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Photos Should I be concerned?

SavageLapua

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 6, 2012
230
3
37
Alberta, Canada
I'm running with 92gr H1000 and Berger 300 OTM's... Should I be concerned with these slight ejector marks?

Just to note, I did some tests with 300br SMK's and had the same markings at below book max... Can't remember if they looked like this with the minimum charge...
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

I see the marks. Can you feel them at all? Do you get this with factory loads, or any others? Is this fresh brass? Annealed? Looks like it might be getting a little "hot."

I get these too but only when I get to around 93 grains H1000 with 300 grain SMKs. Velocity is around 2850fps. Different bullets have different bearing surface lengths (increases resistance in the barrel, hence pressure). Any bolt lift problem?

Curious. What kind of velocity are you getting with this load?
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Can't feel the ejector marks... Pretty much just a shiny spot... I believe this was either brand new or once fired brass. I haven't seen these marks on any of the 250's I've shot.

I was getting them on the 300 SMK's with US869, even at 101gr or 102gr. (104 max) Same thing, new brass...

My chrony was showing me 2757fps for an average and from what I've read on here, that's about par.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

I just sold a Savage 110 BA. The ergonomics weren't working for me. Nice gun otherwise. Using a Dakota Longbow .338 LM right now. Love it. Just wish it had a DBM.

Anyway, every gun is different. You've probably heard that. Go/No-go gauge doesn't tell you exactly what's going on in the neck area of the chamber, tolerances gun to gun can be off a few thousandths, which can change internal ballistics drastically. Can. Might.

If you're NOT getting sticky cases, or difficult bolt lift, I wouldn't worry about it that much.

Another question: how far out are you seating the bullets?

SAAMI spec shows 3.681" as max cartridge length, but I load mine out to 3.725 to get 20 thou off the lands. YMMV. Get a bullet/cartridge OAL length tool (stoney point made mine, I think hornady bought them out) and a comparator. You might be crowding the lands which is increasing pressure.

Good luck.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Not having any kind of sticky bolt lift, only twice have I have a case stick in the chamber and that was because I neglected to trim the brass... Otherwise, the bolt opens as easily as it closes.

I seat my bullets .030" off the lands. That puts me at 2.854" (base to ogive). They're tto long to fit in my mag.

I've got the Hornady comparator... Also Redding Type S Match Neck Sizer Bushing yada yada yada dies. With a micrometer bullet seating die. I usually keep them within .001"
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

If your bolt isn't sticking, primer pockets aren't becoming loose or see signs of blow back,see stress lines on your cases...keep firing a way you're fine.

You are absolutelty in pressure and as the hotter days of summer approach you maybe way too hot if not using temp sense powder so just be aware of that
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 25MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your bolt isn't sticking, primer pockets aren't becoming loose or see signs of blow back,see stress lines on your cases...keep firing a way you're fine.

You are absolutelty in pressure and as the hotter days of summer approach you maybe way too hot if not using temp sense powder so just be aware of that

</div></div>

Mostly agree, but ejector marks and cratering on primers usually are overpressure signs. I'd call that your max load for that powder/bullet combo. Sounds like you're doing everything else right.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

I'm not too worried about the temperature sensativity, just because it's Hodgdon's "Extreme" line of powders... It's supposed to be resistance or at least much less sensative to temperature variations...

Thanks for the input, I've been playing with the idea of going back to the ol' drawing board... And I think that's just what I'll do...
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Your pressure signs are not that bad man...if your happy with the load and you're in a good accuracy node, stay right there...but as mentioned above, I wouldn't go any hotter, but you are fine there.

Your call...


 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Between the cratering and ejector marks, I wouldn't shoot those loads in much warmer weather.....
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

my 338rum is leaving slight marks but every body i show they say its fine its its a large bore for ya mine is shooting good with the load though
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

That seems a bit hot, but I get the same visual indicators with my Windrunner M98 with 89g of H1000 - SMK 300's, Lapua brass.

Is 92g of H1000 with the Berger 300 OTM's a compressed load?
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Nope. Sure isn't... I did have an interesting occurance on the weekend. I went back to the drawing board and was working with on a ladder test. Started at 81 ending at 92 in 0.5gr increments. I don't know why, but 82 missed the target completely and had the worst pressure signs out of any other round... I must've eff'd up somewhere on my reloading process... I marked this test as inconclusive.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Interesting. H1000 is tricky like that; I guess from it being a really slow powder. No joke, my ladder from 84g to 93g was interesting. All of the even numbers in the 80's were crap (84g being the worst) but the odd grains grouped much tighter. I settled on the 87g loads after I ran a 10-shot string though the same cloverleaf. These 87g H1000/300 SMK loads chrono @ 2795 fps with an ES of 21 and SD of around 9.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

That's interesting... Now that I think back, it seems to me that i was getting similar results on earlier tests... Weird...

Which rifle are you shooting?
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

EDM Windrunner M98 (.338LM)

I got the same results with a 30" barrel and a 24" barrel, so it wasn't harmonics I believe. I have a buddy with a TRG in 338LM that experiences roughly the same thing as us too.

I just bought an AWSM 338 so I'll run that ladder again and see how it goes. Roughly, I expect the same results though : (
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

It's too hot by the look of your cases. I don't know how some of you guys who posted above can sit there and say "You're fine". <span style="font-weight: bold">You're not</span>!

It's only a matter of time before you break the ejector on that bolt...as Savages are wont to do under max pressure.

You need to do one of three things to alleviate pressure. Seat the bullets deeper, use less powder or go to a slower powder than H1000. For that case and bullet, I personally think H1000 is a little too fast.

Seating the bullet a little deeper allows the bullet to get a little run at the lands. By doing so, it doesn't stop there and allow pressure to spike. Even though you are running with Bergers, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to load right up to the lands. I see no point in loading right to the lands anyhow, unless you are benchrest shooting. Yes, there is that tiny little bit of accuracy gained/lost by doing or not doing it, but when it comes to long range, the minimal amount doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

As to using less powder, that's usually the first thing people should try. So, even though I mentioned seating the bullets deeper, you might try this and work up with bullets backed off the lands a ways. Run a ladder and see where you start getting marks on your case. You should also have a chronograph to see what your velocities are. Sometimes it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to just keep pushing a rifle for more velocity, when what you get is all your gonna get out of it without over-pressuring cases.

And lastly, you may consider a slower powder. There are a few powders that are slower than H1000. You may also consider going to a double base slower powder to get that little extra pressure, but just not during the ignition of the powder.

One note here: Even though H1000 is less temp sensitive, doesn't mean you won't be popping primers or worse, come the heat of summer. When you have the case loaded as hot as you do, you will go through the burn retardant and you will be over-pressuring your rifle. You might look into Reloader 25, Retumbo, AA8700 or see if you can get some of the surplus .50 cal powders out there. They actually work better than most people think.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Oh for sure, I agree with most of what you said. As I've posted above, I'm going back to the drawing board and doing a ladder test. Also, I'm not on the lands, I'm seated at 0.030" jump, yes it's close, but that's where I found this bullet to shoot the best, even though Berger and many others claim that the OTM's are not sensative to seating depth.

A big reason why I went with H1000 is the availability... Retumbo and slower, seem to be hard to come by in most places up here (Canada). We're not as fortunate as our brothers to the south... What with your (seems to me) unlimited resources...

It is a work in progress, and I do appreciate the input. I went out on Sunday to do a ladder test... But I was not able to complete it. Hopefully I'll get out this weekend, or even during the week.
 
Re: Should I be concerned?

Flat and cratered primers do not always denote overpressure. You can get exactly the same signs by having excessive head space. If you are full length resizing every time it is really important to make sure you are not bumping the shoulder back too far. If that is the case, the firing pin can kick the case deeper into the chamber allowing the primer to back out of the case slightly and then the case expands to the rear and fills out the chamber flattening and cratering the primer. I experienced similar signs in a number of rifles. Once I started neck resizing it went away completely. When it becomes a tight fit in the chamber I use a Redding body bump die and move the shoulder back so I am back to correct head space. Still if you are going to try to fix it using this method I would still back off my max load and then sneak up on it again while neck resizing.