Sheep Gun Build Help

[oubeta]

I'm wanting to build an ultra light weight sheep gun for my Alaska hunt coming up and looking for some ideas.
I still haven't decided on a caliber, but I'm thinking 6.5 SAUM?
My goal is to be around 5.5lbs or less without optics.
I would love to be able to use a suppressor so we don't run the rest of the herd out of the valley. How thin can you go on the barrel with the new Harvester can? I didn't see anything on their website about how their adapters worked. It would be nice to have that option, but not a must have if it's going to add a lot of overall weight to the gun.
I was thinking you could get away with a #3 and still use it somehow.
Still not sold on the carbon barrels. I've heard a lot of negative things about them in general. Some shoot great, but that's the exception from what I hear.



I was thinking about using the parts below:

-Remington titanium action or an Xtreme Action (any other ideas?)
-#2 or #3 barrel fluted with VAIS style brake (possible a proof research carbon?)
-Manners MCS-EH2 (25oz) or Proof Research Lone Wolf (13oz)?
-Bottom metal? Suggestions (detachable mag be too heavy?)

Any suggestions or comments?

Thanks

 

[strike33]

Pierce Titanium Action
The Proof Research Carbon barrel seems to be rewriting the story of the carbon fiber barrels...don't count it out. Lowlight is reporting great results

 

[Fuerte]

Not sure about a build, but check out Match Grade Arms. They make ultra light rifles. Might give you some ideas...

http://www.mgarmsinc.com/MGA-UltraLight-Rifle.html

 

[oubeta]

Pierce Titanium Action
The Proof Research Carbon barrel seems to be rewriting the story of the carbon fiber barrels...don't count it out. Lowlight is reporting great results

Just spoke with the guys at 'Proof'. Sounds like I can get a Sendero contour barrel threaded 5/8th's for less weight than a #3 sporter if I understood him correctly.
You wouldn't have to worry about having enough meat to thread on the #2 & #3's. Sounds like a winner if they shoot like they say.

He said they have a barrel coming out for the M107 also. This would be a game changer. They are also looking at full auto barrels for the Mk43, and the 249

 

[idaho1]

Some personal thoughts.....

I would trim weight in your build but not to the extreme you are considering. For me, having done a build as you describe, and would not recommend it for a one in a lifetime sheep tag. For me, shooting a ultralight rifle with precision, consistently at ranges you might wish to try.... >500 yards in Mountainous terrain is a much greater challenge than one might expect. Again, my experience only but I have hunted some brutally steep country, and have been lucky enough to bag some awesome trophy's over the years, including a B&C Bighorn. I'm 51 now and if I thought a lightweight rifle would shoot with the same precision under field conditions as my current (ten pounds with a March scope) rifle, I would do it in a heartbeat but I dont think it will so I dont. My ultralight, premium everything rifle would shoot 1/2 MOA at the range with a cool barrel but it was hard to"drive" the rifle under field conditions and long range precision suffered as a result.
Thoughts on the suppressor.... build a rifle that gives you the confidence to kill the critter with the first shot. If you have ever been cross-range from a shot fired from a suppressed rifle, the supersonic scream of the bullet ripping through the air is a terrifying sound. Elk at least dont seem to care when a random shot goes off. My buddy, a outfitter in Hells Canyon Idaho says...."its thunder in the mountains to them".

My current mountain rifle:
Manners carbon fiber Mt2 non adjustable
Pierce titanium long action
Broughton 5C 5.75 contour fluted 24"
300 wm chambered for Berger 215's
NF Ultralight rings with a MarchFX
Huber 2 stage trigger 3#
8.9# 1 moa at 1000 yards with a backpack on a log.
Just my 2 cents

 

[psinclair]

Urltra light centerfire rifles are way over rated IMO...it's not easy, or enjoyable shooting a high intensity round like a 6.5 SAUM in a rifle under 8.5lbs, or so.

My next sheep hunt will find me carrying my GAP Extreme Hunter @ nine pounds all up.

Lighten up your backpack a bit and go with a little heavier rifle.

 

[SPAK]

My past sheep/goat rifles weighed in at 10lbs loaded up. My next "light weight mountain rifle" will weigh in at about 9.5lbs.

if I'm going to save weight it's not going to come off the rifle...I'll cut weight off my body during pre-hunt training and my pack gear.

Agree, ultralight for the mountains is over rated...

 

[Wyfox]

I've been on several backcountry sheep and elk hunts, the quintessential light weight mountain rifle is over rated.
Like Pat stated above stick with a rifle that comes in at 8.5-9# scoped and you'll be much happier with it, especially if you plan on shooting longer ranges. The 6.5 saum sounds like good sheep medicine, I've got 2 being built now and look forward to trying it out.

 

[Prebanpaul]

Weatherby ultralight in 257 Weatherby . Be carefull with break a lot of guides do not like you using them.

 

[alpine44]

From my experience in the Alps, a rifle in calibers like 300WM or 6.5x68 (similar in performance to the 6.5 SAUM) should weigh no less than 8-10lbs if you want to have any consistency under field conditions. Even the best rifle builder cannot defeat the physics of recoil.

What helped in our experience (way before tactical rifles became popular) was to ditch the open sights and have a stock with little drop for scope use only. Shifting the CG as much forward as possible with a light stock/action and heavier barrel also seemed beneficial. Also a generous eye relief, so you do not tense up in fear of a scope kiss.

 

[66427vette]

Urltra light centerfire rifles are way over rated IMO...it's not easy, or enjoyable shooting a high intensity round like a 6.5 SAUM in a rifle under 8.5lbs, or so.

My next sheep hunt will find me carrying my GAP Extreme Hunter @ nine pounds all up.

Lighten up your backpack a bit and go with a little heavier rifle.

Nailed it!

 

[Akhunter907]

Well, I know not giving much direction either, but my sheep rifle currently weighs 10.5. I'm looking to trim it to 9.5 or so in an alternate stock. But for me a minimum weight sheep rifle is 9 all in.

Many other places to shave weight than the one piece of equipment you will ultimately make or break your success. Look at packs first, many lightweight options out there, do not be satisfied with a 10 plus pound pack, sleeping bag, 32 degree down has been fine for all my august sheep hunts.

Assuming you will be guided, look at shared weight, only need on spotting scope between 2 folks, stove, shelter, etc.

Heaviest thing you will carry is food, 1-1.5 pounds a day is what I shoot for. But the best thing about that, is you are loosing a bit of weight with every bite!

Finally clothes, besides socks, I can put on every stitch of clothing in my pack at once. Not the place or hunt to have luxuries like changes of clothing. But lots of differences in weight of things like pants and outerwear,

I love to hunt sheep, wish success to you whichever way you go

 

[ridein4life]

Lex Webernick of Rifles Inc. makes an amazingly light unit called the "Titanium Strata" that ranges in caliber all the way up into 300 mag, and weighs an amazing 4.5lbs. Its platform is the Titanium Remington 700. If your looking to build yourself he has the rough specs of them on his website. figured it might be worth checking out. Rifles Inc. - Rifle Models

 

[SharpsNitro]

I built a rifle similar to what you are targeting. Mine is a 280AI on a Ti M700 action, MPI pounder stock and a 24" barrel duplicating the factory, thin, contour but run to 24" instead of 22". Final un-scoped weight was 4lbs 13oz. To hit your weight target bottom metal will have to go and the barrel will likely need shaving down. Mine is accurate but challenging to shoot well due to the light weight. I built it just to do it and it seemed like a good idea for a backcountry Tahr hunt in NZ. My other hunting rifle is a nice pre-64 M70 in an MPI stock in 300H&H, this rifle shoots really well - on the order of 1/2 MOA. I'm currently selling the M70 but think keeping it and selling the M700 may be the better choice because it's easier to shoot.

 

[Hawk45]

Tikka T3 Stainless in 7mmRM or 300WM. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[psinclair]

My last Dall Sheep. Taken with a nine pound rifle with a wood stock....grin!

 

[mkollman74]

Urltra light centerfire rifles are way over rated IMO...it's not easy, or enjoyable shooting a high intensity round like a 6.5 SAUM in a rifle under 8.5lbs, or so.

My next sheep hunt will find me carrying my GAP Extreme Hunter @ nine pounds all up.

Lighten up your backpack a bit and go with a little heavier rifle.

Listen to this guy ^^^^^

 

[SBC]

My past sheep/goat rifles weighed in at 10lbs loaded up. My next "light weight mountain rifle" will weigh in at about 9.5lbs.

if I'm going to save weight it's not going to come off the rifle...I'll cut weight off my body during pre-hunt training and my pack gear.

Agree, ultralight for the mountains is over rated...

Agreed^^^^
Were talking 4 lbs ish of difference, I think almost everyone can shave that off their body much easier than a rifle, and for me I have way more than that I wish I could get rid of.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Easy way to save weight it forgo the bottom metal for blind magazine. That 6.5 SAUM would be the bees knees for sheep--especially since guided and not worried about mr. Brownie wandering through camp. Most sheep county will also have brown bears at least down at camp levels, and would want more than 6.5 to deter them--but again, that's what your guides for unless you'll have a tag as well. If brownies on the possible menu, I'd do a 300wm.

Sure you've been over there--if not I'd certainly check out Alaska outdoor forums--there is a while hoard of folks on there that eat/sleep/train/gear shave for sheep season 24/7/365. My FIL is a registered guide and my wife and her sister have far more sheep experience than I--but looking through albums of successful hunts from 70's through present day, most were taken with regular hunting weight sporting rifles in 270, 300 or 338 win mags.

Get a rifle that will make you happy and add to the enjoyment of your hunt. It's beautiful county up here--and check out the Alaska forums, you find everything from what rifle to the lightest toilet paper for sheep.

 

[Akhunter907]

Toilet paper? What sheep hunter packs that.... for sure kidding. But you mentioned it....you are looking for the stuff that's septic "friendly" light as air and then the sheep hunters best friend. The wet - wipe. Again only septic friendly. Better for leaving out too

But in all serious, best place to look for weight is yourself. I took two years off of sheep and I'm sweating it for this fall. I have a long ways to go and the trails just opened up here. Being in the best shape possible is my best advice. You will be safer and hopefully more successful. Sheep live in steep stuff. No s. But 1000-2000 vertical feet is the order for most day's and you might have that in in just a mile walking . And while side hilling is great, it takes a toll. Put all the energy you want into building a rifle and 4 times more into prepping yourself. I'd find real stairs to train. On. It's not just the up that works you. It's the down too

Sorry for the rant. But the topic of building a lightweight sheep rifle always peeks my interest because I kind of see the wrong question being asked. I'm sticking by 10 pounds is the perfect weight. I owned a 6.5 pound "sheep" rifle. Maybe I'm not the greatest shot but it was at best a 300 yard rifle in my hands

and I'd leave the suppressor at home. Funny thing about sheep is they are kind of like turkeys. One falls they tend to stick around. We aren't talking heavily pursued whitetails. Bit of a group mentality

And to psinclair. Dang nice ram! II'll guess 39 and 13 base and 10yr

 

[45.308]

Here is my opinion from experience, take it or leave it its not my trip or money. Light is right, lighter is righter and lightest in rightest.

What unit? If you hunt the Wrangells then you will understand what I am saying about weight, those who have know, those who haven't do not know to include weather, I have seen 15" of snow in Sept over iced up rock. Brooks is moderate. Alaska Range is quite tuff. Gach can be too depending. There are more but these are the most known.

The very #1 thing I know about clients who come to Alaska to play is, they come ill prepared in body and mind.

Best advice is to train your body. Ride a bicycle with high resistance that will simulate the short power strokes of ascending steep terrain. Climb stairs. Do sprints up hill. Intervals of a slow jog with 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile sprint then jog another sprint, do not rest, keep the body moving. Carry a heavy pack around when you can. Your body will need to recover quickly from high exertion to include amp up from the stalk so the less your lungs suck air, the less your head pounding, the less your heart feels like it will pound out of your chest the better your shot placement will be. Stop drinking coffee if you do 2 full weeks before leaving on your trip to drain the body of caffeine so now when you drink that cup, it is magic in the body. Sip fluid every 15-30 mins, snack every 30 mins.

Mind control, 3 hours up a scree slope will dull the mind even if your body is fit. LSOD long slow over distance like a 3 hour or more hike run bike will help train the mind for this boring high exertion output. Attitude, come prepared that not everything will go smooth. I have had clients mad at simple things like broken show lace, rip in their high dollar jacket and for those who fall and smash that $3000 rifle into the scree, advice is, it happens. During our day, I would stop a few times for a shake down and give some useless beta on Alaska and tell my charge (what clients are called in Alaska) to look around, breath, relax, look at G-ds creation in the greatest nation on earth. Enjoy not only this trip but life as most people on earth will never see or witness what you are, do feel blessed.

Looks like you are a flat lander and have you ever been to altitude? Some bodies adapt some do not. Good thing your altitude ascent should be slow unless Paul drops you off from sea level at 6000 feet where it may take a couple days to recover and I will say, some clients just could not adjust to altitude. Diamox in the pack.

Suppressor, too much weight and not needed, why would you worry about scatter, one clean shot and a possible follow up on a curler is all you need then its love me picture time. Sheep are fairly stupid.

Caliber, again my advice from experience I recommend a caliber available on the shelf. I have seen more than one duffle show up with no ammo. Pet loads in a river. Of course there are those who will rebut this and that is fine but for a trip that someone has spent a good allotment of coin on, place as many odds in your favor.

Things to consider; if hunting the Wrangells or the Range, give thought into plastic boots with Invernos what I used and recommend. I have used them all and these have best fit and performance. Need help, I could write a small novel on them. Trekking pole is worth its weight in mountain money. Forty Below or Parbat camp booties, one piece of gear that I had to have for a few ounces of decompression from the day.

As far as super high speed action and rifle, can not help much. I carried a Wby light weight hunter in 340Wby topped with Leupold fixed 3x Alaskan scope, simple sling. Tipped the scales around 8# but is a hell bender on both ends. Now, I like Tikka T3 SS and the new compact is right at 5# that reported to be in country August. But these are mundane to many.

As always, ask your guide for help, give him your thoughts and let him steer you, not the internet but playing in AK is a topic that is fun to address.

 

[oubeta]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up going with an X-Treme Ti action, Proof Research 22" carbon fiber barrel (threaded), Manners elite, Rem trigger, blind magazine. I'm either going to put a Premier Lite Tactical or a night force 2.5-10 x 42mm scope on it. I'll post the weight as soon it's all put together.

My dilemma right now is what caliber to go with. I really want to go with the 6.5-SAUM, but I'm not for certain that anyone will ever make brass for this caliber. I barely have time to load my ammo for matches so I know why won't have time to make my own brass for the SAUM. Copper Creek is out of the SAUM brass right now. Since I've already ordered the barrel in .264, I'm pretty much stuck with it.
The 6.5 Creedmoor would be fine for Alaska and Dall sheep, but my hope was that it could be a dual purpose gun and possibly take a grizzly bear if the opportunity arose. The SAUM isn't the ideal grizz caliber by any means, but with proper shot placement and that much velocity it would probably work in a pinch. I've guided numerous grizzly bear hunts and I've seen guys take 9'+ bears with a 260 before, but most of them took several shots to finish them off. I wish I would have ordered the proof research barrel in .30 cal now.

 

[trauma1]

Urltra light centerfire rifles are way over rated IMO...it's not easy, or enjoyable shooting a high intensity round like a 6.5 SAUM in a rifle under 8.5lbs, or so.

My next sheep hunt will find me carrying my GAP Extreme Hunter @ nine pounds all up.

Lighten up your backpack a bit and go with a little heavier rifle.

Damn straight! You make so much noise sliding/climbing on shake rock, the shot report is the last thing that will determine w success. If you have a base camp then travel out w/ necessities only. When you are tired and have to make a calculate long range shot that you have just invested thousands if dollars on, you better have total confidence in your weapon as well as yourself. Not be confident in how light it is.

 

[trauma1]

Here is my opinion from experience, take it or leave it its not my trip or money. Light is right, lighter is righter and lightest in rightest.

What unit? If you hunt the Wrangells then you will understand what I am saying about weight, those who have know, those who haven't do not know to include weather, I have seen 15" of snow in Sept over iced up rock. Brooks is moderate. Alaska Range is quite tuff. Gach can be too depending. There are more but these are the most known.

The very #1 thing I know about clients who come to Alaska to play is, they come ill prepared in body and mind.

Best advice is to train your body. Ride a bicycle with high resistance that will simulate the short power strokes of ascending steep terrain. Climb stairs. Do sprints up hill. Intervals of a slow jog with 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile sprint then jog another sprint, do not rest, keep the body moving. Carry a heavy pack around when you can. Your body will need to recover quickly from high exertion to include amp up from the stalk so the less your lungs suck air, the less your head pounding, the less your heart feels like it will pound out of your chest the better your shot placement will be. Stop drinking coffee if you do 2 full weeks before leaving on your trip to drain the body of caffeine so now when you drink that cup, it is magic in the body. Sip fluid every 15-30 mins, snack every 30 mins.

Mind control, 3 hours up a scree slope will dull the mind even if your body is fit. LSOD long slow over distance like a 3 hour or more hike run bike will help train the mind for this boring high exertion output. Attitude, come prepared that not everything will go smooth. I have had clients mad at simple things like broken show lace, rip in their high dollar jacket and for those who fall and smash that $3000 rifle into the scree, advice is, it happens. During our day, I would stop a few times for a shake down and give some useless beta on Alaska and tell my charge (what clients are called in Alaska) to look around, breath, relax, look at G-ds creation in the greatest nation on earth. Enjoy not only this trip but life as most people on earth will never see or witness what you are, do feel blessed.

Looks like you are a flat lander and have you ever been to altitude? Some bodies adapt some do not. Good thing your altitude ascent should be slow unless Paul drops you off from sea level at 6000 feet where it may take a couple days to recover and I will say, some clients just could not adjust to altitude. Diamox in the pack.

Suppressor, too much weight and not needed, why would you worry about scatter, one clean shot and a possible follow up on a curler is all you need then its love me picture time. Sheep are fairly stupid.

Caliber, again my advice from experience I recommend a caliber available on the shelf. I have seen more than one duffle show up with no ammo. Pet loads in a river. Of course there are those who will rebut this and that is fine but for a trip that someone has spent a good allotment of coin on, place as many odds in your favor.

Things to consider; if hunting the Wrangells or the Range, give thought into plastic boots with Invernos what I used and recommend. I have used them all and these have best fit and performance. Need help, I could write a small novel on them. Trekking pole is worth its weight in mountain money. Forty Below or Parbat camp booties, one piece of gear that I had to have for a few ounces of decompression from the day.

As far as super high speed action and rifle, can not help much. I carried a Wby light weight hunter in 340Wby topped with Leupold fixed 3x Alaskan scope, simple sling. Tipped the scales around 8# but is a hell bender on both ends. Now, I like Tikka T3 SS and the new compact is right at 5# that reported to be in country August. But these are mundane to many.

As always, ask your guide for help, give him your thoughts and let him steer you, not the internet but playing in AK is a topic that is fun to address.

That is the absolute best Sheep prep I have ever heard!!!!
Suppressor is waste.
It is about the journey not the sheep in the end.
I also brought a write in rain notebook and kept notes about the little things that made the journey.
Remover you will spend more time glassing for sheep than looking thru the scope. The rifle is just one tool in the whole journey..
When hunters discuss their sheep hunts 98% of the conversation is about the journey 2% is about the weapon and the shot.
Never guide the guide & eat when they tell you to!
I hope you have an amazing adventure!

 

[oubeta]

I guided in AK for 4 years and spent a lot if time in sheep country. I'd fly a group in, hunt for 7 days, shower in river, repeat,, for months on end. I guided mostly grizz bear and moose.
I have a .300wm I typically use, but just wanting to try something different and see how light I can built a gun. I've got my pack load crazy light, but just doesn't make sense to count oz's in my pack when I'm carrying a 10lb gun.

 

[BC 6.8]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up going with an X-Treme Ti action, Proof Research 22" carbon fiber barrel (threaded), Manners elite, Rem trigger, blind magazine. I'm either going to put a Premier Lite Tactical or a night force 2.5-10 x 42mm scope on it. I'll post the weight as soon it's all put together.

My dilemma right now is what caliber to go with. I really want to go with the 6.5-SAUM, but I'm not for certain that anyone will ever make brass for this caliber. I barely have time to load my ammo for matches so I know why won't have time to make my own brass for the SAUM. Copper Creek is out of the SAUM brass right now. Since I've already ordered the barrel in .264, I'm pretty much stuck with it.
The 6.5 Creedmoor would be fine for Alaska and Dall sheep, but my hope was that it could be a dual purpose gun and possibly take a grizzly bear if the opportunity arose. The SAUM isn't the ideal grizz caliber by any means, but with proper shot placement and that much velocity it would probably work in a pinch. I've guided numerous grizzly bear hunts and I've seen guys take 9'+ bears with a 260 before, but most of them took several shots to finish them off. I wish I would have ordered the proof research barrel in .30 cal now.

You may want to look at the 264 Win mag or the 6.5x284 Norma.