Short throat on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

[akxx]

I am not new to reloading, but new to developing a load for a Savage 10FCP HS in .308 (only 20 rounds down the tube before starting load development)

After trying to develop an OCW load for 175 SMK with IMR 8208 XBR, I simply wasn't satisfied with the results, and decided to check COAL issues.

I measured the COAL to the lands using the wooden dowel method (measure to a closed bolt, then insert a dummy round seated extra long and let the slow closing of the bolt allow the lands to gently push the bullet into the case--measure again with a dowel to the tip of the bullet while dummy round is chambered).

I was shocked to see that COAL to the lands with a 175 SMK was only 2.798"(!!) Has anyone else experienced a factory Savage 10 chambered with what appears to be a short throat? In case it matters, it has the older notched barrel nut. Barrel nut and barrel have not been touched since the factory.

 

[workinman]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

i have checked my 10fcp mcmillan with 175 smk's and I'm right at about 2.805 to the lands. I know I should give data from the ogive, but its not in front of me right now. the distance to lands surprised me also, but I also have a remy 700 sps that the lands seem miles away in comparison. I don't think you have an issue, headspace from the shoulder to casehead should be good, its the short throat that would be an issue if any. I've never used your method of checking, but it sounds like your close to where I'm at. you might be driving the bullet too hard into the lands giving you a false reading. check several times and check again.

 

[DanSavage]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

I have the exact same coal measurement in my 10fp with the 175 smk. I'm seating to an average of 2.780 with really good results. I think it is a great advantage to be able to get to the lands and still be under mag length, another positive thing about Savage.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

Distance to the lands and headspace are two different things.

 

[akxx]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

OK--glad to know that others have similar measurements. Not sure why I was expecting for it to be closer to 2.83-2.85 COAL to the lands.

 

[bas402]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

Best thing to do is to change powders. 8208XBR will not push the 175's good at all. It gives good results with the 168's but that is the max. Switch to Varget and start low say about 41gr and work up. Seat the bullet .020" from the lands (Ogive) You will be alot happier.
Sully

 

[EROCO]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Distance to the lands and headspace are two different things. </div></div>

+ 1

 

[akxx]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

2.780" COAL, for a 0.02 jump to the lands it is--will try it out.
Thanks!

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

Savage 10 FCP-K, 175gr SMK, seating to 2.795 is touching the lands.

This is one of the reasons I like Savage. It is easy to reach the lands and still use the magazines.

 

[akxx]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

I get the advantage of reaching the lands with a mag, but the Savage mag allows something close to 2.90" in .308!

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get the advantage of reaching the lands with a mag, but the Savage mag allows something close to 2.90" in .308!

</div></div>

Yup. More options no matter how seemingly unnecessary, are always nice.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get the advantage of reaching the lands with a mag, but the Savage mag allows something close to 2.90" in .308!

</div></div>

Yup. More options no matter how seemingly unnecessary, are always nice. </div></div>

You guys sure that you're hitting the lands at <2.800" using something like the Hornady/Stoney Point modified case gage system?

~2.800", or even 2.790" seems to me, like a very narrow window, condisdering the book for most of these bullets starts at 2.800" and goes further.

Hitting the lands at something like ~2.790" seems like a bad situation, since you have to seat those 175s, or whatever, quite deep and you're sacrificing case capacity.

Even with the Hornady/SP gages, you'll have to try each bullet measured, a few times to make sure that you're seating the projecticle properly and not snagging things on the beginning of the lands.

Chris

 

[Leaddog]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

Some bullets, like the 175 SMK have a long bearing surface for a relatively short bullet. This is normal.

 

[bas402]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get the advantage of reaching the lands with a mag, but the Savage mag allows something close to 2.90" in .308!

</div></div>

Yup. More options no matter how seemingly unnecessary, are always nice. </div></div>

You guys sure that you're hitting the lands at <2.800" using something like the Hornady/Stoney Point modified case gage system?

~2.800", or even 2.790" seems to me, like a very narrow window, condisdering the book for most of these bullets starts at 2.800" and goes further.

Hitting the lands at something like ~2.790" seems like a bad situation, since you have to seat those 175s, or whatever, quite deep and you're sacrificing case capacity.

Even with the Hornady/SP gages, you'll have to try each bullet measured, a few times to make sure that you're seating the projecticle properly and not snagging things on the beginning of the lands.

Chris </div></div>

+1 Couldn't agree more!
Sully

 

[harloe]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

I had 2.830 COAL with SMK 175's touching the lands in my 10FCP-HS before re-barreling.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: harloe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had 2.830 COAL with SMK 175's touching the lands in my 10FCP-HS before re-barreling. </div></div>

Yeah, that is reasonable.

If I'm hitting the lands at only 2.790"-2.800", I'm sending that barrel back to Savage and telling them to give me one with a little room. Not 'Remington room,' but a couple/few dozen thousandths would be sufficient

I think my 10FP LE2b when it was new in summer of '05 would allow the 175 SMKs to be seated out to 2.835"-2.840", IIRC, but now with 3300 round's worth of throat errosion, it's more like 2.880" lol.

Chris

 

[akxx]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: harloe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had 2.830 COAL with SMK 175's touching the lands in my 10FCP-HS before re-barreling. </div></div>

Rebarreling because the barrel had been shot out (and the throat had eroded out to 2.830"), or was this measurement on a barrel in newer condition?

 

[harloe]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: harloe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had 2.830 COAL with SMK 175's touching the lands in my 10FCP-HS before re-barreling. </div></div>

Rebarreling because the barrel had been shot out (and the throat had eroded out to 2.830"), or was this measurement on a barrel in newer condition? </div></div>

That is a good point. I'm sorry I didn't keep the best records when the rifle/barrel were new, the round count was < 1000 rounds. There was definitely erosion (less than 0.010) but my catalyst to change the barrel was to gain an increase in mv and accuracy.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Headspace issue on factory Savage 10FCP HS?

Same with my .260. My experience with .308 Savage 10's agrees with the presumption that they have shorter throats. I'm in favor of that, and specified a shorter thoat on my L-W .260 barrels.