Should a experienced shooter, new to precision bolt guns, start with a custom build?

[amedeo1227]

I am an experienced shooter.

i love anything that goes BANG! I have some nice pieces in my collection, no junk. It is either really great quality, or it is handed down in the family that has went up in value classics. Or it has a personal value because it was my father's, etc.....

i started shooting further and further, only to love it more and more. Currently using my Noveske 18" or a 308AR 18" that I built.


i am getting a bolt gun. Mind is made up.

i want to know if the Hide thinks I should start with a Rem700 AAC SD or build a custom with a Stiller action or Tempest, etc...?


we all know how it starts, we all know, one day, I will have a custom build or equal factory rifle. Like a GAP or a AI AT.



so I know if I go custom, I'm not sure if I will be using the rifle to it potential, I mean maybe, but probably not first. But I feel like going the Rem route will be a waste of money and time, when I can use that towards a build.


wha do y'all think?

 

[diverdon]

There are a lot of factors to consider. Budget, knowledge level, goals, patients ect.

What do you want to do with the rifle? Hunt? PRS series? Take courses?

AI, Sako and others offer good rifles off the shelf.

Do you know the difference between a ARC and a Defiant and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Bartlein and a Kreiger and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Jewel and a Huber and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a McMillan and a Manners and why you prefer one over the other?

If the answer to all the above (and other similar questions) is yes then you may want a custom if you can wait a bit for one. On the other hand you can be shooting an AI or a Sako tomorrow so there is something to be said for that too.

 

[IanHusaberg]

Is not the ultimate goal to shoot..... or just collect. If you have some money why wouldn't you buy a Accuracy International? If you want to shoot now, buy a factory rifle. If you want to build a custom why not start buying the components along the way and begin shooting a factory rifle in the mean time. How would you even know what you want when your new to bolt actions. You said you don't buy crap, then why would you buy Remingtion? AI, as far a I know has the highest resale value, if you go down the custom road. I think it would take you a little while to shoot an AI to its full capacity depending on caliber. Just a few thoughts? Not Worth much. Just my $.02

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

My first bolt gun was/is a custom. I kept shooting my friend's 700, and another friend's RPR, and then it was all over for me, I just had to have a bolt gun.

Ask yourself this: say you were just handed a free Remington 700 right now. Are you the kind of guy that would:

A: Get out there and shoot it for a few months and see what you like/don't like and make changes from there?
B: Immediately order up that barrel and new stock/chassis you've been researching, get the wait over with, then shoot your build?

If the answer is A, go factory. If it's B, I say go for that custom action, because you're right in that, if you already know you will eventually get a custom, you would save money just getting the custom now. But in order to do that, you definitely have to have the components you want laid out in your mind first, and be prepared to wait. Some custom components could be plucked from a shelf, others will take months to get to you.

Don't worry about not shooting it to it's full capacity! Most of the guys on here don't shoot to their rifle's capacity, including me XD
I can't drive a Lamborghini to it's full capacity but you can bet your ass I'd be having the most fun trying!

 

[fdkay]

You are going to build on your factory gun and spend just as much money, so why not get it right from the start?
I went the route of buying a factory rifle and building from there.
I am very happy with the results, but I live right down the road from a gunsmith.
it also allowed me to add to the rifle as funds allowed.
If you have the money and can wait, then go custom and you will be happy from the start.
However, we live in a time when there are so many excellent choices, it boggles the mind.
Do you like the idea of a chassis rifle?
Howa, Savage, Ruger and Remington all offer chassis rifles from the factory, of coures there are the tier one rifles like the AI and Sako, which are priced accordingly.
Forward thinking companies like Howa, Savage and Ruger offer it in superior long range cartridges like 6.5 creedmoor.
If you like more traditional rifles, there are several of those available, Savage offers the excellent tactical line in both an HS Precision or a McMillan stock.

Another option is to go "semi-custom", you can order a Shilen barreled action and put it in a stock of your choosing, or you can have them build you a rifle. Their actions are made by Stiller, a fine, well made action.

 

[knockemdown]

Good advice above.
Before you go the custom build route, do your homework in hopes of determining a preference based on your wants/needs.
With that in mind, I'd keep an eye on the Post Exchange here. Guys get bit by the same bug you did, only to be cured or develop rifle ADD. Either way, some real nice rifles show up on sale, for much less than you'd pay, new...

 

[NovaHunter]

I went the Semi custom route that Fdkay suggusted. Shilen DGR action which is basically a Stiller Predator action threaded to accept Savage Prefits. I chose a Pac Nor prefit barrel, Timney Trigger, APA Gen 2 brake, and McRee Chassis.

Easy build to put together and rifle shoots in the .3's and .4's at 100 yards and has been very consistent out to 1100 uards as well.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[jlficken]

I would get either a TRG-22 or Accuracy International AW/AT/AX and go shooting instead of waiting for a custom.

The AT and AX(2014+) will allow you to swap barrels in a couple of minutes. The AW/TRG-22 allows you to swap them in about 10 minutes with a barrel vise and action wrench (Adam's Custom for the AW and KRG for the TRG-22).

I have owned a custom in the past but quickly realized that I would much rather have factory rifles without the wait as long as they do what I need them to which in my case the AT does.

 

[steve123]

OP, I see that you built your AR, so you can do the same with a bolt rifle.

You also have an affinity for nice stuff and the lesser is put away. I'm much like that in certain ways.

I decided on the ARC Mausingfield action for all it's innovation. IMO, it's the best one money can buy, I'm very pleased with it. It comes with a mount and you can choose which angle you want.

Then I ordered my aftermarket trigger of choice. Two pins to install and done, literally one minute to do.

Buy a Premium quality pre-fit match barrel/ small shank Savage, in contour and cartridge of choice, a go gauge, a few other tools and install the barrel yourself.

Purchase two M700 action bolts (i ordered BAT machine and fit the length) to fasten the action into a nice chassis which has fully adjustable "everything". IMO, stock or chassis "fit to body" is a very high consideration.

Might as well order ARC rings too. I feel the same about them as I do Tedd's action. Attach rings to scope and mount, level and torque, then go shooting.

You could spend twice as much on a build, especially if you were paying a gunsmith for his services, with little or nothing to show in functionality for the money spent.

I sold my M700 custom to a good friend. It served me well for the most part but if I had to choose, lol...

 

[Supersubes]

There are a lot of factors to consider. Budget, knowledge level, goals, patients ect.

What do you want to do with the rifle? Hunt? PRS series? Take courses?

AI, Sako and others offer good rifles off the shelf.

Do you know the difference between a ARC and a Defiant and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Bartlein and a Kreiger and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Jewel and a Huber and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a McMillan and a Manners and why you prefer one over the other?

If the answer to all the above (and other similar questions) is yes then you may want a custom if you can wait a bit for one. On the other hand you can be shooting an AI or a Sako tomorrow so there is something to be said for that too.

Respectfully, I disagree here. I think that stuff just doesnt matter. Like the difference between Bartlein and Kreiger. There is no practical difference. One can easily read the features of one action over another. Like many here, those are bought sight unseen based off of a person's research or a recommendation from someone else. All the parts you listed, chosen in any combination, makes a dang fine rifle. People often recommend getting the advice of the builder. He'd certainly have that. The gunsmith will tell him if his parts will not play nice together.

Being an AI person, I think the AT is the best bet in any case though.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I started with a used Rem 700 MiI Spec in .308 which was nice to start with and not terribly expensive. Here is where it started to get expensive for me...thought I wanted to shoot this in PRS matches so had the receiver trued, barrel cut and threaded, installed a Timney trigger and then mounted it all in an AICS chassis. But after attending a few matches I kinda realized that I was really wanting to shoot 1,000 yard F-class and the rifle I had built was not intended for that type of shooting. I believe you need to figure out what the rifles intended us would be and that will help you to make your decision. At this point I have almost the same amount of time and money into this Rem 700 build as I do my purpose built F-class custom rifle....go figure?

 

[diverdon]

Respectfully, I disagree here. I think that stuff just doesnt matter. Like the difference between Bartlein and Kreiger. There is no practical difference. One can easily read the features of one action over another. Like many here, those are bought sight unseen based off of a person's research or a recommendation from someone else. All the parts you listed, chosen in any combination, makes a dang fine rifle. People often recommend getting the advice of the builder. He'd certainly have that. The gunsmith will tell him if his parts will not play nice together.

Being an AI person, I think the AT is the best bet in any case though.

Supersubes, IMHO your statment proves the Opposit of your contention. You know enough about Bartlein and Kreiger to have formed the opnion that you would be equally happy with either one, and that is exactly the kind of knowledge that you should have before specing out a custom. You should also know what contour you prefer and why.

In-so-far as depending on the gunsmith, how many guys have bought a high end trigger on a custom rifle and had it fail during a class or a competition because the design was reliable only when it was perfectly clean. There is a hint here, if you value reliability in field conditions and you are specing out a custom you might want to choose a Huber. Not all gunsmiths know or care about the differences.

I do agree with you 100% that any AI would be an excellent choice (unless of course the OP need a rifle to hunt sheep) if the op lacks conviction about his choices. Of course if the OP were to return to the thread and provide more information about his intended use for a bolt gun I sure the advice he recieves would be more useful to him.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

I started with a Rem 700 too. It didn't take long before I moved on to a custom build.

 

[Sheldon N]

I vote buy-once cry once. But to make sure that you only cry once, you need to make the right decision. Otherwise you'll be going the route of buy twice cry twice if you get the wrong custom.

To make the right decision.....educate yourself. Read, learn, go talk to the people doing what you want to do, etc.

Determine purpose of rifle -> caliber choice -> budget (optic too) -> action choice -> stock/accessories/options -> gunsmith choice (lead time) -> execute your plan and actually buy the rifle.

Walking through those steps might also lead you to other options like a used custom or a high end factory rifle like the AI.

 

[SubOptimal]

When I first started shooting rifles again, I was hooked on killing whistle pigs at longer ranges. I bought a Ruger #1 in 22-250 and put a Leopold scope atop, truthfully I don't remember the size. It was fun and I killed a bunch of the fat little bastards. I learned a bit about wind and a bit about range estimation. Then trap shooting got ahold of me and I sold my rifle.
Fast forward a few years and I got into handgun metallic silhouette and spend quite a bit of money there learning to shoot all over again. Got into reloading and spent a lot of time learning what a bullet does when propelled at various velocities with various powder charges in my then guns. This eventually led me into hand guns for self defense and a move to south Florida pretty much put paid to the IHMSA shooting. Sold all those guns.
I had pretty much switched over to indoor shooting at local ranges when I decided that an AR-15 would be a nice thing to have. On advise of LGS and the former ATF instructor on hand I got an SR-15 from KAC and was looking for a place to shoot it. Discovered a rifle range about 80 miles from me and went out and played with the thing on their range. Liked the way things were run and the fact that they had both a paper target range and a gallery range where I could ring steel. Plenty of room at the paper target range with targets at 25, 50, 100 and 200 and I found myself gravitating to this end.
Well, I soon wanted to shoot better than I was capable with that AR, had found this place (the old hide), and once again, became fascinated with longer range shooting, Found the PX and got a big box to appear with a proper long range rifle. AIAX folding chassis, Pierce action, Rock Creek bbl in 6.5 CM built by Accurate Ordinance. Picked up, after research here, an Atlas bipod, a Bushnell H2HDMR 3.5-21x50, a Spuhr 20 MOA mount and set out to set the world on fire.. NOT! I had to, once again, learn how to shoot all over.
Two years down the road and I'm starting to get proficient with the gun, at least from a bench. I don't hunt and even prone shooting requires help for me to get back up. Did I mention I'll be 75 in a couple of months and years of riding and crashing motorcycles has taken their toll on me. I still enjoy shooting but am now on a limited income that makes it hard to shoot much anymore. I doubt I'll improve much from here. Maybe it is time to switch to the 22s.
Sorry for the ramble, shooting should be fun, not an obsession. Get what you want to do what you want. Let your progeny argue over what to do with the guns when you are gone.

 

[YO_Doc]

I am an experienced shooter.

i love anything that goes BANG! I have some nice pieces in my collection, no junk. It is either really great quality, or it is handed down in the family that has went up in value classics. Or it has a personal value because it was my father's, etc.....

i started shooting further and further, only to love it more and more. Currently using my Noveske 18" or a 308AR 18" that I built.


i am getting a bolt gun. Mind is made up.

i want to know if the Hide thinks I should start with a Rem700 AAC SD or build a custom with a Stiller action or Tempest, etc...?


we all know how it starts, we all know, one day, I will have a custom build or equal factory rifle. Like a GAP or a AI AT.



so I know if I go custom, I'm not sure if I will be using the rifle to it potential, I mean maybe, but probably not first. But I feel like going the Rem route will be a waste of money and time, when I can use that towards a build.


wha do y'all think?

Amedeo, I recently built my own bolt gun and I have to say that it was a great learning experience. I used some of the parts that you have mentioned and every thing came together great.

It took several months to put it all together and I have to thank guy's like Brian from TSI, Andy from AAS and their buddy Mike who is retired, but has an interview over on the front page of SH, their guidance with my soft idea which was something in the .338 to .50 range with nudges from 50+ years of shooting experience was very helpful, my thoughts became focused and a solid plan started to come together, into a DIY project. Time frame, this all started back in Aug 2016, while having a brew with Brian and Andy; the plan at the start was to get a off the shelf rifle be it a MSR, TRG-42, AIAX, M-107 et al and possibly having something semi custom built, the plan was scattered from the start, focus and direction was very helpful for me. After digging around some on my own and establishing a reasonable budget, which already had a few years of savings set aside for this project, the plan became more of a DIY project, due to availability of some things and the ability to do well with sales that were out there, DIY became the route. In the end I now have a rifle that is much more unique than anything off the shelf, I also have the learning experience or specing the parts and assembling them myself, in addition to having to have exchanged emails with guys who have a great depth of knowledge in precision marksmanship. The last point is the most important to me, as I now need to learn how to best use this beast of a rifle and spending time shooting with guys like the above will be very helpful with the learning process. The last of the parts arrived a few weeks ago and the assembly was a breeze. One of the more priceless things that I have already taken away from this process is knowing how the rifle goes together as this will help me keep it maintained as I travel around and shoot in different places. If something goes wrong and I'm across the country at a class, I'm sure that I can properly repair the issue and get back to the class in short order, or prevent any issues all together.

What I wound up doing was going with a Stiller action, prefit Pac-Nor barrel, X-Treme trigger and at the time Cadex came to my attention via the Hide and also Mike's suggestion, for the chassis. The assembly was actually a little less challenging than building a AR, and the new rifle shoot's very well. In fact the rifle shoots like a dream. The Cadex chassis made the process almost drop in, their fit and finish on the chassis was exceptional. While I'm still learning the basics of this system, I know that I'm the weak link in the process at this point and that this will be fixed in the next few months.

I have to say, take the time and do your own thing, it is very rewarding and educational at the same time.

Added:
In the end of it all I spent a bit more on the rifle than what a TRG-42 would have cost me, but I have something that is more unique and far more intimacy with it before I even fired the first shot. I would do DIY all over again with out any hesitation.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Trust me, Save yourself some money and just buy an AI.

 

[CShooter92]

I have been shooting bolt actions for many years hunting and target shooting but nothing along the PRS lines of shooting. I generally know what I like in a rifle and what I don't. I've handled a few customs to decide on components between what feels good and what wouldn't work for me. That being said, I think you really need to determine the end use of this rifle. My build is more dedicated to a LR coyote rifle with the ability to shoot steel. Therefore I don't want it to be 15 pounds like a PRS style rifle would be because I'm going to be walking a lot with it. I also don't want it to be ridiculously long for easy maneuverability.

 

[bogeybrown]

Respectfully, I disagree here. I think that stuff just doesnt matter. Like the difference between Bartlein and Kreiger. There is no practical difference. One can easily read the features of one action over another. Like many here, those are bought sight unseen based off of a person's research or a recommendation from someone else. All the parts you listed, chosen in any combination, makes a dang fine rifle. People often recommend getting the advice of the builder. He'd certainly have that. The gunsmith will tell him if his parts will not play nice together.

Being an AI person, I think the AT is the best bet in any case though.

I totally agree with your point. I'd purchased a used GAP Surgeon, but never spec'd my own custom before. I knew what I wanted it to do and contacted Marc at Spartan. We discussed what components he liked to use, which were all choices I was incredibly happy with, and commissioned the build. I think that conversation was something like " Marc, if I knew all this shit I wouldn't be talking to you. You know what you're doing, save me some money where it doesn't matter, but build a rifle you'll be proud to put your name on at the end of the day".
For no reason other that their active participation on the old Hide I always had a preference for Bartlein and never had a reason to look elsewhere other than niche builds like Service Rifle or whatever. I chose Timney bc at the time match shooters had some horror stories about Jewells quitting on them. As it worked out, Marc liked the things I liked, and built "us" a rifle with components we were both comfortable with.

All that BS aside, my one regret from back when I had the money was not buying an AI. I'd simply run out of reasons to buy yet another rifle in a caliber I already had multiples of.

 

[jlficken]

Trust me, Save yourself some money and just buy an AI.

Honestly, I wish I had heeded this advice 10 years ago.

 

[OH58DViper]

The AI would be my suggestion as it's a modular platform that grows with your needs. I started with a custom and never looked back. Well I traded into a sendero 700 that is now trued and wearing a custom barrel and an EH1 with all the added bells and whistles. If you are strapped for cash enduldge your inner gun snob, it will save you money in the end

 

[Quarter Horse]

There is only one reason to buy a custom and that is because you know exactly what you want and why you want it. Buying a first tier factory rifle will get you an exceptional rifle in an adjustable configuration that can be made to fit most shooters but the money is similar or more than a custom. TRG and AI are the most recommended but there are others, PGW Defense Cadex, that are outstanding.

My recommendation would be to buy a quality second tier rifle and start shooting. Specifically a Tikka CTR or an FN SPR. A great early step would be a class or two to get fundamentals grounded.
Then go to some comps. and either shoot or just talk to other shooters and ask to get behind their gear. At some point you will start to form an idea of what and why and that is when to consider the larger investments. Just my .02.

 

[spife7980]

The AI is a solid choice, having built 3 rifles in 2 years I would have been better off financially buying an AI and getting a couple alternative barrels for the same cost as Im in now and from here on out cheaper than multiple rifles. Personally the AT appeals most to me over the AX chassis.

However I think that for a first step into the bolt world an RPR would be a fine choice and wouldnt put you several grand in the hole right away if it turns out bolts arent your thing. Both the RPR and the AT would have fine resale value at this point in time so you could cut your losses easily enough. I wouldnt sink money into building a new custom when you dont yet know what you want in a trigger much less in an entire rifle.

And since you seem to like tinkering just as much I do I also would suggest getting a cheap savage/rem walmart special, thread on your own prefit on and roll vs buying a high dollar gun thats already complete. It would give you a project that you could get as in depth as you want and satisfy your itch to experiment. I specified "better off financially" in my opening statement because I too like to tinker and its for this reason that I havent jumped on the AI train yet. Once I do that all of my projects disappear and then all I have to do with my time is beat off in the garage rather than reading and scrounging around for info on why my inane half cocked ideas wont ever work. This is my chosen hobby after all, cant just skip to the end of the journey to AI heaven.

 

[NateVA]

I can only speak from personal experience. I have a rifle built on a Remington 700 action and I wish I had saved longer and gone with a custom action to begin with. I will be probably doing a Mausingfield build later this year after a scope upgrade (didn't go big enough with that either).

 

[FourT6and2]

Should they? No, there is no "should" or "must" or "must not" involved. Can they? Sure. I did. And I'm happy with my decision. Saved me money in the long-run and I have more fun shooting a rifle that performs.

 

[athanasios23]

I think whether you build a custom of rem 700 or buy a high end factory like trg or AI you will be happy. In the hands of the right smith a 700 shoots just as good as custom action build. Buy once, cry once is a true statement. But if you catch the bug for long range shooting you will buy a bunch and smile a bunch. Then cry when you receive your bank statement or credit card bill. I haven't met a gun owner with one rifle. (obviously you have a bunch) I'm sure they exist. Probably ride unicorns and eat dodo bird eggs for breakfast. So thinking you will end up with only one precision gun is unlikely. I could be wrong. Its not a bad idea to buy a factory gun. Shoot it and build a gun after you research and figure out exactly what you want. Then you got a sweet rig and a back up for friends and shitty weather. Tikka's are nice bang for your buck. If budget is no issue I'd buy an AI and then eventually build my own spec'd out rifle to exactly what I want.

 

[A5scott]

I'm in the same boat here, I've been shooting on and off for 30 plus years, but my bolt action experience is old milsurp bolt rifles, and last summer I shot a buddy's Ruger RPR, in 308 and 6.5CM. All my rifles are semi auto AR types, and after hanging with my buddy and getting hits out to 1400 yards, and shooting a match, I am really wanting a bolt action.

I'm lefty, so I'm pretty much ordering rather than finding something off the shelf. I also like nice things, so I was thinking of building around a Stiller action and plugging it into an AICS chassis. Then I started looking at Defiance and Surgeon and others and my brain was spinning with all the options, not unlike an AR build lol. Another almost requirement for me is double stack or AW mags, since my right arm and hand don't function well, so AW mags are easy for me to load. Then I found Kelbly's Actions, and thought I might try one, and Ian said to check out a certain chassis for use with the AW mags, and at the time I was thinking 300 win mag or 338LM build. Then after talking with my buddy, I decided a 308 was a better idea, since I want to shoot this one a lot. Any, then I stumbled across the Masterpiece Arms site and saw they build complete rifles around the Kelbly's action. A phone call with their builder, and I think I'm going to put a deposit on one and wait the 3 months. I find them at online retailers, but never in a lefty. Damn you Salazar! lol.

I know I will want another, so I will see how the MPA 308 rifle goes and take it from there.

Scott

 

[jlficken]

I do really like my Tikka CTR but as more of a general purpose rifle.

 

[amedeo1227]

There are a lot of factors to consider. Budget, knowledge level, goals, patients ect.

What do you want to do with the rifle? Hunt? PRS series? Take courses?

AI, Sako and others offer good rifles off the shelf.

Do you know the difference between a ARC and a Defiant and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Bartlein and a Kreiger and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a Jewel and a Huber and why you prefer one over the other?
Do you know the difference between a McMillan and a Manners and why you prefer one over the other?

If the answer to all the above (and other similar questions) is yes then you may want a custom if you can wait a bit for one. On the other hand you can be shooting an AI or a Sako tomorrow so there is something to be said for that too.

I am not sure how to take your post?

I know that certain smiths prefer Kreiger barrels, and other prefer Bartleins. I dont think that one smith is better than the other, and I believe they know what they are doing, so whats the big deal?

ARC and Defiant actions...well I want neither. The only thing I am not decided on is barrel contour, and actually barrel make for that matter.



But let me answer some of your questions.

I plan to have a rifle I can shoot prone with, but also bring hunting. I dont like stalking too much, and prefer box stands, so I dont need an ultra light rifle. However, an extremely light rifle, does appeal to me. I like the idea of a stiller action with a proof barrel in a magpul stock, that would be awesome to tote around. What if I do go hunting with the guys i work with you go elk hunting in the mountains? I dont want to carry an AI AT all week.


I dont have time to go to matches that much, but maybe when my daughter gets older, I will, so no PRS for right now.

I already bought a Timney Calvin elite 2 stage, so jewel and huber do not spark my interest. I read about jewels not liking dirt too much, and I have had great experience with Timney. Also, I went with Timney because Gesseile doesnt make a rem700 trigger (yet).



McMillan stocks I find are heavy, I like Manner, and I like the bolt set up on the cheek riser on the manners.


I dont think that your questioning on my knowledge of available parts for build and their differences what expressed very well, so I wont try to take it as it reads. I know what I like, that wasnt really my question.

The question is - Should I start with a custom build? Instead of a Rem700 dressed up.
--because-- I dont want to burn up a barrel on a custom gun trying to learn what the hell Im doing wrong. I dont want to have equipment hold my potential back, since I am an experienced shooter.


I would get a proof research barrel if i knew they could handle getting banged around in the woods. My range only stretches out to 600yds. In southern louisiana we dont take more than a 150yd shot hunting around here.


I already have a magpul stock, timney trigger, brake, and a razor gen 2, just trying to figure out if a regular barreled action rem700 in 308 is going to be a waste. Or should I spring for a stiller with a kreiger/bartlein barrel?

I do see an AI AT in my future, and I am very fortunate to have a career that allows me to have nice things. I started with an Colt AR and a few Spikes AR's, great rifles, but I sold the Spikes and get Noveskes, because I like the better stuff, and I am afraid of repeating myself with a bolt gun. I just dont know if there is something to be said for learning on a rem700, like with a f*%k up my first rifle? I dont know these things.


thats all.

 

[spaniel]

I'd experiment more cheaply before pulling the trigger on a custom or an AI. Figure out what you like/need.I know when I got into this game, what I THOUGHT I wanted changed after I got some experience.

You can get into a Savage or a Remington relatively cheap. Savages have better aftermarket prefit barrel availability, but you can get Rem/age barrels from several sources (I have one waiting on a Stiller action). Remington, though, has better aftermarket stock and trigger options. So I have a stable including both.

It all depends on what your goals are. IMHO, if you want a .3-.5 MOA rifle for whatever purpose, if you have a Dremel and basic tools you're wasting a lot of money if you pay people to build rifles for you. I've done that many times over with a barrel nut, some pillars, Devcon, and a quality (McMillan) stock. Very happy with my Stiller prefits.

 

[spaniel]

I am not sure how to take your post?

I know that certain smiths prefer Kreiger barrels, and other prefer Bartleins. I dont think that one smith is better than the other, and I believe they know what they are doing, so whats the big deal?

ARC and Defiant actions...well I want neither. The only thing I am not decided on is barrel contour, and actually barrel make for that matter.





? I dont want to carry an AI AT all week.


I dont have time to go to matches that much, but maybe when my daughter gets older, I will, so no PRS for right now.

I already bought a Timney Calvin elite 2 stage, so jewel and huber do not spark my interest. I read about jewels not liking dirt too much, and I have had great experience with Timney. Also, I went with Timney because Gesseile doesnt make a rem700 trigger (yet).




The question is - Should I start with a custom build? Instead of a Rem700 dressed up.
--because-- I dont want to burn up a barrel on a custom gun trying to learn what the hell Im doing wrong. I dont want to have equipment hold my potential back, since I am an experienced shooter.

My range only stretches out to 600yds. In southern louisiana we dont take more than a 150yd shot hunting around here.



thats all.

Posted while I was typing.

So if you can't shoot past 600 and hunting is limited to about 150, and you aren't planning to compete....I double down on questioning a custom rifle for your purposes. Buy retail, semi-custom to your needs, and if you out-grow it then you will have the experience to know EXACTLY what you want. So many here reference the AI AT, I get it, but for my purposes I have no interest. Learn what you need before you make that kind of investment.

My best "do it all" rifle is a 243AI built on a Savage short action, Shilen Savage heavy sporter contour 24" barrel, McMillan A3 Sporter. Great for deer/antelope to moderately long ranges, prairie dogs at whatever range I can hit them at, and targets to probably 1000 yards. I plan on shooting an F-class match with it in a couple weeks, for that purpose I'd go with a heavier contour but it will get it done. I don't have a huge investment in this gun but it shoots .3 MOA with 105s, for probably half the price of a custom.

 

[NateVA]

ARC and Defiant actions...well I want neither. The only thing I am not decided on is barrel contour, and actually barrel make for that matter.

I plan to have a rifle I can shoot prone with, but also bring hunting. I dont like stalking too much, and prefer box stands, so I dont need an ultra light rifle. However, an extremely light rifle, does appeal to me. I like the idea of a stiller action with a proof barrel in a magpul stock, that would be awesome to tote around. What if I do go hunting with the guys i work with you go elk hunting in the mountains? I dont want to carry an AI AT all week.


McMillan stocks I find are heavy, I like Manner, and I like the bolt set up on the cheek riser on the manners.


Or should I spring for a stiller with a kreiger/bartlein barrel?

In regards to your weight preferences, it'll be a tricky compromise. An extremely light rifle is going to be harder to shoot and control recoil with. Heavier rifles tend to absorb user error, which can be plentiful in hunting situations. I don't know about your physical build but for elk hunting I think a roughly 10-11 pound upper weight limit (with scope) wouldn't be unreasonable. It all depends on what you're willing to haul around.

The weight differences between McMillan and Manners stocks will really come down to the fill. The Manners "elite hunter" or "elite tactical" fill will be roughly equivalent in weight to a similar McMillan stock with the "edge" fill. I think you're referring to the KMW Loggerhead cheekpiece hardware that Manners uses for their adjustable stocks. McMillan will cut for for the KMW hardware if you so choose, though I'll admit I prefer Manners. The differences between the two will come down to features and wait time. McMillan has a shorter wait time but Manners certainly has more features available. That's assuming you don't just buy the stock from a vendor that already has them like CORE or Euro Optic.



Side note: I'm not criticizing your choice of action at all but what specifically draws you to the Stiller over other custom actions? I'll link a survey of the features of some popular R700 actions so you can look at it if you like. I'm not saying I think you need to, but I think it's a good introduction to the differences between some of the custom actions on the market.

http://www.recoilweb.com/rem-700-custom-actions-109106.html

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

It seems the general consensus here is... At least go semi-custom, if not full custom or AI. Going factory is the route taken usually if you already own a factory rifle to build off. When starting from scratch, do whatever you can with your budget!

 

[amedeo1227]

In regards to your weight preferences, it'll be a tricky compromise. An extremely light rifle is going to be harder to shoot and control recoil with. Heavier rifles tend to absorb user error, which can be plentiful in hunting situations. I don't know about your physical build but for elk hunting I think a roughly 10-11 pound upper weight limit (with scope) wouldn't be unreasonable. It all depends on what you're willing to haul around.

The weight differences between McMillan and Manners stocks will really come down to the fill. The Manners "elite hunter" or "elite tactical" fill will be roughly equivalent in weight to a similar McMillan stock with the "edge" fill. I think you're referring to the KMW Loggerhead cheekpiece hardware that Manners uses for their adjustable stocks. McMillan will cut for for the KMW hardware if you so choose, though I'll admit I prefer Manners. The differences between the two will come down to features and wait time. McMillan has a shorter wait time but Manners certainly has more features available. That's assuming you don't just buy the stock from a vendor that already has them like CORE or Euro Optic.



Side note: I'm not criticizing your choice of action at all but what specifically draws you to the Stiller over other custom actions? I'll link a survey of the features of some popular R700 actions so you can look at it if you like. I'm not saying I think you need to, but I think it's a good introduction to the differences between some of the custom actions on the market.

http://www.recoilweb.com/rem-700-custom-actions-109106.html

That at link was pretty helpful, and really just concretes my decision on the action I like.

Thanks

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I went the Semi custom route that Fdkay suggusted. Shilen DGR action which is basically a Stiller Predator action threaded to accept Savage Prefits. I chose a Pac Nor prefit barrel, Timney Trigger, APA Gen 2 brake, and McRee Chassis.

Easy build to put together and rifle shoots in the .3's and .4's at 100 yards and has been very consistent out to 1100 yards as well.

I see this as a highly viable option. Think of it as ordering from the Ala Carte menu. You get the ability to buy one good action/trigger, one good stock, and one good optical system, which you can then combine with any number of good barrels.

You can only shoot one rifle at a time, anyway.

Bolt faces are the only real question. I would get either a .308 or a .223 bolt face, and request a matching bolt in the other face diameter. I can live OK without a Magnum bolt face.

However, my only custom rifle is built on a 2001 Savage 10FP action. It has a Sharpshooter Supply Trigger and Recoil Lug, a McMillan A3 Stock, and a Ken Farrel 20MOA Base. It has had several barrels; a Savage Factory .260, a custom .30BR, and now has a Lothar-Walther 28" .260 Rem barrel. A Mueller 8-32x44 side focus Target Dot scope rides in Medium Height Vortex 30mm 6-screw rings. It is a decidedly cut rate custom, but it does all the things I ask well enough to completely sate my interest in custom rifles

I have a Wheeler Savage Barrel Nut wrench set, and a set of barrel blocks for the vise. I do my own barrel swaps now.

It keeps me busy, which was what I really wanted after all.

Greg

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Tikka rifles are coming on strong right out of the box. LL has a set of videos working on one and I came away from watching them that there was nothing wrong just leaving it stock.