Gents, Looking to get in PRS. However from what i have been reading its prefered to shoot MIL/MIL scopes. Of course Im rocking a Vortex AMG MOA. How big of a pain in the ass will this be for me during matches?
- Thread starter Nicholas711
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Does your reticle match your turrets? If you have someone spotting, are they using a MOA reticle for corrections? Do you have all of your verified ballistic data set up to match your scope? Does your scope track?
If you answered yes to the above, then using MIL over MOA is moot.
If you answered yes to the above, then using MIL over MOA is moot.
So yes to everything but the spotting. This is where the question generated, was that most guys shooting PRS use MIL so its hard for them to spot for a MOA shooter.
I also was listening to Frank on the podcast. They had a guy that did the math in his head during the stages..That is not going to be the case with me lol.
If you're doing any math while shooting, you're doing it wrong.
The spotting will be an issue if you plan to have someone giving you calls and corrections. Not having this isn't required, but its a huge benefit if you do. This has nothing to do with MIL vs MOA, but rather that you are both using a different metric; there are some spotting scopes that are in MOA however. If its just you shooting alone, or no spotters are allowed, then it doesn't matter if its MIL or MOA as long as you are set up correctly.
Cool man thanks for the advice. I think my best bet is to get some matches under my belt with my current set up. Next rifle build will be my last, so I will more than likely switch to MIL/MIL. Again Thanks for the input.
I started out with an MOA scope, one match was enough to sell my entire fleet of moa optics and go MIL. Pull up any ballistic calculator and look at the come ups for an MOA scope at a distance, then switch the calculator to MIL and look at how much less spinning turrets you’re doing. In the end it’s totally up to what you’re comfortable with. If you like MOA, shoot it.
This is so not true. Anyone who is familiar with mils is also familiar with minutes and has, or should have, no problem switching from one to the other. And sometimes the easiest way to spot is to call out adjustments in fractions of target size (adjust right 1/4 target, hold left edge etc) if your spotting scope doesn't have a reticle.
And anyway, from what I understand PRS matches are individual events and no coaching is allowed. Meaning the spotter is only calling out hits. You're on your own to spot your misses and correct. In that case scope with MOA turrets and reticle is zero handicap.
The numbers on the app don't determine how much turret spinning you're doing. The number of mils/MOA per revolution on the turrets do.
The OP has to spin his elevation the same exact amount whether he's dialing 25 MOA or 7.5 mils because the bullet's LINEAR drop is the same for a given distance regardless of how you measure the subtended angle.
In our club matches, we allow the spotter to call corrections for the shooter. At a national PRS match, this won't be the case.
You may notice when a shooter comes off the line, he will generally share his wind call with his buddies. As long as you can convert his wind call to MOA, it's no big deal. As someone else mentioned, it is a lot of turret spinning on dial stages and this may create a bit of a time crunch for you. If you're just getting into it, I'd run it to see what I thought of the sport. I am almost certain that you will likely sell the MOA scope at some point and convert to MIL as you get more involved in shooting and competing.
Been shooting, and winning, matches of all kinds with MOA scopes for over 15 years. Whether your scope is MOA or MIL is really going to have nothing to do with how you perform.
PRS matches rarely allow someone to be calling corrections for you while you shoot (per the rules it is not supposed to happen) so that point should not be an issue. Yes, shooters will share wind calls. If someone shares a correction in MILS, I just convert it to MOA, it is not rocket science. If you are not good at doing math, and you think that it will be an issue for you, then just print a DOPE card that has both MOA and MIL on it so you can reference it.
Go shoot Brother!
PRS matches rarely allow someone to be calling corrections for you while you shoot (per the rules it is not supposed to happen) so that point should not be an issue. Yes, shooters will share wind calls. If someone shares a correction in MILS, I just convert it to MOA, it is not rocket science. If you are not good at doing math, and you think that it will be an issue for you, then just print a DOPE card that has both MOA and MIL on it so you can reference it.
Go shoot Brother!
Thank you DJ
Brother, counting down the days till Im stateside again. Looking to get it done at Frontline Defense in NC.
I have always used MOA, because that's what I learned on. It works fine until the spotter calls corrections in mils.
The turret spins the same amount in MOA or mils. You just see more numbers go by with one vs the other.
if a moa gen 2 razor has 25 moa per turn, and the mil gen 2 has 10 mil per turn...doesnt one need to spin more?
In that case yes, since 25 MOA is 7.3 mils. Not the major difference that some seem to think it is. From what I was reading here it made it sound like a massive amount.
In some other scopes where the elevation per turn is the same regardless of units there's no difference.
You are your own spotter in PRS and most tactical steel club matches (at least the ones I've shot), so that's moot. There are a couple of very skilled marksmen who refuse to go mil, and it makes zero difference in most cases.
When I am spotting I am not in the habit of give corrections in mils anymore either, just for the fact that I have spotted for a lot of people with MOA scopes. I use the target and fractions of the target to correct:
half a plate left, full plate right, left 1/4 of the plate and a two inches high, etc.
Whether the shooter is trying or not, through a hash marked reticle, when you get on the target your brain is sizing things off those hash marks without even thinking about it. I'm not talking ranging or milling, but just gauging the size of the target, and if you're not dialing windage and holding off this makes it really easy to either spot for yourself, or get calls.
It's generally an individual sport even though there are teams. The teams aren't supposed to spot or give calls to the shooter either!
I still can't figure out why there are teams... Maybe they just like to dress up the same and call themselves by catchy names!
The following are some of the teams I've shot against as a GDI:
"The Warriors"; Swan is ok shot, but Ajax and Cleon suck.
"The Turnbull ACs"
"The Gramercy Riffs"
"The Baseball Furies" Only good at the short range stages.
"The Boppers"
"The Savage Huns"...Obviously not very good, as they only compete with Savage rifles.
"The Jupiters"
"The Punks" I've shot against these guys a lot!
"The Rogues" They'll try to distract you by clinking bottles together when you're up.
I've shot against all these teams. They're not supposed to spot for each other in any event!
When I am spotting I am not in the habit of give corrections in mils anymore either, just for the fact that I have spotted for a lot of people with MOA scopes. I use the target and fractions of the target to correct:
half a plate left, full plate right, left 1/4 of the plate and a two inches high, etc.
Whether the shooter is trying or not, through a hash marked reticle, when you get on the target your brain is sizing things off those hash marks without even thinking about it. I'm not talking ranging or milling, but just gauging the size of the target, and if you're not dialing windage and holding off this makes it really easy to either spot for yourself, or get calls.
It's generally an individual sport even though there are teams. The teams aren't supposed to spot or give calls to the shooter either!
I still can't figure out why there are teams... Maybe they just like to dress up the same and call themselves by catchy names!
The following are some of the teams I've shot against as a GDI:
"The Warriors"; Swan is ok shot, but Ajax and Cleon suck.
"The Turnbull ACs"
"The Gramercy Riffs"
"The Baseball Furies" Only good at the short range stages.
"The Boppers"
"The Savage Huns"...Obviously not very good, as they only compete with Savage rifles.
"The Jupiters"
"The Punks" I've shot against these guys a lot!
"The Rogues" They'll try to distract you by clinking bottles together when you're up.
I've shot against all these teams. They're not supposed to spot for each other in any event!
yeah fairly insignificant, but it still always seems like the moa guys are cranking more when laying side by side lol
im a mil guy, but as been mentioned above, either work fine when it comes to hitting a target
When I first started shooting matches, I used SWFA SS 10X 15 MOA per Rev on a 308 shooting 168s at 2550 fps. Great scopes, but it was like crank, crank, crank, crank, crank.
That's where I'm at, shooting 178s and using a SS 3-15X with 5 mil/rev turrets. I crank as much as you did because 5 mils = 17 MOA
just stick with what you've got. moa v mil is just french vs spanish, one isn't 'better' than the other. if your spotter can call hits and misses, just ask him to do so in fractions of target, ie you're 1/2 target low.
and if you can see your misses, and see that you missed 5 lines low, just hold 5 lines high, zero math involved and moa v mil is completely moot.
and also look up the mil to moa conversion (think it's 3.4 something moa per mil) so if your buddy is holding a mil left for you that will roughly be 3.4 moa.
and if you can see your misses, and see that you missed 5 lines low, just hold 5 lines high, zero math involved and moa v mil is completely moot.
and also look up the mil to moa conversion (think it's 3.4 something moa per mil) so if your buddy is holding a mil left for you that will roughly be 3.4 moa.
I figure 2 Mils is about 7 MOA. Converter
Give or take a median rat's patootie.
For spinning knobs, that's pretty close.
Greg
Give or take a median rat's patootie.
For spinning knobs, that's pretty close.
Greg
This is what I trying to say in my previous comment, thanks for the correction.
We have a guy thats shoots club and and national matches with MOA Razors all the time I don't how he does it because I'm one of those guys who sold all my MOA scopes and bought mill but he does DAMN good
Above was an example of how a lot of guys call missed. 1/4 plate, full plate, 6 inches off the right edge... How many mils is that at 600yrds? ?
Moa guy here. Half our group is mil and half moa. We shoot together just fine
Moa guy here. Half our group is mil and half moa. We shoot together just fine
Use a good brake and spot your own shots. Don't rely on anyone else but yourself. Mil vs moa becomes moot.
