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Gunsmithing Sequence of dialing in an action truing fixture?

BenY 2013

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 23, 2012
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SW Arkansas
So this may be a very stupid question but is there any easy way to dial in a barrel in an action truing fixture? I tried dialing my barrel in today with the one I made and fought it the entire time... I was just wondering if I am missing something? I would love if someone could give me some pointers.

One thing that may be giving me issues is my screws are only 1.125" apart on the fixture. It is a really short one. Less that 3" in overall length. May not matter but I figured it'd be worth mentioning! Thanks

Ben
 
Are you using a range-rod, grizzly rod, or direct reading DTI (or something else I'm not familiar with)? With the DTI, I make a mark on the stylus that represents where the front set of adjustment screws will be with the DTI inserted so that you are reading in the same plane as the screws. This way the back set of screws will have almost no effect on the runout at that point. Then pull the DTI out very close to the muzzle (or breech if setting up for chambering) and use only the back screws. Repeat as necessary.

With grizzly rods, try to do it with the pilot bushing directly under the screws as well. Same concept. With range rods, you're pretty much going to have to fight it every step of the way.
 
OK, I'll take a stab at this. I used to align gas turbine to generator couplings of over 200,000 HP as a young guy, and taught a few millwrights how to do it.

Ok, first thing, get the outboard end close first, that would be the muzzle end if you are chambering. I write with a Sharpie on the spider 1,2,3 and 4, 90 degrees apart and set the zero on the DTI on #1. Next spin it around to #3, and check the offset. If it is say .020, then move it .010, split the difference, roll back to #1 and it should be a lot closer. Repeat same deal for #2 and #4, all on the muzzle end. Move to breech end next.

By whatever means you like, range rods, extended DTI etc, do the same on the breech. Go back to the muzzle after you get close, not dead nuts but close, it will change when you move the opposite end. Go back and forth, between the two, obviously the breech end has larger effect if you are working the chambering operation.

If you are using range rods, then you have to NOT worry about muzzle runout. It takes only TWO points to define a line, three ( muzzle and taper/slant on the rod ) are three. Get the breech straight and square, and go forth.

FWIW, the best BR smith I know, zeros the muzzle, the neck of the breech and prebores the chamber. 2 1/2 World Championships in a row, in that game, is good enough for me. By zero though, I do mean zero, 2 tenths or less measured on the grooves.

Also FWIW, he also cut his baby teeth zeroing large rotating machinery....... 24" diameter couplings, driving tens and hundreds of thousands of shaft HP. This stuff is pretty simple, but it does take a bit of practice. If you make a move with the part, and the DTI shows a different, unexpected result, you did something wrong, or your setup is bogus.

Hope this helps, good luck.
 
Right now I am just using ground pins. Do I need to get one of the grizzly rods? My issue was I would get it quite close on the end I was working on. Then I'd look at the unsupported end that is in the headstock and it was no where near running true. That is what had me concerned the most. That is the whole reason I decided on this fixture! I think I just need to learn it more and spend more time with it from what I am reading.

Ben
 
Me, I don't like unsupported ends, they tend to "tune up" and I don't get as good a cut on the working end. Work support has a lot to do with finish and precision, I try to go with a 3 or 6 jaw Set-tru on the chuck end, plus a spider setup on the off side. With a short barrel, I will use a spider at both ends if I need to, with a REAL short barrel, I'll forgo the off side spider, and just use the chuck. I may make a quick and dirty spacer to set the muzzle end as close as I can in the spindle, then just true the bore where the neck will be. Let's be honest here, the runout at that point is in the tenths, not perfect but pretty close.

I'm not a fan of the rods, of any kind. I like the direct reading DI. To each his own though.
 
Right now I am just using ground pins. Do I need to get one of the grizzly rods? My issue was I would get it quite close on the end I was working on. Then I'd look at the unsupported end that is in the headstock and it was no where near running true. That is what had me concerned the most. That is the whole reason I decided on this fixture! I think I just need to learn it more and spend more time with it from what I am reading.

Ben

There's a video floating around by Gordy Gritters that I can't seem to find on youtube, but in it, he demonstrates his truing procedure prior to chambering and after it's all set up and ready to go at the breech end, he pans over to the muzzle end to show how much it's flopping around. I think he measured it at almost 1/8 inch.

Basically, you're going to have some wander in the bore with respect to the OD of the barrel. It is impossible to get 2 or 3 inches of bore dialed in on one end and not have some runout on the opposite end. Just true up the muzzle end and ignore the other until it's time to crown or thread; then flip the barrel, true up the muzzle and ignore the breech end.
 
ben i think a fixture that you're trying to dial a barrel of any length into coaxial aligment with screws only 1 1/8" apart is not that supporttive overall and gets you a very small purchase on barrel material. i would want something at least around 3-4" maybe more.

that said. put your barrel in the fixture. run your live center up and pick up on the bore lightly. run your forward screws in to contact. that end will be very close now. i run one of the back screws put at 6oclock in until the barrel looks straight. run the rest in until light contact. start rough indicating with a .001 indicator on your rod or on a bushing in the barrel.

once you have it all dialed in. whatever end is hanging out the back is going to more then likely look like a hula hoop unlees you have to get a really straight barrel. rare....

thats my .002
 
I dial off the grooves only. Biggest advice I have for you is not to force it. It's hard to explain but when it comes together you won't have to fight it. I also use the lathe chuck to hold the barrel.
 
So you guys are saying as long as I can get the barrel dialed in at the muzzle (where I am doing the work) with the ground pins at two points on the pin. Then I should not worry so much about the unsupported end inside of the headstock? That makes more sense as the bore is far from straight from what I read! I really appreciate the replies!

Ben