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Short ar....somthing i can live without

Chiraqastan here also....... and I just don't get the very short barreled AR's and "pistols" so popular these days. We can't have a suppressor so the blast and concussion is truly obscene and reliability is always an issue. All my AR's have 20" barrels and the one I sold several years ago had a 26" barrel.
 
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You're right on, I'm not an AR pistol fan.

I eliminated all the pistols 10.5" and 11.5" also...Just not for me & turned them back into rifles.
I like 18", for all a round work... but have them in 16", 18," 20", & 24"...the 24" being on the long side.
 
14.5 is my favorite, I do like them down to 10.5, but I don't care for anything shorter than that. I'm actually the opposite, I don't really see the appeal to anything over 16".

I'd rather step up in cartridge than go long and heavy.
 
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You're right on, I'm not an AR pistol fan.

I eliminated all the pistols 10.5" and 11.5" also...Just not for me & turned them back into rifles.
I like 18", for all a round work... but have them in 16", 18," 20", & 24"...the 24" being on the long side.
Have a 16 and and 18 deciding maybe trying a 14.5 or 13.7 just for the heck of it
 
OIP-1544792109.rUB0sLLAdItPZGpYYrbmLwHaD4.jpg
 
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Chiraqastan here also....... and I just don't get the very short barreled AR's and "pistols" so popular these days. We can't have a suppressor so the blast and concussion is truly obscene and reliability is always an issue. All my AR's have 20" barrels and the one I sold several years ago had a 26" barrel.
There's your problem right there.
 
I can see the value of a SBR/AR pistol in strictly CQB scenarios. Once you get past about 150 yards, the lethality really drops off. Since I live on a ranch (not Fallujah or Ramadi), and I find myself trying to kill far more stuff at > 150 yards, the need for a shorter barrel doesn't fit me.
 
Seems i build a short ar every few years now (braced as i live in the state of chiraq) and upon shooting them im just underwhelmed by them the only bonus to me is that its a nice small package but short of that id rather a 16in rifle setup any day of the week

Anyone else feel the same? Or am i just nuts

Yeah, without a can...short barrels are of limited utility after the novelty wears off. And given how the role of the stock plays in using a rifle, the current "approved" braces still suck in comparison.
 
Seems i build a short ar every few years now (braced as i live in the state of chiraq) and upon shooting them im just underwhelmed by them the only bonus to me is that its a nice small package but short of that id rather a 16in rifle setup any day of the week

Anyone else feel the same? Or am i just nuts
I feel the same as you when it comes to day-time shooting...If limited to daytime GP or target shooting/hunting something like 13.7 is as low as I'd go (Knight's KS1 for example) but 14.5-16" is ideal for anything general/all purpose use and 16-20 inches is preferred if you have a lot of ground to cover (living in rural settings, etc). When shooting at night w/NODs, where 100m is the max I shoot out to (typically it's 50m and in), I'd much rather have my 10.3 or 11.5.

Something like 14.5-16 can be a little ungainly at night but not a show stopper by any means...If I had to choose only one carbine to have at all, it would be my 14.5" and just deal with the extra few inches of length when using it at night.
 
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For those that can’t/don’t have a suppressor, a good option for range shooting a short barrel is a simple thing called a blast can. It directs the blast forward and makes the almost fun to shoot.

I use either a blast can or a suppressor on my 7” and 11” ARs.

If I want accuracy at more than 100+/-, I use my 16” or the 22” .224V for 700-1000.

It’s all in the intended use. I don’t shoot groups with the shorties.
 
For those that can’t/don’t have a suppressor, a good option for range shooting a short barrel is a simple thing called a blast can. It directs the blast forward and makes the almost fun to shoot.

I use either a blast can or a suppressor on my 7” and 11” ARs.

If I want accuracy at more than 100+/-, I use my 16” or the 22” .224V for 700-1000.

It’s all in the intended use. I don’t shoot groups with the shorties.
I just got an email yesterday from Witt machine advertising a muzzle brake with sleeve that goes over it. I.E muzzle brake linear comp combo. It seems like and interesting concept. It looks like a 5" can with half its baffles missing. I was wondering if it could handle a 280 for my hunting rifle, wnd what the actual sound reduction at the ear was.
 
I’ve owned and shot 9” 300 blackout. Although quiet it was very underwhelming for me. Drop is insane and I’d rather just build a pistol caliber build for my use and much cheaper to shoot

My 10.5” 556 was cool. Suppressed of course. But then I shot it over a chrono and if I remember the 18” was 2900 fps or something and the 10.5” was like 2400 fps. My 11.5” which I have now isn’t as bad. But there’s a point I’m sure around 12.5-14.5” where velocity starts to plummet per inch of barrel lost

I’m personally in the boat if you have a SBR and want a 14.5” barrel then go for it. But I wouldn’t register a SBR to save 1.5”.

My truck gun now is a basic 16” AR. I don’t even have a can on it. Got tired of the extra length and crap getting knocked down the barrel.

I toss the can on the 18” SPR setup and short barrel when I use those

The only benefit we had/have in Michigan (I’d have to check if still current) is a rifle registered as an SBR and under 26” in OAL can be carried under your CCW. So loaded in a vehicle (2014 MSP legal update is the latest info I found) I now just carry the 16” and stopped trying to keep up with all those rule changes that go back and forth on a weekly basis
 
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I was gonna suggest 10mm for a short SBR.

7.62x25 would be fun

Though logistics and lack of contract interest (lest you could convince LE like Glock did of what they "need"), I've long since thought that heavier, straight-wall cartridges or things like 9x25 Dillon/7.62x25 would be of far more utility in small PDW packages than the 4.6mm or 5.7mm and other micro caliber stuff. Colt MARS 9x30 and such. But such a tool will always be compared to and fall short of a 5.56 carbine for other things across the board.

10mm in a small, shoulder-fired package is FUN
 
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I just got an email yesterday from Witt machine advertising a muzzle brake with sleeve that goes over it. I.E muzzle brake linear comp combo. It seems like and interesting concept. It looks like a 5" can with half its baffles missing. I was wondering if it could handle a 280 for my hunting rifle, wnd what the actual sound reduction at the ear was.
Those don't reduce sound at all. It directs a lot of it forward which does help. Especially on a short barrel the concussion is crazy and it goes 360 degrees from the muzzle. That especially sucks when shooting near anything. Also if you are shooting where there is sand or dust, even when standing it can kick everything up. I've had a couple of instances where I had stop shooting for a minute because I got sand in my eyes (even with eye pro). Those blast diverters help with that a lot.
 
Though logistics and lack of contract interest (lest you could convince LE like Glock did of what they "need"), I've long since thought that heavier, straight-wall cartridges would be of far more utility in small PDW packages than the 4.6mm or 5.7mm and other micro caliber stuff. Colt MARS 9x30 and such. But such a tool will always be compared to and fall short of a 5.56 carbine for other things across the board.

10mm in a small, shoulder-fired package is FUN
Fuck mainstream, make your own way in life.

5 inch 7.62x25 that uses off the shelf readily available parts.
IMG_9049.jpeg
 
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Anyone else feel the same? Or am i just nuts

You're just nuts. LOL! (J/K)

I am a big proponent of having the right tool for the job. This includes barrel lengths. For CQB type of shooting the handling aspect is like comparing driving a school bus vs a sports car.

I live in the country and have a 300 yard lane at my house. I can sit and shoot groups from a bench for fun and I've done it a lot. That said trying to shoot off hand (without a rest of any type) or trying to run around simulating shooting from behind cover or something like that is much better with a shorter barrel. It's like playing sniper vs playing door kicker. Those are entirely different things. With one you can get all nice and set up and relaxed, the other you are sweating and have your heart rate up. If for no other reason except realizing how out of shape I am, it's worth doing the CQB thing for funzies.
 
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Fuck mainstream, make your own way in life.

5 inch 7.62x25 that uses off the shelf readily available parts.

I generally tend to...and many times it's been at great expense.

However, not having to wildcat/reload or rely on cheap surplus and have good, reasonably affordable ammo and support can be kinda nice from time to time.
 
I just got an email yesterday from Witt machine advertising a muzzle brake with sleeve that goes over it. I.E muzzle brake linear comp combo. It seems like and interesting concept. It looks like a 5" can with half its baffles missing. I was wondering if it could handle a 280 for my hunting rifle, wnd what the actual sound reduction at the ear was.
Yes, the Witt SMEs do work that way.
Those don't reduce sound at all. It directs a lot of it forward which does help. Especially on a short barrel the concussion is crazy and it goes 360 degrees from the muzzle. That especially sucks when shooting near anything. Also if you are shooting where there is sand or dust, even when standing it can kick everything up. I've had a couple of instances where I had stop shooting for a minute because I got sand in my eyes (even with eye pro). Those blast diverters help with that a lot.
The blast cans definitely help. They are definitely easier on the ears (though not as much as a can by far) and the blast is almost non-existent. I don’t shoot my shorties from prone as that’s not what they are for.

Simple blast can
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Witt SME
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Now this is Really a blast on my 11”! 😄
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Seems i build a short ar every few years now (braced as i live in the state of chiraq) and upon shooting them im just underwhelmed by them the only bonus to me is that its a nice small package but short of that id rather a 16in rifle setup any day of the week

Anyone else feel the same? Or am i just nuts
What is it that leaves you underwhelmed? Was there something you tried to do with a short setup that it couldnt do? Was it something that having more barrel would have fixed? If so, maybe you grabbed the wrong tool for the job or you picked the wrong ammo.

This is essentially a barrel length vs velocity argument and as with all things, it's a trade off. If you value or need more velocity, then go with a longer barrel. You also have to consider that not all are living under your constraints. Many run suppressors.

These days, I've been running a 12.5 with a suppressor that brings the length to just over 16". Running Black Arc 53gr V-Max I'm getting around 2900 fps at the muzzle. Its pretty danged compact without the suppressor and still manageable with.

If I find myself needing to wring more out of my rig, I'm not going to do it by turning my handy rig into something more unwieldy. I'm gonna grab something compact in a bigger caliber. Probably a .308.

I value ease of handling. Pulling a long barreled anything out of a scabbard on a 4 wheeler, or trying to negotiate it from inside of a side by side is a PITA. Not to mention just having it slung trying to get through the woods.

I can see humping around a 16" if you don't run suppressed. I have a 16" and all I really use it for is trips where I know I'll be stationary most of the time. That one rarely makes it out of the safe.

Maybe I've just gotten old and lazy, but I'm not limited to what I can grab by uncle Sam and don't feel the need to tote an uncomfortable setup to get all I can out of the little 5.56 when there may be better options.

Of course, if shooting fron a stationary location is your thing, or you don't run into situations that I do, your needs will differ. Me, I'm 5'2" tall and my 12.5 with the suppressor feels like a full size rifle to me. My shooting buddy is over 6' tall and a 20" looks like a toy in his hands. He doesn't have any problems pulling from a scabbard and he ain't doing anything from inside of a side by side anyway. For him a longer rig makes sense.

It's a matter of what YOU need. To say that shorter rigs don't serve a purpose is an over reach.
 
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I have 5 SBR ARs. 10.3" up to 12.5". The only 16" that I still shoot with any regularity is the MK12. The others sit in the safe. I haven't shot my Douglas barreled 20" in years. Everything I shoot is suppressed. If I want long range precision I grab a bolt gun. My SBRs are all used primarily within 200 yards and mostly within 50 as they are for training and mostly under night vision. They all have some flavor of IR laser on them.
 
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Have a 16 and and 18 deciding maybe trying a 14.5 or 13.7 just for the heck of it
I have a 14.5" pinned in 9 mm...just to try it..
It chronographs slower than the preferred 16" by a fair amount but only 1.5" shorter.

For me the pinned 14.5 ain't worth the trouble, I hardly ever use it.
The 16" is perfect for 9mm and it's still gaining speed, cause I chronograph the 10.5, 14.5, & 16" in 9mm.
Then disassembled the 10.5" for good, only a few ounces in weight, and you get higher velocities, better accuracy, and greater shoot ability.
The cool factor of short AR barrels wore off quickly for me, as not practical.
That's true across all calibers...nothing shorter than 16" for me...
 

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