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Rifle Scopes Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

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penumbra

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Minuteman
Dec 9, 2008
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#1
i am currently using a Nighforce NXS 12-42X for f-class competition.
i find it is mediocre as far as sharpness and contrast when used at 42X. it is very good up to 25X, but gets soft past that. i also find that eye fatigue (with this scope) is a big problem.

i am looking for an ultra long range (40X, 50X, 60X) scope that's as sharp and clear as i can get (hopefully one that does not cause the eye fatigue).

i am considering Schmidt & Bender 12.5-50X or March 10-60X, or any other scope you suggest.

Please advise and relate your experience with regard to this subject.

thanks.
 
#2
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

I own 2 March 10x60 scopes. When turn all the way up. The tube dia. only doesn't allow enough light through to be as sharp of a image at 25 power. Very good optic but high mag. was lacking in light trans.
I would think the Schmidt and Bender would be the best option out there but it may have the same problem with higher power. It does have a 34 tube which should allow more light.
The March scopes I ended up selling. Great scopes.
 
#3
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

the issue you describe is an the size of the exit pupil at high magnification.

exit pupil diameter (in mm) = objective diameter (in mm) / magnification

for low light conditions, the exit pupil size should be > 5mm (7mm ideally). that would imply that a 50X scope would require at least a 250mm objective. it would absurd to mount such a monstrosity on a rifle.

i can compromise on light transmission but not on magnification and image quality (sharpness, contrast, clarity).
 
#7
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: penumbra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is the 12-50 S&b available in mil/mil configuration (or moa/moa)? </div></div>

IMHO you would want finer then .1MIL adjustments for an F-class Scope.

Good luck

Jerry
 
#9
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S&B mil/mil has .25 cm clicks in this scope. Thats smaller than 1/8 MOA. </div></div>

who would have this glass in stock?
 
#11
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: penumbra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who would have this glass in stock?
</div></div>

Check with Euro Optics or Sport Optics. They might have them or can order them.
 
#13
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

I just got my 12-50x56 S&B from Euro Optics. They had both FFP and SFP scopes available.

FYI the mil/mil version with .025mil clicks is way too fine for me. This scope only has 3.5 mils per turn and 5 turns max. I got the 1/8 moa clicks, 15 moa per turn with 5 turns. The double turn windage is awesome.

Regarding brightness, It is totally useable at 50x but it gets noticeably brighter at 40x.

Also, there is no illumination so they eliminated the reticle break at .8 mil on the cross hairs. It is a solid line with the first tick at 1.0 mil.
 
#15
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

March is one of the clearest and nicest glass. Total weight limit for f-class is 10kgs, about 22lbs. March and SB, either way are very very nice. (but then again, on a side note, most of the top competitors are winning with Nightforce... )
 
#16
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

With higher power scopes of greater than 25 power you are going to get eye fatigue. It effects some more than others but no way around it unless you get a larger objective. US optics can make just about anything and that would be my route if eye fatigue was an issue. I have seen here for sale a USO with a 80mm or larger objective. Just remember the larger you go with the other manufactures the less elevation adjustment. My self I use scopes no higher than 15 power and have had no problem what so ever with anything. The guys with the high power glass 42 and greater complain about mirage, eye fatigue, elevation issues, tracking issues, cheek weld issues, etc.. 15 Power is more than enough for me and makes shooting more enjoyable IMO. I have young eyes and am lucky and one day I might be having to mount a telescope like some of the older guys on their f-class rigs.

Here is the link to the huge USO
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post2361873
Here is the sellers pict:
2ykm6b4.jpg
 
#17
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

In my AO I am seeing allot of Sightron 8X32 and 10X50 scopes, in the winners circle. Not hearing an complaints about eye fatigue. Seeing high X counts by these users.

Good luck

Jerry
 
#19
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

Personally, I can't see why anyone would want a scope over 32x for shooting 600 to 1000 yards. I've shot plenty of 1000 yard matches with a 22x NXS 56mm and it has always been plenty. Most recently, I've been shooting F-class with 15x. Great at 600. Good enough at 1000.

Other than reading mirage, I can't see much use for going over 32x. Out here, mirage gets bad at over 25x anyway.

Simply seeing the target at a higher magnification doesn't mean you'll hit it any better.

-David
Edgewood, NM
 
#20
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

Sometimes looking at the target on higher mag is not a good thing. You start to micro manage your holding. On less mag you get more relax with the shot. I shot a 60power March scope. I ended up finishing the match on 18 power. It seemed that on 60 power. I notice every little heartbeat and movement. Thus did not shoot any better maybe even worst. At 600 yards you really don't need much to shoot a high score..
 
#21
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

I don't know about you guys, but an F-Class target is somewhat difficult for me to make out clearly. The black on black doesn't really help! I found myself holding the center of the whole thing, but I couldn't necessarily quarter the 10 or X ring because the thin white lines didn't offer enough contrast for my eyes.

Also, if you look at what the successful F-Class guys are running it's mostly March and Nightforce; 42X and up.
 
#22
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sometimes looking at the target on higher mag is not a good thing. You start to micro manage your holding. On less mag you get more relax with the shot. I shot a 60power March scope. I ended up finishing the match on 18 power. It seemed that on 60 power. I notice every little heartbeat and movement. Thus did not shoot any better maybe even worst. At 600 yards you really don't need much to shoot a high score.. </div></div>

I noticed that shooting my friends 42 power NXS I could see the cross hairs move with my hear rate.
 
#23
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

Nightforce is the hands-down favorite for F-Class shooters. If that is not good enough for you, I think March and S&B would be the only two others I'd look at. March scopes are super popular with Benchrest shooters first and foremost for their tracking and overall reliability. I'd take a hard look at March first. Also, if you want better clarity, look at some fixed power scopes...like these:
http://www.deon.co.jp/march/Fixed-power.htm
 
#24
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... I notice every little heartbeat and movement... </div></div>

not being able to see your "heartbeat and movement" does not eliminate such.
 
#25
Re: Selecting an Ultra F-Class Scope

magnification in itself is not enough. were it so, my 12-42X NXS would suffice. this scope is fuzzy at 42X (anything above 25X) and induces eye-fatigue.

you can only hit what you can see. i am looking for high-magnification along with brightness, contrast, sharpness (resolving power) and color fidelity (i'll compromise an this last item).

.025 Mil graduation (clicks for elevation/windage) are excellent for long range (if repeatability and tracking are maintained), unless you are comfortable "holding" off zero.
 
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