Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

BillCh

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Minuteman
Aug 1, 2010
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Pacific Northwest
Greetings all,

(I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, my apologies in advance.)

I can't tell you how much this forum has helped me. The procedures and recommendations discussed here are invaluable.

OK, enough sucking up. Here's the deal.

I need some help.

My local rifle range/club is going to have a "sharp shooter" match next month. I'd like to participate and, more importantly, not look like a total newb jackass. Which I may or not be; never the less, I don't want to show it off.
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The last time I shot for score was for the Marine Corps many years ago.

Here are all of the details I know as reported in the monthly news letter.

<<<"The shoot is open to marksmen using any caliber gun (except .50 cal), with any power scope. Bipods or sandbags are allowed, mechanical rests are prohibited. This is a bench rest match. Three rounds at 100-yards are fired in the competition, 10 rounds per target for score, unlimited number of sighters. One target at 200-yards, 10 rounds for score and unlimited number of sighters. The 200-yard is optional.">>>

When I first read the news letter I thought this would be a cake walk. I go to the range and shoot at least once a week, and have since I bought my bolt rifle early this last spring. I've been able to load up some pretty darn satisfactory rounds. My "standard" load by which I judge all other loads is a 168gr. MK, 42gr. RL-15, Lapua brass, CCI BR-2, .010" jump. This may not be the best but it is always consistent, like clock work. I've played around with the 175 MK and the Berger 155.5 FB too. Both of those do really well for me at the 300 yard line. I prefer the 175 MK because its a softer shooter.

Most of the time during a shooting session I don't pay much attention to what rifles other people are shooting. I'd say the vast majority are of the typical hunting rifle variety. I've see quite a bit of the 45-70 and even some 35 Whelen. I can't remember seeing any serious bench rest guns - until last week.

There was an old guy with a tricked out serious 6BR, shooting inch groups at fifty yards. He said the rifle was new and this was his first time out with it. I didn't ask if he planed on participating in the upcoming match. Yesterday, there was some fellow with a 20 Practical. I didn't speak with him but I did glass his targets. He was doing inch groups at 100 yards and was in the process of working up a load. My point here is that I suspect there are more rifles suited for bench rest shooting at my local range than I had previously thought.

My Rifle is a Savage F/TR, .308. Thats a 1-12 twist in a 30" barrel. As much as I am satisfied with my rifle, I wonder if I'm out gunned!

I usually don't spend a lot of time shooting at the 100 yard line. The farthest targets at my range are only 300 yards and I mainly shoot the 200 and 300 yard targets.

I'm considering bullet selection for the match, specifically, bullet weight/length. I've tried a few of the 110gr. V-Max with 47.5gr. Varget in the past. They did OK, but I haven't shot enough to develop a strong opinion as to there short range performance. Should I concentrate on working up a load with a lighter, shorter bullet like a Sierra 110gr. HP, or Hornady 110 V-Max? I don't really expect any body here to suggest "the" bullet, just a direction to lean in bullet selection, Shorter lighter or longer heaver.

Are there any other loads I should be paying special attention to in prepping for this match?


Thanks

B
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

The important words in the match announcement are these IMO:

<span style="font-style: italic">"The shoot is open to marksmen using any caliber gun (except .50 cal), with any power scope. Bipods or sandbags are allowed, mechanical rests are prohibited. This is a bench rest match."
</span>
Bench guns on front and rear supports with bench shooters operating them will be producing groups significantly less than a half inch at 100 yards.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

If you like your 168s, why not stick with them. No since re-eventing the wheel just for a match.

However if you don't like them, then try something else. I asked Gary Anderson what he use to set the 300 meter standing record (that still stands today), he said, Model 70, Hornady 168s, He added if it wont shoot 41 grns of 4895 and 168s he dosn't want it. You dont need velocity on a 308 unless you are trying to keep it super sonic at extended ranges.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

I'd say go for it. You have a good gun, a load you are happy with, experience at the ranges required, and a willingness to compete and ask questions. This combination means that you have the skills and equipment needed and the ability to learn from the match. Worst that happens is you have the lowest score and gained experience. You will meet other shooters and maybe a mentor.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a willingness to compete and ask questions.</div></div>

And help with the range dutys if needed . You will be surprised at how much people are willing to help a new guy . Just dont buy everything they are selling . A bench match will teach you alot about shooting and load development ,great stuff to know . BUT if you want Tac type shooting you need to go there .

Whats the name of that gun club in Estacada OR ?? Try there ot maybe TRI County in Tigard OR .
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

Who cares if your out gunned. If you go out and shoot your 308 , and you truly shoot the best you can you will have fun. I have shot benchrest for 4 years and I shoot the 6br with a benchrest setup, but on a remington action. I have beat many a 5000$ setups because of the luck with the wind gods. I shoot the 6br against the 30br & 6ppc and yea I get my butt kicked but I do give them a run for their money. I have never had someone give me any lip for my economical setup. Truthfully I think it is 70% mental (nerves) and 30% arrow. The recoil of the 6br is nothing, and it is a proven caliber. If you can manage the 308 why not give it a try. Like someone said earlier, dont re-invent the wheel. One thing I would add : Secrets of the Houston wharehouse Experiments.. This is a very good read...

good luck

prosise
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

With competition, of course, you want to pick best cartridge that has the highest possible BC for that class, with minimal recoil. Yes, the 6mm, 6.5, 7mm will have the advantage of having higher BC projos. The recoil will be less. But one can still win the match using the 'good ol' 308 cartridge. High BC projo will have advantage if you are shooting long range with high wind. At 100, 200, and 300 yards, I don't think you are going to see that much advantage over the 308 cartridge. At those ranges, it comes down to the shooter, assuming that the load is the best load for the barrel. Of course folks with the BR experience and race gun are going to have the advantage. Don't let that discourage you. Good luck
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

I have never shot in competition but if i ever did i would shoot what ever loaded rd YOU feel the most comfortable with. If its within the rules. If your set up is accurate then keep it like it is.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

It sounds like you have a reasonably accurate load, You might find your groups tightening up a bit around 44.5 grains, but it really depends on the firearm.

I would suggest trying Federal 210 primers, I find them more consistent.

I have a buddy I have been loading for for several years, I finally got him to bring his rifle in so I can check the leade in order to set him up with some "tuned loads"

However until a week ago his rifle was an out of the box Remington PSS in .308, with a factory set 8# trigger.

He has been getting consistent sub-1/2MOA using LC NATO brass, Fed 210 primers 42.5gr. IMR-4064 and 168gr. Hdy. HPBT with OAL set to SAMI spec (2.800 OAL) (I keep telling him to get SMK's but he doesn't listen.....)

Anyhow, I would not really worry too much about being out matched, accuracy is very much in the mind of the shooter.

One bit of free advise though, If you find yourself running test loads, get out the chronograph, if you do not have one borrow or buy one. What you are looking for is consistency in muzzle velocity, and you find that one load that is consistent within 10-20FPS you will also find it to be the most scary/accurate load for your gun.

I might also add that someone shooting a bench gun, and getting 2 MOA out of it is definately not someone to worry about. Now the bench guys over by me CAN get 0.18" groups on a really really really good day....

As far as it goes, if yo are comfortable shooting 168s, stay with it, If your rifle barrel is broken in, the action bedded (or has a bedding block) and everything is torqued properly you only have to work on the shooter...

Another consideration is what targets are they using? If the 10 ring is 3" You should shoot ace out no problem, unless they get 5) perfect scores in which case the calipers might come out, but if you are seeing a lot of 45-70s, it does not really seem like you are going to have much serious competition anyhow, just a fun shoot, so try to go in with the fun attitude.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

Back when I shot some 100 and 200 yard reduced highpower matches with my 308 bolt rifle I shot Sierra 110 Varmiters out of a 12 twist factory Winchester barrel. Bug hole groups and lower recoil - hard to beat.

I'd be inclined to shoot this type of a load again for the match described above if I planned to attend as long as my current 308 would shoot it. I expect it would.

Speer makes a 125 that a lot of HP shooters use at 200 for offhand and sitting.

Berger makes some bang up 30 cal lighter BR bullets for Hunter BR competition.

If you are inclined to fiddle, I say give any of the above a try.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

This is a score match and not a smallest group type match. If your load will keep the bullets in the X-ring provided you read the wind correctly you'll have a chance. You just need to cut the line to score the higher value. Take your existing load and go for it because this is what you have been practicing with and no need to complicate things with a new load right now.
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flat base match bullets are the ticket at 100 and 200 yards, break even at 300 yards, and outperform at longer distances. </div></div>
I agree with mitch, in my 700p flat base match bullets group better than boatails shooting short range!
 
Re: Short Range Match Load: Am I out Gunned?

First off, thanks for all the help here.

I was looking over some of my old targets yesterday afternoon. Typically, my groups are all inside of an inch square at 100 yards. The exceptions being most factory ammo. The thing is that the farther the target, the better moa group I shoot, out to 300 yards that is. This leads me to believe that there is more unmet potential at closer ranges. While true that, as kraigWY put it, there isn't any reason to reinvent the wheel; sense the match gives higher percentage of score for 100 yards than 200 yards, I'd like to maximize my efficiency there for now.

One reason I like my 168 MK load is that it's what I call an all day shooter. The combination of the (extremely) heavy rifle weight and and the moderate powder charge make for very light recoil. I can comfortably shoot a hundred rounds at a whack.

One of these days I really need to go out to Douglas Ridge Rifle Range in Estacada. They have up to a 1000 yard range. I very curious how my rifle will do at longer ranges. I bet there's lots of good information to be had there to.

I shoot off a bipod only, a Sinclair. In my opinion, this rifle is made to shoot off a bipod, not so much a mechanical rest. Those three legged mechanical rest are pretty sweet looking though. I guess it may to my advantage that I've never used one over someone who has to switch to a sandbag or bipod to shoot in a match. Not that it matters to me but, what setup do bench rest shooters use if they can't use a mechanical bench rest?

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to a good muzzle velocity to strive for with a 110gr. Sierra HP?

Thx

B