Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
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Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634 was 11 mils to 1k. I am hoping to improve that by switching to the 155 scenar, still working on finding the magic load. I should easily make 1k with the scenar and the short barrel 308.
Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634 was 11 mils to 1k. I am hoping to improve that by switching to the 155 scenar, still working on finding the magic load. I should easily make 1k with the scenar and the short barrel 308.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Yep, it'll get there with the right bullets for sure. 168 FGMM probably won't though.
blklabs can you post your load for the 178's?
Yep, it'll get there with the right bullets for sure. 168 FGMM probably won't though.
blklabs can you post your load for the 178's?
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Yes you can. This discussion has been brought up many times on here. I personally never shot a .308 with a barrel length less than 20 inches before at a 1000 yds but I know a few guys who do. Even a POF 16inch has been known to get to a 1000yd with 155 palmas.
Yes you can. This discussion has been brought up many times on here. I personally never shot a .308 with a barrel length less than 20 inches before at a 1000 yds but I know a few guys who do. Even a POF 16inch has been known to get to a 1000yd with 155 palmas.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, it'll get there with the right bullets for sure. 168 FGMM probably won't though.
blklabs can you post your load for the 178's? </div></div>
Also depends on elevation, We shoot old 168 Lake City match (which out of a 24inch barrel is 2550 FPS) and are shooting it out of a SASS with no problems reaching at 1000yds at 5500 elevation
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, it'll get there with the right bullets for sure. 168 FGMM probably won't though.
blklabs can you post your load for the 178's? </div></div>
Also depends on elevation, We shoot old 168 Lake City match (which out of a 24inch barrel is 2550 FPS) and are shooting it out of a SASS with no problems reaching at 1000yds at 5500 elevation
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634</div></div>
Holy shit! That is blazing.
My 18" krieger 1:10 tops out at about 2520fps before I see pressure.
44gr varget
winchester
cci200
175SMK
I would question your chronograph.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634</div></div>
Holy shit! That is blazing.
My 18" krieger 1:10 tops out at about 2520fps before I see pressure.
44gr varget
winchester
cci200
175SMK
I would question your chronograph.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
It's funny how perceptions change over time. I remember when I thought that the 20" barrels looked "snubby". Now I have a 20" rifle anything longer than 20" looks excessively long. If I ever re-barrel this rifle it will definitely be 18", possibly even shorter. I'm also becoming more realistic with my shooting needs. The chances of me shooting at a kilometer are slim to none. I'd be perfectly happy for minute of man at 800 meters.
I'd love to see what a 16" looked like in a McMillan A3... Just for giggles.
It's funny how perceptions change over time. I remember when I thought that the 20" barrels looked "snubby". Now I have a 20" rifle anything longer than 20" looks excessively long. If I ever re-barrel this rifle it will definitely be 18", possibly even shorter. I'm also becoming more realistic with my shooting needs. The chances of me shooting at a kilometer are slim to none. I'd be perfectly happy for minute of man at 800 meters.
I'd love to see what a 16" looked like in a McMillan A3... Just for giggles.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi5150</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be perfectly happy for minute of man at 800 meters. </div></div>
Hey, don't kid yourself. The 18" 308's can shoot lights out at 800yds. ... just don't expect them to do it in crappy conditions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi5150</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be perfectly happy for minute of man at 800 meters. </div></div>
Hey, don't kid yourself. The 18" 308's can shoot lights out at 800yds. ... just don't expect them to do it in crappy conditions.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blklabs can you post your load for the 178's? </div></div>
Sure. Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers, 44.7 Varget loaded at 2.178. The stick is a KMW, Krieger 1:11" 308 Win Match.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blklabs can you post your load for the 178's? </div></div>
Sure. Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers, 44.7 Varget loaded at 2.178. The stick is a KMW, Krieger 1:11" 308 Win Match.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
What kind of chrono... and have you tested it against any other chrono's?
You are getting 24" velocity out of your 18". Something is not adding up here.
What kind of chrono... and have you tested it against any other chrono's?
You are getting 24" velocity out of your 18". Something is not adding up here.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
http://www.youtube.com/user/SHLowlight#p/u/34/15qj032UJ1I
http://www.youtube.com/user/SHLowlight#p/u/34/15qj032UJ1I
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634</div></div>
Holy shit! That is blazing.
My 18" krieger 1:10 tops out at about 2520fps before I see pressure.
44gr varget
winchester
cci200
175SMK
I would question your chronograph. </div></div>
Chronograph is good and the dope matches up perfectly using Litz bc's and my dope, which according to the range book was 11 mil, 1.5 mil right in swirling wind and shot at +1500DA.
Feel free to run jbm so you don't think I am full of it, scope height = 1.9".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634</div></div>
Holy shit! That is blazing.
My 18" krieger 1:10 tops out at about 2520fps before I see pressure.
44gr varget
winchester
cci200
175SMK
I would question your chronograph. </div></div>
Chronograph is good and the dope matches up perfectly using Litz bc's and my dope, which according to the range book was 11 mil, 1.5 mil right in swirling wind and shot at +1500DA.
Feel free to run jbm so you don't think I am full of it, scope height = 1.9".
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Ive seen some pretty tiny barrels do some long range shooting with good results.
Ive seen some pretty tiny barrels do some long range shooting with good results.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
I shoot a 16" built by APA with SWR Omega 30 suppressor all the time out to 800. Shooting Southwest Ammo, 155gr, scenars, lap brass with large primers. It does just fine inside 950 yards.
I shoot a 16" built by APA with SWR Omega 30 suppressor all the time out to 800. Shooting Southwest Ammo, 155gr, scenars, lap brass with large primers. It does just fine inside 950 yards.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634 was 11 mils to 1k. I am hoping to improve that by switching to the 155 scenar, still working on finding the magic load. I should easily make 1k with the scenar and the short barrel 308. </div></div>
You'll improve your elevation with the 155's but your wind holds will suffer, Even if you could keep the 155's at 2950 wind gets iffy beyond about 850yds with the 155's IME.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, my 18" with 178 amax running at 2634 was 11 mils to 1k. I am hoping to improve that by switching to the 155 scenar, still working on finding the magic load. I should easily make 1k with the scenar and the short barrel 308. </div></div>
You'll improve your elevation with the 155's but your wind holds will suffer, Even if you could keep the 155's at 2950 wind gets iffy beyond about 850yds with the 155's IME.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of chrono... and have you tested it against any other chrono's?
You are getting 24" velocity out of your 18". Something is not adding up here. </div></div>
More barrel length does not necessarily equal higher velocities. With a fast powder you can actually have a bullet reach max velocity before the end of the barrel, and be slowed down due to friction before it exits the barrel. In cases such as this, a shorter barrel would potentially show higher velocity than a longer one.
-matt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of chrono... and have you tested it against any other chrono's?
You are getting 24" velocity out of your 18". Something is not adding up here. </div></div>
More barrel length does not necessarily equal higher velocities. With a fast powder you can actually have a bullet reach max velocity before the end of the barrel, and be slowed down due to friction before it exits the barrel. In cases such as this, a shorter barrel would potentially show higher velocity than a longer one.
-matt
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Yes I realize that monte, but he said he was using varget. So same is same, the variable lies elsewhere.
Yes I realize that monte, but he said he was using varget. So same is same, the variable lies elsewhere.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
kpk actually sent me this link the other day it helped me out.
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
kpk actually sent me this link the other day it helped me out.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
I recently saw a rem 700 build with a 16.5 inch heavy barrel and 1-10 twist. Thought that was pretty stubby.
would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
I recently saw a rem 700 build with a 16.5 inch heavy barrel and 1-10 twist. Thought that was pretty stubby.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
Here is my daughters rifle she says that it needs 8.5 mils to get to 800yds with 175smk, never tried 1000. load through my chrony and friends oehler is around 2610-2620fps.
Here is my daughters rifle she says that it needs 8.5 mils to get to 800yds with 175smk, never tried 1000. load through my chrony and friends oehler is around 2610-2620fps.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curnow26</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
</div></div>
1:10 is the most versatile twist for 308win in any length barrel. The end.
Unless you are shooting palma with 155's or dedicating it to shooting heavy 220's and 240's subsonic, there is NO NEED to look anywhere but 1:10.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curnow26</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
</div></div>
1:10 is the most versatile twist for 308win in any length barrel. The end.
Unless you are shooting palma with 155's or dedicating it to shooting heavy 220's and 240's subsonic, there is NO NEED to look anywhere but 1:10.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curnow26</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
</div></div>
1:10 is the most versatile twist for 308win in any length barrel. The end.
Unless you are shooting palma with 155's or dedicating it to shooting heavy 220's and 240's subsonic, there is NO NEED to look anywhere but 1:10. </div></div>
You know you are pretty forceful and absolute in your statements. I would venture to say that unless you are going to shoot the 30 cal heavies, then the 1:11 and 1:12 will work just fine. Out of curiosity what twist would you recommend for the 155's?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curnow26</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would barrel twist have an effect on a shorter barrel? For ex. .308 18 inch barrel with a 1-10 vs. 18 inch barrel with 1-12.
</div></div>
1:10 is the most versatile twist for 308win in any length barrel. The end.
Unless you are shooting palma with 155's or dedicating it to shooting heavy 220's and 240's subsonic, there is NO NEED to look anywhere but 1:10. </div></div>
You know you are pretty forceful and absolute in your statements. I would venture to say that unless you are going to shoot the 30 cal heavies, then the 1:11 and 1:12 will work just fine. Out of curiosity what twist would you recommend for the 155's?
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
blklabs i have a 1:10 and usually shoot 168 gr on occasion i shoot 155's for trigger practice and the 1:10 really doesnt do them justice. ive researched this and always get the same answer 1:14.
blklabs i have a 1:10 and usually shoot 168 gr on occasion i shoot 155's for trigger practice and the 1:10 really doesnt do them justice. ive researched this and always get the same answer 1:14.
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy at the range recently had his .308 cut down from 24 to 18.5
Can you get enough velocity from a 18.5 to still get to 1000 effectively? </div></div>
Remember the .308 is dying like a wounded duck at 800 to say nothing of 1K. I shoot to 800 yards often with my .308 and feel comfortable making 1st or 2nd round hits on 1.5-2 MOA sized targets. 1K is definitely stretching the limits of a .308. Frank once responded to the question "why do we shoot a .308 to 1K?" with "because we like stretching the limits and we can".
You can pull up videos of Frank hitting steel with his 18.5" rifle on YouTube, but I know I can't do it! I like 20" for a good versatile barrel length for the 175 class bullets running around 2650 fps give or take. Ballistically, that gets you to 1175 and change depending on temp and elevation, but good luck hitting an MOA target at that range though.
Hope it helps.
jeff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy at the range recently had his .308 cut down from 24 to 18.5
Can you get enough velocity from a 18.5 to still get to 1000 effectively? </div></div>
Remember the .308 is dying like a wounded duck at 800 to say nothing of 1K. I shoot to 800 yards often with my .308 and feel comfortable making 1st or 2nd round hits on 1.5-2 MOA sized targets. 1K is definitely stretching the limits of a .308. Frank once responded to the question "why do we shoot a .308 to 1K?" with "because we like stretching the limits and we can".
You can pull up videos of Frank hitting steel with his 18.5" rifle on YouTube, but I know I can't do it! I like 20" for a good versatile barrel length for the 175 class bullets running around 2650 fps give or take. Ballistically, that gets you to 1175 and change depending on temp and elevation, but good luck hitting an MOA target at that range though.
Hope it helps.
jeff
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I realize that monte, but he said he was using varget. So same is same, the variable lies elsewhere. </div></div>
Not necessarily, my point was more to say that you may gain velocity with a shorter barrel. The only other variables would have to be your barrel specs or brass sizing and bullet seating.
-matt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I realize that monte, but he said he was using varget. So same is same, the variable lies elsewhere. </div></div>
Not necessarily, my point was more to say that you may gain velocity with a shorter barrel. The only other variables would have to be your barrel specs or brass sizing and bullet seating.
-matt
Re: Shortest practical barrel length for a .308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know you are pretty forceful and absolute in your statements. I would venture to say that unless you are going to shoot the 30 cal heavies, then the 1:11 and 1:12 will work just fine.</div></div>
Agreed. 1:12 in almost every case will handle 175's.
-matt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know you are pretty forceful and absolute in your statements. I would venture to say that unless you are going to shoot the 30 cal heavies, then the 1:11 and 1:12 will work just fine.</div></div>
Agreed. 1:12 in almost every case will handle 175's.
-matt
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