Shooting a 10/22

[TonyAngel]

Well, I've recently been bitten by the rimfire bug. I had some friends at my range pestering me about shooting the Saturday matches over there, so I finally decided to give it a try. I told them that I had a 10/22 to shoot the match with and they all told me that I couldn't do it with a 10/22.

I really wish that they hadn't put it that way. Of course, I had to prove them wrong. I dug my old 10/22 out, threw a Kidd 18" barrel on it, added a Kidd bolt, Kidd two stage trigger and a Boyd's Tacticool stock. I also had a PST 6-24X50 so I threw that on top. It's shooting good, but I'm having a few problems getting my style down.

First I should say that I shoot the match from a bipod. They said it wouldn't work, so I had to try it. The match we shoot is at 50 yards and the ammo is distributed by the range on the morning of the match. We're shooting Wolf Match Target and everyone is shooting the same lot number. We're shooting at the standard (I believe) ARA targets. The ones where the 100 ring is the size of a dime. This past weekend was my third try and I shot a 6750 out of a possible 7500. It was my best so far.

My problem is this. I've noticed that the guys shooting the Annie and 40X bolt guns are free recoiling their rifles. This does not work for the 10/22. I'm feeling like I have to have a monster grip on the gun. When I shoot, I grip it firmly to stop any lateral movement, I pull it into my shoulder tight to keep the bolt slamming forward from disturbing anything and then I push forward on the bipod. On top of all of that I have keep track of my breathing. If I slip on anything, it'll throw the shot out of the 100 ring.

Have any of you guys developed a knack for shooting the 10/22 that doesn't involve all of the above? Is all of the above necessary because I didn't set something up right? I'm just looking for an easier way. With 75 rounds being fired, I'm getting really tired at around the 50 round mark.

Thanks.

 

[Cactus Kid]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

My 10/22 cannot be free recoil eighther,

I switched to sandbags front and rear and it shoots much much better

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

What about when you switch magazines. I have ten mags. Of the ten, I have three with which the rifle will shoot to point of zero. The others all make the gun shoot to a different point of impact. The groups are tight. They just hit about 1/4 to 1/2 and inch off.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

What does the barrel do with Eley or RWS ammo? It very well could be that your barrel doesn't like the Wolf they are forcing you to shoot.

My 10/22 is set up pretty similar to yours with a 20" KIDD, VQ trigger parts and a Weaver T-24 and using Eley, Federal GM Ultra Match or R50 my 10/22 would shoot with my 40X at 50 yards without a problem with moderate pressure.

I would definately get off the bipod with the Tacticool though. The stocks are great; but they still flex under bipod load (at least mine does) which means that unless you have exactly the same pressure everytime - things will be different (you know that though since you touched on it). Try the sand bags.

Also try an underbarrel support... a piece of rubber band that you can move to several positions to see if it changes (better or worse). My personal gun doesn't need to be bedded - it shoots too good the only things that could happen are bad. Yours may vary.

I have not noticed any POI from magazine to magazine.

 

[BuellX1]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

I sold my 10/22 to get bolt gun best thing i ever did accuracy it alot better

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

If I sold the 10/22 to get a bolt gun, that would kind of defeat the purpose, wouldn't it. That is to prove that the match can be shot and won with a 10/22. I know that my rifle is capable of it, I just need to get the bugs out, hence the reason for this thread.

The only match ammo I've run through the rifle is Wolf Match. That's the only ammunition that I need the rifle to shoot well.

I'm glad to know that someone else didn't have any luck free recoiling the 10/22. I think the problem is in my setup. After having done a bunch of research, I had convinced myself that I NEEDED to bed the first three inches of barrel, so I did. Now that I've looked a bit more, I see that most match stocks have the barrel free floated. So...I just went and totally free floated the barrel. I'll see if that does anything for me. I'll then try the rubber band trick. I've never heard of that one before.

Thanks.

 

[rlepage]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

I bedded the barrel and free floated the receiver on my 10/22. It's in a Hogue Overmolded stock.

As for the POI changing with mags, check to make sure the mags aren't hitting the underside of the bolt.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I sold the 10/22 to get a bolt gun, that would kind of defeat the purpose, wouldn't it. That is to prove that the match can be shot and won with a 10/22. I know that my rifle is capable of it, I just need to get the bugs out, hence the reason for this thread.

The only match ammo I've run through the rifle is Wolf Match. That's the only ammunition that I need the rifle to shoot well.

I'm glad to know that someone else didn't have any luck free recoiling the 10/22. I think the problem is in my setup. After having done a bunch of research, I had convinced myself that I NEEDED to bed the first three inches of barrel, so I did. Now that I've looked a bit more, I see that most match stocks have the barrel free floated. So...I just went and totally free floated the barrel. I'll see if that does anything for me. I'll then try the rubber band trick. I've never heard of that one before.

Thanks. </div></div>


TonyAngel,

The 10/22 barrel needs to be supported by the stock because the barrel is not threaded into the receiver unless you have had this done by a gunsmith or have a Kidd or other custom receiver that the barrel threads into directly. My 10/22T barrel would literally fall out of the receiver if the V-Block (barrel clamp) were not installed. The lack of a solid connection between the barrel and receiver allows these parts to move around in relationship to one another which also allows the bolt face to enter battery out of square with the barrel all of which conspires to causes mysterious POI shifts and fliers.

The other serious problem of the above lack of solid connection between the barrel and action is vertical barrel sag or barrel droop. This is less of an issue for those shooting at traditional .22LR ranges 25 and 50 yards. But this severely limits scope alignment reducing the range of elevation the scope can achieve for people who actually shoot their 22LRs past 50 yards.

If you actually get the receiver and barrel threaded to each other a new problem is created, the receiver cannot support the barrel because there is no rear action bolt holding the receiver in the stock unless of course you have a Kidd or other custom 10/22 receiver that does AND a very solid stock like a McMillan that has the room and the meat to be inlet for a the rear tang. Aries64 has a custom SS MOA 10/22 action with a 20" Kidd barrel screwed into it that has been set back with a match chamber sitting in a McMillan glass stock inlet for the rear tang, Kidd 2-stage trigger and IIRC a VQ bolt and a S&B 5-25 PMII CCW scope.

Aries64's custom 10/22 is why I own a 10/22T today. His custom 10/22 shoots like a center fire rifle with accurate hits to 300 yards and on a calm air day 400 yard targets are not a problem. You may not want to invest this much in your 10/22 but they can be made to shoot as well as a very good center fire rifle if you are willing to develop it.

Anyway the point is that a stock Ruger 10/22 receiver cannot support the barrel well enough without some help which is why all Ruger factory stocks use a pressure point in the stock forearm to support the barrel in the forearm barrel channel. Some people have had good results free floating much of their barrel by bedding the first few inches of the barrel and the area around the front receiver screw. I have not tried this yet but I'm about to try it. Currently I'm using a Bell and Carlson tactical/target stock and it supports the barrel at the front of the receiver and at the tip of the forearm of the stock. This can be made to work very well if you have a torque driver to torque the single action screw repeatably into the stock so you can get the same POI after removing the stock from the action.

My personal 10/22T is sitting in B&C's Target/Varmint AJ32 stock and has been upgraded with: Kidd two-stage trigger w/receiver pin kit, Kidd CNC bolt w/bolt buffer, Kidd bolt cocking assembly (guide spring, hardened guide rod, improved cocking handle). To top off this rifle a Falcon 5-25x56 FFP scope sits in Seekins low rings clamped to an EGW 20MOA picatiny base. This hot rodded 10/22T is not as accurate shooting as Aries64's completely custom MOA based stainless steel 10/22 but it's pretty close. FYI much of my shooting at the range with the 10/22T is off a Harris bipod mounted on the front sling stud and the B&C stock seems plenty stiff enough to support shooting off a bipod without any issues. I'm thinking about clearancing the barrel channel to free float the factory heavy 10/22T barrel and see how it does with a does with a careful bedding job of the first 3" of barrel, front of the action and possibly the rear of the trigger housing to help stabilize the action in the stock.

HTH!

 

[frog5215]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

So my 21 1/2" 20 year Clark floated 100" a fluke?
It is bedded, but has mounting.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

Man,as time goes on, I'm really learning that there is a lot to making a 10/22 shoot. I am running a Kidd barrel and the barrel was a press fit into the receiver. A loose fit is not something that I'm having a problem with. I have the V-block tightened just enough to keep the barrel from creeping forward under fire.

I did have to toy around with the bedding a LOT to find something that worked for me. As it turned out, I stripped out my action screw hole messing with the torque on the screw. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I just used a 1/4-20 tap to re-cut the threads and used a larger screw. Then, I made a bedding pillar out of brass. Now, when you tighten down on the screw, it hits bottom and stops. There's no guessing about torque values. After I installed the pillar, I bedded the lug and built up sort of a recoil lug. I don't know if it does anything, but it was easy enough to do, so I did it.

After bedding the lug, I then bedded the action into the stock. I only did about the last 1" of the action. Once that was done, I bedded the first 4" of barrel in front of the lug.

I took it out to shoot yesterday and was tearing my hair out. We had a pretty stiff wind, but still, it seemed to be pretty consistent, but I couldn't hit crap. Then one of the guys that works at the range mentioned that the range is sitting in what is essentially a bowl. I ran inside and grabbed a couple of flags. Wouldn't you know it. This was my problem all along. I set one flag out at 10 yards, and one at about 40 yards. There was one point where the 10 yard flag was facing north and the flag at 40 was sitting there spinning. I just waited until the wind either died down, or just waiting for both flags to be facing the same way and VOILA. It all came together.

Thanks for all of the help.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

Great to hear it. 10/22s are a heck of a lot of fun once they are up and running right.

 

[Situation Normal]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

When a person sets in a quest to achieve the same accuracy as a bolt gun from a 10/22 it usually ends up being an obsession of sorts. I'm looking forward to hearing about your win during the Saturday match.

 

[fuzzyjoe]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

I love my 10/22

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

I don't know about winning the next match. I've shot five of them so far. When I shot my first, I was in "B" class. They put me in "B" because I was new, but they new that I could shoot ok. I'm now in A class where all of the guys are shooting Annies and 40Xs. I'm going to have to shoot 7100s and better just to stay competitive.

A couple of days ago, I kind of decided that using the bipod isn't going to do, inspite of my initial intentions. So...I'm going to see how far I can take the 10/22. I figure that I'll need to start shooting off of a rest, so I made the top portion over the last couple of days. I still need to find a bottom for it. The design of it reflects a bit of thinking out of the box, so I'll have to test it before I post anything more about it.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

pics dangit!

 

[Inline6]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

Tony
I have shot that match with a 10/22 have broke over 7k in points. You are not going to win with a 10/22 I hate to say it. It's not the gun holding you back its the ammo. Unless you luck up and they have a lot your gun loves it's not going to happen. When I was able to shoot the ammo I brought it was a different gun. I hope to make a match in the next few weeks hope to see you there.

Bryan

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

Bryan, we probably know each other by face. I've been going to Nick's on a weekly basis for a while now.

Anyway, I really like the 10/22 and would like to see how far I can take it. I think I've mentioned it before, but I am shooting the match using a bipod. I did manage to shoot a 6900, this past weekend. It seems that I improve a bit each week. I went last Sunday to do some practicing and decided to do some work reading the wind and it made a lot of difference.

I understand what Nick was trying to do when he made it a rule that everyone shoot Wolf MT, but guys are showing up with Annies and really tricked out 40Xs anyway. What I'd really like to see is a match where we could run any ammo that we wanted to. This Kidd barrel that I got shoots really well. During a moment of calm in the wind, I shot a five shot group that measured something like .35" edge to edge. Of course, the upside to Nick's rule is that I don't have to worry about discovering that my rifle really likes the stuff that costs $16 a box.

I just built a rest. I think it shows a bit of out of the box thinking and is only intended for rimfire, but I really don't think it's going to be ready for this weekend. Maybe next weekend.

 

[Situation Normal]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...It seems that I improve a bit each week. I went last Sunday to do some practicing and decided to do some work reading the wind and it made a lot of difference...</div></div>
That's the whole purpose of going eash week... to improve each week.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...During a moment of calm in the wind, I shot a five shot group that measured something like .35" edge to edge...</div></div>
That's a .13 group! Right at about 1/8". That's some dang nice shooting from a 10/22!

 

[Inline6]

Re: Shooting a 10/22

Tony
Well keep up the good work maybe you can do what I could not. It's been 8-9 months the last time I was at Nicks. I spent a fair amount of money to find what my liked (almost $400.00 in test lots alone). Once I found the one I ordered a case of 5k ($600). Was not long after that when they came up with the new rules.

I know how to make a 10/22 shoot super tight. I just can't do it the way that match is set up now. Best of luck!!!

Bryan