- Thread starter trauma1
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7.5" sig upper to a 330m bowling pin all day...
Yes. I compete in PRS. I have recently been attached to a SWAT Team for medical support. They don’t like me getting in and out of the van “hot” with my 18 inch AR. So yes it is serious. Sorry
Accuracies for will be defined by the SWAT rifle eval, moving and hitting very tight groups
I’m not familiar with your swat rifle eval and the requirements. But being realistic, are you going to be running irons? Red dot, 1-4? If not running an optic setup that’s Ideal for really small groups there is very little need then for a high end match grade barrel. Most barrels now days from good manufacturers should be capable of 1-1.5” groups at 100yd so unless that won’t meet your requirements I would just pick what fits your budget and spec requirements
You can get accuracy at any barrel length, by Buying a quality barrel
the bigger impact with length is reliability, gas system, and muzzle flash
also I would advise not building something unless you known what you are doing with sbr. Are you tuning ammo? Do you have a preferred bullet weight, etc
the bigger impact with length is reliability, gas system, and muzzle flash
also I would advise not building something unless you known what you are doing with sbr. Are you tuning ammo? Do you have a preferred bullet weight, etc
So you supply your own for the swat team?
Don't they have a preffered local supplier at least?
Hell buy a full auto on dept. Letter head.
Don't they have a preffered local supplier at least?
Hell buy a full auto on dept. Letter head.
Thank you, no plans on building. Obviously by the reaction to my post I am a novice with SBR. I would like to pick up a upper that is already matched up. Thank you
Thank you for your response. When I show up for the brief we all start loading mags from the SWAT armory. Next time I will pay more attention to the large box the ammo is come out if and follow up.
I hear you. I have to provide the weapon system. They provide accessories. All my budget is in very advanced Medical. Where I am in the stack the odd are I will never fire a round on a mission. BUT!! I have to train with them and I don’t want a bad rep. So , I working to the best I can.
I am good on the lower. Yes, i am just looking for a good even used, matched up, reliable upper. My lower has a pistol brace. Sometimes we are running w/ the Feds. They are not sorry about my registration as much as me bring able to get out of the vehicles “hot” and not shoot one of them.
There’s alway one. Unfortunately.
Try to get your department to get you a P90 and the good AP ammo. That is more compact than most PDWs but still has enough barrel to get good performance from the 5.7x28 round, 50 round magazines and super controllable full auto if it's a legit P90.
Pistol ARs are bulky and obnoxious by comparison.
Pistol ARs are bulky and obnoxious by comparison.
One of the best shooting SBR’s I’ve built and owned, and there have been more than a few, was built with a 10.3” BA Hanson barrel, LMT Enhanced carrier with a Sionics bolt completion kit. It’s attached to a Vltor MUR-1A upper with a LaRue MLOK rail. For years I had a 9” LaRue Tactical quad rail, but I’m warming up to their mlok rails, the are a little lighter but still use their awesome mounting system. That setup is subMOA from a bench. It suppresses real nicely with a 762 SDN-6 can which I often wish was an M42k or mini 4, but it is what it is and it is quiet for an SBR. Unless you’re pretty experienced in the short barrel world, I’d hesitate going shorter than that. Sometimes going shorter can be/possibly be problematic from a cycling perspective.
I carry it in a low viz satchel type bag and honestly it’s incredibly smooth for the barrel length. It doesn’t have a pistol brace on it, but a Troy PDW stock. A pistol brace like a SB Tactical PDW brace would be a really solid set up.
Also I wouldn’t focus on accurate to 50-75 yards” as you posted. As mentioned damn near any quality barrel will give you that and I’ll go out on a limb and say even a mediocre barrel will give you a measure of accuracy at such a short distance. Focus on parts that are proven and reliable. The the setup I gave you has proved itself. On average we run mixed mags when running drills. Crappy steel case to Magtech just to keep testing our setups, and also to work through FTF’s when we run into a bad primer or something - and aside from those few crappy primer issues it has been nothing short of stellar in function, reliability (maybe that’s redundant) and it’s freaking accurate for what it’s built for and I’m dead serious, it’s a smoother shooter than my DD 12.5.
So your entering the short barrel world, what optic are you considering?
Have you considered just a factory DD Mk18 or KAC 11.5 upper? Personally I would buy something like that before going custom for a work rifle.
If you were going for something like a geissele upper, shoot me a PM and I have a 35% off coupon you could use.
If you were going for something like a geissele upper, shoot me a PM and I have a 35% off coupon you could use.
Thank you for details. I have a Eotec sight, but I am open to suggestions. My take away thus far is that I need to focus on reliability and do my part for accuracy
If budget isn't a concern and you want the best upper available go for the KAC. The mk18 from DD is tried and true and been in service for many years. They work. The LMT would be another good option I didn't mention. Geissele is coming on strong and being adopted by some. So plenty of choices for good factory uppers to slap on a go. I personally would stick to that 10.3-11.5 barrel length. Anything shorter, and you might as well go with a MP5 instead.
I'm a former SDM instructor and I sorta get what you're talking about. If it's a life or death situation (and it sounds like it is) and you're not gonna build it, IMO you have limited choices.
I'd skip all the bullshit and just get a KAC 11.5" upper. If you're firing 5.56 11.5 is really as short as you wanna go (14.5 is better). But an 11.5 will still have enough energy to do something. It'll run like a sewing machine too.
There are others for sure but I think that one will square you away perfectly.
I'd skip all the bullshit and just get a KAC 11.5" upper. If you're firing 5.56 11.5 is really as short as you wanna go (14.5 is better). But an 11.5 will still have enough energy to do something. It'll run like a sewing machine too.
There are others for sure but I think that one will square you away perfectly.
Thank you!!
If your good with a 7.5 WOA has one on clearance for 129.00. They have a bunch of good sales going, flip through their site cause they are a little hidden.. anything spun by woa will be accurate And if it is not they will fix it!
www.whiteoakarmament.com
Shop New White Oak 7.5 Barrel, Wylde | Pirate Day Specials
At White Oak Armament shop for new White Oak 7.5 Barrel, Wylde s.
www.whiteoakarmament.com 
You can find LMT uppers for pretty decent prices nowadays and I trust my life with mine. I only have the one upper from LMT but it's been flawless from the first round.
The 10.5" is more readily available. I have a 11.5" home built upper that I like really well. But if you need an upper soon and need to be able to rely on it, I would look at the LMT 10.5". KAC, DD, etc. are known for being top quality too, I've just never owned one. But I would at minimum go with the LMT.
The 10.5" is more readily available. I have a 11.5" home built upper that I like really well. But if you need an upper soon and need to be able to rely on it, I would look at the LMT 10.5". KAC, DD, etc. are known for being top quality too, I've just never owned one. But I would at minimum go with the LMT.
SWAT Team I am assigned to wants you to hit neck shots while moving with in 30 yards. So, my take away this far is RELIABLY of the upper and a consistent pattern. (I have to do my part!) Again with all the warriors that are in the stack before me, likely I will never fire a shot on a raid. We are now training in commercial building scenarios. The shots are getting longer.
Barrel length doesn’t matter for this. Optics matter particularly if your eyes are compromised. What ammunition will you use? How large a gun can you use before your ability to do medicine without setting it down is compromised?
So lets see here.
I have a swat team I'm part of or a bunch of jackasses on a forum to ask advice about my job requirements.
No offense intended to other forum jackasses. Plenty of good advise but I call bullshit card!
Fucking troll bullshit.
Go to the god damn le private section if vetted, I'll bet not.
Fucking waste of bandwith I'll bet.
I did some swat stuff today,
Two flies and a scary yellowjacket.
I'll bet more like drama 1.
Fucking neck shots.
Lol
I have a swat team I'm part of or a bunch of jackasses on a forum to ask advice about my job requirements.
No offense intended to other forum jackasses. Plenty of good advise but I call bullshit card!
Fucking troll bullshit.
Go to the god damn le private section if vetted, I'll bet not.
Fucking waste of bandwith I'll bet.
I did some swat stuff today,
Two flies and a scary yellowjacket.
I'll bet more like drama 1.
Fucking neck shots.
Lol
It takes a very special person to make "neck shots" while on the move.
Only those with experience with LE or military should be answering the question.
If you are Medical, just find a reliable built 10" to 11.5" barrel. You won't need it past 200m and likely won't need it at all with LE shooters in front of you. Small can will be a benefit for sound as the shorter the barrel, the louder the bang.
Only those with experience with LE or military should be answering the question.
If you are Medical, just find a reliable built 10" to 11.5" barrel. You won't need it past 200m and likely won't need it at all with LE shooters in front of you. Small can will be a benefit for sound as the shorter the barrel, the louder the bang.
Most people who have been LE or Military can’t speak adequately to carbine selection.
From the grammar and content I have no reason to doubt he’s a cop but he doesn’t sound like a doctor.
I understand your reluctance to contribute. I am not LEO. I am part of a University Hospital Team that was developed to support the increasing threats and public disrespect to LEO. This team has 12 hospital based Medical Staff that have Prior service backgrounds. We have lost LEOs because of the delayed administration of advance life support that is not available in the field. I am not claiming to be aSWAT member. Each of us are attached to a SWAT team in our large metropolitan area and suburbs. We work at the University Hospital full time in Trauma. We train as a group on new and advanced surgical skills that are used in surgery. We are administering them in the field to LEO or bystanders. Local EMS handles the care of perpetrators. We are notified within 12 hours of High risk Warrants. We are able to bring quick packs of whole blood from the hospital with us on the raid. I have 28 years of trauma experience! I know what I am doing! I am just trying to be the best I can be with this group of LEOs who are trusting me to go out with them. They have a job and I have a job to make sure they make it home to their families ALIVE. So I have learned the way they move, communicate and their tactics for various scenarios. I have been doing all this with a hand gun so far. I merely asking opinions of people with more knowledge in SBR configurations. I should have communicated better what they strive for in accuracy . It is to look at the shoulders and the neck. Aim in the center Of that. (CQB) Not necessarily a direct neck shot. Sorry to offended you with my desire to be the very best I can be, to integrate into SWAT teams and bring surgical interventions and blood resuscitation to them at the point of injury. We are proud of it! Hopefully you will never experience the need for our services. Hopefully you will never get hit or just get hit in your armor. But I can tell you with100 % certainty that bullets don’t always hit armor. You have major vascular structures around that armor. You can bleed to death before you get to the hospital. Thank you for your service to your community.
Sorry if I do not present well when typing on my phone. See my more detailed description of what our team is doing. Thank you have a great day.
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@trauma1
Look at these-
geissele.com
Look at these-
Super Duty Complete Upper, 5.56mm
SPECS: LENGTH: 11.5" CALIBER: 5.56MM COLOR: Black, DDC, OD Green, Grey RECEIVER: Super Duty Upper w/ cam Pin cut-out BOLT CARRIER GROUP: Nanoweapon Reliability Enhanced BCG BOLT: Geissele Stressproof Bolt with Asymmetric Cam Pin RAIL: 10.5" SMR MK16 BARREL: 11.5"...
geissele.com The smaller the better. Once again 99% of the time it will be training. Once someone goes down and they call me up, the rifle is going behind my back. Thank you for your response.
Head jackass here.
I would like to offer an apology to @trauma1 .
His wording set off my scepticism.
In my defense I'm old and the grocery store ran out of my favorite 12oz beer which was replaced by 16oz beer.
Old guys should stick with 12oz beer and not be so stupid.
I would like to offer an apology to @trauma1 .
His wording set off my scepticism.
In my defense I'm old and the grocery store ran out of my favorite 12oz beer which was replaced by 16oz beer.
Old guys should stick with 12oz beer and not be so stupid.
Thank you Snuby, all good! Please stay safe.
Mk18 10.5”’upper ?
Thoroughbred Armament has some good stuff.
Thoroughbred Armament has some good stuff.
Colt MK18 MOD 0 Upper 10.3 - No Hand guard
Colt MK18 MOD 0 Upper 10.3 - No Hand guard
www.thoroughbredarmco.com
this may not be the advice you are looking for, but i would look into a ar platform 45acp for that type of work. 4" barrels and 26 round capacity. they shoot like a dream and leave .45" size holes.......even with off the shelf fmj 230gr ammo. i dont even know if thats a option in your line of work, but ive shot all manners of short barrels and lengths. imho the 5.56 round in a short barrel package is unpleasant experience. even a 300bl would be better. just my experience
This is all total bullshit. There's not a tactical team in this country that has or wants a trauma surgeon in their "stack", not to mention carrying and using their own SBR or pistol. For Christ's sake, even the navy seals call in the really good medical help after they need it. Every one of the people on a swat team has enough medical training to stabilize their buddy enough to get to the medical pros that are staged OUTSIDE. My god. What a joke.
Lots of good options to play tactical tony at the range though....
Lots of good options to play tactical tony at the range though....
Sam, I have nothing to prove. We are not running long guns on Warrants, only when training with the teams. We have one person who is last in the stack. One outside in the hot zone. One at the CCP. What we contribute is the ability to administer whole blood immediately, placement of chest tubes, advanced vascular access, surgical airways and in worst case scenario REBOA placement on the scene. We have established an expedited process that alerts the University’s Trauma system so if applicable we can by pass the Emergency department and go straight to surgery. If you review LEO injuries and mass shootings you will find that 92% of the fatalities occur from massive hemorrhage. That prompted Trauma faculty to build relationships with LEO for advance training of their personnel as well adding University Trauma personnel to their team. Everyone on the team is prior service . We are proud of being able to support LEO. The SWAT teams we work with are very appreciative.
We are not trying to act as operators. The benefits of our training with the Local Teams is to build relationships, trust and Be able to move and communicate With them. Hopefully you will never need such services as ours. Have a great 4th of July .
Regards
Surgical Forward Intervention for Trauma Team
