What stops you from removing yourself from the trust and adding the other person on the trust?
Just curious. Seems like it could even be done without a 4473.
Just curious. Seems like it could even be done without a 4473.
- Thread starter Scwalker83
- Start date
Yes you can change beneficiaries and trustees. That’s why I was wondering what the hell they were doing with 41F. Anybody with a ounce of creativity can manipulate their trusts to work around “their” intent.
Interesting question?
What do some of you lawyers think about this?
What do some of you lawyers think about this?
You don’t need to be a lawyer to know you don’t want to get caught doing this. Be smart, be discreet, don’t post your felonies.
I am no attorney and have never seen a single shot trust but the settlor of the trust is the only one who can change it. So in theory if you are the settlor you can change the trustee to the person you are selling it to but anytime they would want to make any changes you would have to do it and when you die no changes can be made. And I have no idea the law with regards to anything the trust owns.
Hope the gives you the basic idea.
Hope the gives you the basic idea.
You make them a settlor don’t you then they remove you? The last conversation about this I observed there were questions about tax evasion that didn’t get settled.
That may work, did not think about it that way. I will also add that if you did your trust after the change a few years ago and your prints and pictures are associated with it I would pay the $200 tax stamp for them to transfer it into their own deal. NO way do I want to be associated with a NFA item that I am no longer in control of wether transferred legally or not.
People amend trusts all the time. If you can do it for a trust that holds a farm, stocks, houses, why not nfa items. The atf has zero say in the trust laws of any given state. As long as you are in compliance with your state’s respective trust laws, then you are in compliance. I find it of low probability that the ATF would think that they have jurisdiction to disallow any trust properly executed and/or amended.
Heres another example I see all the time that illustrates the issue of an entity owning property; XYZ corporation or LLC owns a set of real property and personal property assets. Often, they just file a certificate of merger and succession with the Secretary of State to change ownership of the entity and all the assets go with it rather than just selling (transferring) the assets directly.
I suspect that you could have a single member LLC which owns one MG34 and simply sell the LLC. There is no form 4 conveyance b/c the LLC still owns the asset. It’s just that Robert now owns the LLC. Is this what the ATF wants; NOPE! Is it probably technically compliant; yes.
The only issue I can possibly see is that if a manager, trustee, officer, etc. has a felony then obviously they should not have access to a firearm.
Heres another example I see all the time that illustrates the issue of an entity owning property; XYZ corporation or LLC owns a set of real property and personal property assets. Often, they just file a certificate of merger and succession with the Secretary of State to change ownership of the entity and all the assets go with it rather than just selling (transferring) the assets directly.
I suspect that you could have a single member LLC which owns one MG34 and simply sell the LLC. There is no form 4 conveyance b/c the LLC still owns the asset. It’s just that Robert now owns the LLC. Is this what the ATF wants; NOPE! Is it probably technically compliant; yes.
The only issue I can possibly see is that if a manager, trustee, officer, etc. has a felony then obviously they should not have access to a firearm.
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