Should I choose.223 for a "trainer rifle"?

[ShhDontMove]

Hey guys, I'm trying to get into long range shooting and want to get/build my first rifle. I want to get a trainer rifle and get proficient with it. I'm thinking a .223 bolt action rifle would be a good choice. I shoot but have never reloaded and want to get into the reloading arena. I shoot .45 ACP and 9mm, and I have an AR15 chambered in 5.56. I figured a .223 trainer would help me learn the fundamentals of precision shooting and provide a relatively cheap round to learn reloading. Plus I could reload for my AR15. When I got comfortable enough I could even try and push out the range of a .223 rifle and learn how to read the wind.

The plan is to either get a Remington .223 Rifle. OR get a Remington action, throw on a decent barrel, and find a nice chassis that I can use later down the road for a custom built action like Defiance.

My long term goal is to have a custom built rifle for shooting out to 1,000 meters, most likely in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I see a lot of people use .22 for trainer rifles, and I won't turn down the idea, but I think it'd be neat to have a rifle with a bit more punch. So my question is, do you think picking a .223 rifle to learn precision shooting is a good idea? Or would you recommend a different caliber? Money isnt a cocern, but I do not want to be throwing money in all directions - I know a lot of people would say cry once buy once and get a 6.5 CM right off the bat, but I want to be damn sure LR shooting is for me before I dive off the deep end.

 

[BoilerUP]

my question is, do you think picking a .223 rifle to learn precision shooting is a good idea?

Yes - you might be surprised what a properly built 223 can do at extended ranges.

A 700 Tactical with 1:9 barrel, a new stock and trigger and you'll be off to the races. 75gr HPBT and 77gr SMK/CC should be plenty stable through the 1:9, though 69s might be more accurate.

A used/new old stock Tikka with 1:8 barrel would be even better.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Might be.

With the current (and possibly long term) unavailability of .22LR ammunition, .223 becomes a viable option. I have recently found and bought 500rd 'spamcan' containers of TulAmmo 55gr FMJ steel cased .223 at Wal-Mart priced at $119.95 plus tax. Less the tax, that come out to $.24 per round, and it's actually available.

Now I understand that it's not match grade, and some will explain that steelcase is not reloadable.

They would be wrong.

The TulAmmo 55gr FMJ steelcase is Boxer primed, and can be reloaded several times.

Edited 6/22/14 to add:

There is a caveat, and it is that the steel cases have a significantly smaller case capacity. By smaller, I suggest starting with the assumption that you will reach max at 2 or 3gr less powder charge than the book says for brass cases. The admonition about starting low and working up goes double in this instance. I have reviewed book loads for .222 Rem and .233 Rem, and concluded that the TulAmmo steel .223's case capacity falls somewhere in between the two, with my estimate putting it somewhat closer to the .222's than the .223's.

I avoid hot loads and caution against them. I have yet to see a split case neck.

Also, the steel cases exhibit no tendency toward primer pocket growth. The other side of this coin is that case-related pressure signs are unreliable. Stiff bolt on extraction and primer flattening/cratering signs will still work as they would with brass cases.

My basic regimen is to soak and rinse the cases at the earliest opportunity, using Dawn; dry them and then use them as I would any brass cases. I have yet to see any rust, or serious evidence of issues regarding the polymer case coating. At most, it's lost some of its gloss.

I suggest this scenario. 22LR is typically fired on targets spaced at 50yd. Maybe, just maybe, the dispersion of the TulAmmo could be comparable to 22LR at that distance. Then, regardless of the dispersion disadvantage the TulAmmo may have as viewed against .223 match ammo, it's still fairly likely to be better than 22LR at distances beyond 100yd.

For argument's sake let's assume somebody bought two spamcans of the stuff. By using a collet puller, one may pull down and harvest the cartridge components from the 1000 rounds.

Sacrificing 100 rounds' worth, some rudimentary load development could be accomplished. It may not meet match performance spec, but it should end up being a decent amount more accurate than the factory load in the rifle where it was developed. Taking the best results and reassembling the rest of the components to that spec could provide more accurate ammo at a nominal cost of around 3 or 4 for $1.00.

After the initial firing, these same cases can still be reloaded with 'more reputable' components several more times, but the cases must be treated as having reduced capacity and loads must be worked up from scratch using lower charge weight stating points and max limits. If some of the cases could not be recovered, the cringe factor could be greatly reduced. The economic advantages of this cannot be lost on experienced handloaders.

Greg

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Get a .223 factory gun with a 1/9 twist, and at least 20 inches of barrel, then, when shooting something like the 75 grain AMAX, you can use the rifle at 1000 yards in addition to using it for training at reduced course targets. It's the reduced course of fire BTW which allows a spotting scope to see shots, which when plotted in your data book will help to you to notice trends and build confidence. That's the purpose of training for 1000 yards.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

.223 without a doubt. Why spend the money on a .22LR when you can have so much more gun with the .223. My practice rifle is a .223 built on a Stiller Tac30 action with a 22" Bartlien barrel. I pull my match rifle out of the chassis, drop the .223 barreled action back in it and I'm ready to go.

I shoot a 80gr Berger VLD at 2,870fps and its plenty easy to hit steel at 800+ yards.

 

[dariof]

I have a .223/5.56 (Rock-River Ar & Savage Trophy Hunter XP) both with 1:9 twist. Both are completely stock.

I shoot 70 GR VLD for the longer distances . I'm using a Vortex Viper PST 6x25x50 (FFP) with a 20 MOA rail on my Savage. I can reach out to 800 yards, but it has to be fairly calm so that little bullet doesn't blow away.

For shorter distances I use a 55 GR Hornady B/T with 24.5 GR TAC, or 25.1 Varget.

This is an excellent round, reloading components for it are easy to get and they are not too expensive.

Once I learn the principles of longer range shooting with this round, I too am going to get a 6.5/284.

The pic I posted is a 3-shot group at 100 yards with the Savage 223, loaded with 55 Gr. Hornady B/T and 24.5 Gr. TAC.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I have a .223/5.56 (Rock-River Ar & Savage Trophy Hunter XP) both with 1:9 twist. Both are completely stock.

I shoot 70 GR VLD for the longer distances . I'm using a Vortex Viper PST 6x25x50 (FFP) with a 20 MOA rail on my Savage. I can reach out to 800 yards, but it has to be fairly calm so that little bullet doesn't blow away.

For shorter distances I use a 55 GR Hornady B/T with 24.5 GR TAC, or 25.1 Varget.

This is an excellent round, reloading components for it are easy to get and they are not too expensive.

Once I learn the principles of longer range shooting with this round, I too am going to get a 6.5/284.

The pic I posted is a 3-shot group at 100 yards with the Savage 223, loaded with 55 Gr. Hornady B/T and 24.5 Gr. TAC.

View attachment 37368

I shoot 6.5/284 in NRA match and any/any LR events, no doubt, it's a laser; but, it's expensive, especially with such a short barrel life. Shooting my match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A2 with irons at 1000 is a lot more fun and less expensive. While I can clean with the 6.5/284, 93% is about all I can typically muster with the Service Rifle in prevailing wind.

 

[OF&B]

Hey guys, I'm trying to get into long range shooting and want to get/build my first rifle. I want to get a trainer rifle and get proficient with it. I'm thinking a .223 bolt action rifle would be a good choice. I shoot but have never reloaded and want to get into the reloading arena. I shoot .45 ACP and 9mm, and I have an AR15 chambered in 5.56. I figured a .223 trainer would help me learn the fundamentals of precision shooting and provide a relatively cheap round to learn reloading. Plus I could reload for my AR15. When I got comfortable enough I could even try and push out the range of a .223 rifle and learn how to read the wind.

The plan is to either get a Remington .223 Rifle. OR get a Remington action, throw on a decent barrel, and find a nice chassis that I can use later down the road for a custom built action like Defiance.

My long term goal is to have a custom built rifle for shooting out to 1,000 meters, most likely in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I see a lot of people use .22 for trainer rifles, and I won't turn down the idea, but I think it'd be neat to have a rifle with a bit more punch. So my question is, do you think picking a .223 rifle to learn precision shooting is a good idea? Or would you recommend a different caliber? Money isnt a cocern, but I do not want to be throwing money in all directions - I know a lot of people would say cry once buy once and get a 6.5 CM right off the bat, but I want to be damn sure LR shooting is for me before I dive off the deep end.

The 223 is an excellent round to train for long distances. The distance and wind effects basically scale to the bullets ballistic coefficient, so it also solves the problem of finding an extremely long range to shoot at. Shooting a bullet with a 0.250 ballistic coefficient at 500 yards is more or less like shooting one with 0.500 at 1000. That's not 1:1 true, but you get the idea. Shooting 55 grain spire points to 600 yards is either maddening or humorous depending on your mood because they drift so much with so little wind. With a 77 grain, a 50% hit ratio on an 18x24 target at 1km doesn't take exceptional skill or calm conditions. Under the same conditions the 6.5 CM is much easier, but you'll appreciated it more if you've done the drill with the 223.

The 223 is also an ideal round to go through the rites of passage on reloading because components are so available. They're not available on demand these days, but they are available in reasonable time periods if you plan ahead. You're going to try some things that don't work, might as well be ruining cheap components.

I'd skip the step with buying the bolt gun and go with the AR. Another upper for the one you have, or just use what you've got if it has a 1:9 twist or faster. There is a lot of pride of ownership with the gun, but it's really the least important part of the system. Shooter - bullet - optic - ......gun. If you decide this is for you, the optic can move to the next gun and the AR can go back to what it was doing. With the right bullet, under calm conditions and the math done correctly, hitting a man at 1km is no more difficult that hitting a cell phone at 100. Any free floated AR using hand loads will do that with ease. If it's not calm or your solver is off, you have exactly the same problem with a 1 moa gun as a 1/4 moa gun. If you decide to bail, the optic is a lot easier to get rid of than a highly personalized gun. Plan on spending a minimum of $750 on the scope to really find out what this is about. You'll be able to get by without a range finder for awhile at kd ranges or using a gps, but it'll be the next thing after a scope that you'll need.

I have a 6.5 CM and enjoy shooting it. It is a big step beyond 308, but the super 6s are the next step beyond it and probably the direction I'd go knowing what I know now. Another reason to start with the 223, you'll figure out what's important and how to calculate the actual differences before you start spending too much more.

I have 22 trainers as well, but mostly use them for close up sling work to develop shooting fundamentals rather than long distance.

We're talking about your next rifle, and not your only rifle right?

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

 

[dariof]

The 223 is an excellent round to train for long distances. The distance and wind effects basically scale to the bullets ballistic coefficient, so it also solves the problem of finding an extremely long range to shoot at. Shooting a bullet with a 0.250 ballistic coefficient at 500 yards is more or less like shooting one with 0.500 at 1000. That's not 1:1 true, but you get the idea. Shooting 55 grain spire points to 600 yards is either maddening or humorous depending on your mood because they drift so much with so little wind. With a 77 grain, a 50% hit ratio on an 18x24 target at 1km doesn't take exceptional skill or calm conditions. Under the same conditions the 6.5 CM is much easier, but you'll appreciated it more if you've done the drill with the 223.

The 223 is also an ideal round to go through the rites of passage on reloading because components are so available. They're not available on demand these days, but they are available in reasonable time periods if you plan ahead. You're going to try some things that don't work, might as well be ruining cheap components.

I'd skip the step with buying the bolt gun and go with the AR. Another upper for the one you have, or just use what you've got if it has a 1:9 twist or faster. There is a lot of pride of ownership with the gun, but it's really the least important part of the system. Shooter - bullet - optic - ......gun. If you decide this is for you, the optic can move to the next gun and the AR can go back to what it was doing. With the right bullet, under calm conditions and the math done correctly, hitting a man at 1km is no more difficult that hitting a cell phone at 100. Any free floated AR using hand loads will do that with ease. If it's not calm or your solver is off, you have exactly the same problem with a 1 moa gun as a 1/4 moa gun. If you decide to bail, the optic is a lot easier to get rid of than a highly personalized gun. Plan on spending a minimum of $750 on the scope to really find out what this is about. You'll be able to get by without a range finder for awhile at kd ranges or using a gps, but it'll be the next thing after a scope that you'll need.

I have a 6.5 CM and enjoy shooting it. It is a big step beyond 308, but the super 6s are the next step beyond it and probably the direction I'd go knowing what I know now. Another reason to start with the 223, you'll figure out what's important and how to calculate the actual differences before you start spending too much more.

I have 22 trainers as well, but mostly use them for close up sling work to develop shooting fundamentals rather than long distance.

We're talking about your next rifle, and not your only rifle right?

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Very nice post.......

You touched on the reason I am so 'up' on the .223. I want to learn the fundamentals with this round.....shooter, ballistics, glass, reloading (Forester/Redding dies, seating from lands, powder charges, groups, concentricity, annealing, etc)......then take these fundamentals to the next rifle......6.5/284 either custom or stock (probably Savage 12 F Class).

 

[ShhDontMove]

Thanks for the advice guys, I like the different AR15 upper idea, that sounds pretty smart, now I've gotta decide which one lol

 

[emdeucee]

You can find a nice bolt gun for cheap. Howa makes the 1500 and it is great out of the box and will run you under $500. Im glad i started precision shooting with .223 because of the cost difference vs i.e. 308. There is no need to spend so much on a custom rifle until later and rather spend that money on a decent scope.

 

[projectpat0]

I used to have a .22 trainer but its pretty much just a big stick now. It's hard to say if or when that variety of ammo will become readily available. With my luck, it will become readily available the second I buy a 223 trainer. Maybe I should take one for the team...

 

[Angmo]

I've started with 5.56 and worked through to .300 mag. I shot rather well and had it rather figured out.

Or so I thought....

Then I had to friggin go and buy an Anschutz .22 target rifle (with all the plumbing) and suddenly was in a new world of learning what trigger control really was all about. I had no idea the effect a finger and grip played with accuracy. I had no idea what a crappy shooter I truly was. Nothing like putting 5 or 10 in the same hole to learn something. Not a ragged hole, a single hole. A ragged hole earns you 8th place or probably worse... A real humbling experience. Luckily, I had a friend on the US Olympic shooting team who invested his time into showing me how to actually shoot. Of course, I got him interested in military arms at the same time. Great guy. Excellent teacher on those subtle little things you'd never consider. After trigger control comes mind control.

So, yeah, from what I've gone through, if you don't start out on one, try it out after you're pretty happy with your shooting. It will definitely improve your skills.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Please note the update to my 5/06 post. Important safety info added.

Greg