it's a simple look it up and crank it up.

If you do like I did when I got my first one yrs ago, you sit in the living room looking out the window across the the valley at mailboxes, transformers, fence posts and what not and trying to judge height and then use the mildot to get range.

If you need to walk outside, don't carry the rifle, someone may get upset.

It is really easy, it really does work, and whether it's mil/mil or mil/moa it not as important as it seems here on the boards.

 

[hochung]

Re: seems like the more I read the worse it gets!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: freedomfighter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The garbage scope that came on it is another story. I knew it would suck but it was still a good deal so I figured at least I could get shooting while saving for better glass. </div></div>

Which scope did your rifle come with? What was wrong with it? What made it suck?

Just curious.