I have an AICS 2.0. Removed a 40x from a bedded wooden stock and bolted it up in the AICS 2.0. It is unbedded and I noted it being able to rock back and forth centering at just behind the front action screw. Is this normal?
Gunsmithing Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
- Thread starter match308
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Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
Once tightened, it should not be moving at all. If the barreld action is just laying in the chassis, no screws, then yes, it'll wobble front to back.
Once tightened, it should not be moving at all. If the barreld action is just laying in the chassis, no screws, then yes, it'll wobble front to back.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once torqued to spec, the wobble is gone. Just wondered if I was stressing the action. </div></div>
In an un-bedded chassis, I can guarantee you stress is present.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once torqued to spec, the wobble is gone. Just wondered if I was stressing the action. </div></div>
In an un-bedded chassis, I can guarantee you stress is present.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the fix a bedding ofthe area just foreward of the lug? </div></div>
I recently made the policy change that I would not offer an accuracy guarantee with my builds when using an AI Chassis that were not skim bedded.
In short, your answer is yes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the fix a bedding ofthe area just foreward of the lug? </div></div>
I recently made the policy change that I would not offer an accuracy guarantee with my builds when using an AI Chassis that were not skim bedded.
In short, your answer is yes.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you bed the rear tang as well? </div></div>
Yes, front and rear of the receiver to include the recoil lug area.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you bed the rear tang as well? </div></div>
Yes, front and rear of the receiver to include the recoil lug area.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
are you sure the trigger is not binding? some custom made triggers requre removing some material for them to work properly
are you sure the trigger is not binding? some custom made triggers requre removing some material for them to work properly
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the fix a bedding ofthe area just foreward of the lug? </div></div>
no. forward of the lug has nothing to do with anything. in my opinion, it is best to install it exactly the way the instructions recommend and go shoot the thing. if there is as much stress in the action as some people want to make you believe, you wouldn't be able to cycle the bolt.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Match308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the fix a bedding ofthe area just foreward of the lug? </div></div>
no. forward of the lug has nothing to do with anything. in my opinion, it is best to install it exactly the way the instructions recommend and go shoot the thing. if there is as much stress in the action as some people want to make you believe, you wouldn't be able to cycle the bolt.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
+1^^^
Drop the barreled action into the stock, torque the screws per the instructions, and go shoot it. Odds are it will shoot just as good as it did in the other stock or better.
If you are using an X-Mark or some custom trigger such as a Jewell double check to be sure there is no interference.
+1^^^
Drop the barreled action into the stock, torque the screws per the instructions, and go shoot it. Odds are it will shoot just as good as it did in the other stock or better.
If you are using an X-Mark or some custom trigger such as a Jewell double check to be sure there is no interference.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
Not to argue with 300Sniper or Randy, both are very good and have my respect but, after all is at proper torque, loosen the front guard screw and tell us what the barrel did. Did it rise up from the chassis or not. If it did, there's torque present even if you can cycle the bolt.
Not to argue with 300Sniper or Randy, both are very good and have my respect but, after all is at proper torque, loosen the front guard screw and tell us what the barrel did. Did it rise up from the chassis or not. If it did, there's torque present even if you can cycle the bolt.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
^^
So what, how does it shoot?
300sniper and myself never said there was or wasn't "stress". Some things are just over blown. I've done more then enough to know when it comes to the AICS more times then not the rifle will shoot better then the shooter pulling the trigger.
^^
So what, how does it shoot?
300sniper and myself never said there was or wasn't "stress". Some things are just over blown. I've done more then enough to know when it comes to the AICS more times then not the rifle will shoot better then the shooter pulling the trigger.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^
So what, how does it shoot?
300sniper and myself never said there was or wasn't "stress". Some things are just over blown. I've done more then enough to know when it comes to the AICS more times then not the rifle will shoot better then the shooter pulling the trigger. </div></div>
that is kind of where i am at. when it comes to a vee block stock/chassis, i am not sold on the standard "stress test" being an indicator of how the rifle will shoot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^
So what, how does it shoot?
300sniper and myself never said there was or wasn't "stress". Some things are just over blown. I've done more then enough to know when it comes to the AICS more times then not the rifle will shoot better then the shooter pulling the trigger. </div></div>
that is kind of where i am at. when it comes to a vee block stock/chassis, i am not sold on the standard "stress test" being an indicator of how the rifle will shoot.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
Not trying to argue with you guys. He asked and I gave my opinion, nothing more or less. I'm out.
Not trying to argue with you guys. He asked and I gave my opinion, nothing more or less. I'm out.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
I've worked with quite a few AICS chassis systems and I can say that they work very well without any bedding at all. I can also say that they work significantly better when they are bedded. I've done a test on two different rifles in two different chassis' and both shot well without bedding (just under 1/2 MOA). I bedded them both (and I don't skim bed anything, I'm talking full bed jobs) and they shot under my 3/8 MOA guarantee (average of 5, 5 shot groups); in fact, very close to 1/4 MOA. Is it a good system without bedding? Yes. Is it better with bedding? Absolutely.
When it comes to stress in the system, I attribute the issue more to the inconsistencies along the length of the receiver than any issues with the chassis and I've noticed far better fit to the chassis when using the Skunkworks actions as opposed to the Remington.
There are good points on both sides and anyone with a torque wrench should be able to install a barreled action in an AICS and go to the range and shoot well. However, if you want to drain as much accuracy out of the system as possible, a full bed job is the way to go.
I've worked with quite a few AICS chassis systems and I can say that they work very well without any bedding at all. I can also say that they work significantly better when they are bedded. I've done a test on two different rifles in two different chassis' and both shot well without bedding (just under 1/2 MOA). I bedded them both (and I don't skim bed anything, I'm talking full bed jobs) and they shot under my 3/8 MOA guarantee (average of 5, 5 shot groups); in fact, very close to 1/4 MOA. Is it a good system without bedding? Yes. Is it better with bedding? Absolutely.
When it comes to stress in the system, I attribute the issue more to the inconsistencies along the length of the receiver than any issues with the chassis and I've noticed far better fit to the chassis when using the Skunkworks actions as opposed to the Remington.
There are good points on both sides and anyone with a torque wrench should be able to install a barreled action in an AICS and go to the range and shoot well. However, if you want to drain as much accuracy out of the system as possible, a full bed job is the way to go.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
HateCA, 300sniper, wnroscoe, Skunkworks,
Gentlemen the input in this thread alone speaks volumes about you guys. A question was asked, You guys gave your expert opinions with experiences added in to support your opinions. All without being dicks, and trying to stand up and beat your chests. This is so refreshing. The end user, us shooters, can really make clear decisions on what to do with our rifles based on your recommendations. If you want to drop the rifle in and shoot it go ahaead, if your not 100% happy with it choose one of the competent gunsmiths here and have the chassis bedded.
I thank you all for answering so many of the questions that I have asked.
Respectfully,
Jack
Can the next time one of you guys bed the AICS can you take pics and show where the stress is and what the bedding does to relieve it?
HateCA, 300sniper, wnroscoe, Skunkworks,
Gentlemen the input in this thread alone speaks volumes about you guys. A question was asked, You guys gave your expert opinions with experiences added in to support your opinions. All without being dicks, and trying to stand up and beat your chests. This is so refreshing. The end user, us shooters, can really make clear decisions on what to do with our rifles based on your recommendations. If you want to drop the rifle in and shoot it go ahaead, if your not 100% happy with it choose one of the competent gunsmiths here and have the chassis bedded.
I thank you all for answering so many of the questions that I have asked.
Respectfully,
Jack
Can the next time one of you guys bed the AICS can you take pics and show where the stress is and what the bedding does to relieve it?
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
How is the relationship between the AI(AW/AE) rifles and their stocks?
I thought I heard somewhere they are put permanently together. "Bonded", is the term I think AI uses. Is this true?
How does the inletting on the AE/AW stocks compare to an AICS?
Do you think AI would drop in Remington barreled actions, or do you think they'd bed them? The AICS directions may not say to bed, but theyd have a harder time selling a $1000 stock if they admitted it still needs gunsmith fitting.
Just some things I considered.
How is the relationship between the AI(AW/AE) rifles and their stocks?
I thought I heard somewhere they are put permanently together. "Bonded", is the term I think AI uses. Is this true?
How does the inletting on the AE/AW stocks compare to an AICS?
Do you think AI would drop in Remington barreled actions, or do you think they'd bed them? The AICS directions may not say to bed, but theyd have a harder time selling a $1000 stock if they admitted it still needs gunsmith fitting.
Just some things I considered.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is the relationship between the AI(AW/AE) rifles and their stocks?
I thought I heard somewhere they are put permanently together. "Bonded", is the term I think AI uses. Is this true?
How does the inletting on the AE/AW stocks compare to an AICS?
Do you think AI would drop in Remington barreled actions, or do you think they'd bed them? The AICS directions may not say to bed, but theyd have a harder time selling a $1000 stock if they admitted it still needs gunsmith fitting.
Just some things I considered.
</div></div>
the ai's are flat bottom bonded to a flat top chassis. the aics don't NEED gunsmith fitting. like mike said, in his experience (which i really appreciate someone putting some numbers to back up their opinion), the accuracy did improve with bedding. in reality for a tactical type rifle, the results he was getting before bedding was better than most people can shoot. hell, i have a hard time holding 1/2" and sure can't shoot 1/4" groups but i still win matches now and then (last weekend sure as hell wasn't even close to one of those wins
)
from a builder's standpoint where you have an accuracy guarantee on turn-key rifles, i can see bedding it. for the rest of the guys that buy aics asking if they are indeed "drop-in", i'd say they sure are for a factory remington. they are exactly what they are advertised to be.
edit: when i rebarrel my .284 in a couple months, maybe i'll bed the chassis and see first hand if it increases the accuracy to a point that makes up for my bad wind calls.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is the relationship between the AI(AW/AE) rifles and their stocks?
I thought I heard somewhere they are put permanently together. "Bonded", is the term I think AI uses. Is this true?
How does the inletting on the AE/AW stocks compare to an AICS?
Do you think AI would drop in Remington barreled actions, or do you think they'd bed them? The AICS directions may not say to bed, but theyd have a harder time selling a $1000 stock if they admitted it still needs gunsmith fitting.
Just some things I considered.
</div></div>
the ai's are flat bottom bonded to a flat top chassis. the aics don't NEED gunsmith fitting. like mike said, in his experience (which i really appreciate someone putting some numbers to back up their opinion), the accuracy did improve with bedding. in reality for a tactical type rifle, the results he was getting before bedding was better than most people can shoot. hell, i have a hard time holding 1/2" and sure can't shoot 1/4" groups but i still win matches now and then (last weekend sure as hell wasn't even close to one of those wins
from a builder's standpoint where you have an accuracy guarantee on turn-key rifles, i can see bedding it. for the rest of the guys that buy aics asking if they are indeed "drop-in", i'd say they sure are for a factory remington. they are exactly what they are advertised to be.
edit: when i rebarrel my .284 in a couple months, maybe i'll bed the chassis and see first hand if it increases the accuracy to a point that makes up for my bad wind calls.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
after today's rainy and windy long range match, i needed to pull my action from the aics to dry it out since it was about to be locked in the safe for a month. i can't remember the last time i have had the action out of the aics but i know it is well over a year. i decided to try the "stress test". i loosened the front screw and left the rear torqued (exactly opposite of what any vee block chassis manufacture would recommend, by the way). sure enough, the front of the action lifted away from the chassis by about an eighth of an inch. the rifle still shoots damn good and i'm sitting in second place over-all for the 2010 local long range tactical matches. i can guarantee that bedding the stock wouldn't put me in first place. being a better wind reader and trigger puller is what is going to make that difference.
after today's rainy and windy long range match, i needed to pull my action from the aics to dry it out since it was about to be locked in the safe for a month. i can't remember the last time i have had the action out of the aics but i know it is well over a year. i decided to try the "stress test". i loosened the front screw and left the rear torqued (exactly opposite of what any vee block chassis manufacture would recommend, by the way). sure enough, the front of the action lifted away from the chassis by about an eighth of an inch. the rifle still shoots damn good and i'm sitting in second place over-all for the 2010 local long range tactical matches. i can guarantee that bedding the stock wouldn't put me in first place. being a better wind reader and trigger puller is what is going to make that difference.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">after today's rainy and windy long range match, i needed to pull my action from the aics to dry it out since it was about to be locked in the safe for a month. i can't remember the last time i have had the action out of the aics but i know it is well over a year. i decided to try the "stress test". i loosened the front screw and left the rear torqued (exactly opposite of what any vee block chassis manufacture would recommend, by the way). sure enough, the front of the action lifted away from the chassis by about an eighth of an inch. the rifle still shoots damn good and i'm sitting in second place over-all for the 2010 local long range tactical matches. i can guarantee that bedding the stock wouldn't put me in first place. being a better wind reader and trigger puller is what is going to make that difference. </div></div>
This will happed 99.9% of the time with a Remington and the AICS. This is directly due to the shape of the tang (and the position of the rear action screw in the tang) on the receiver and the shape of the stock under the tang not giving the tang full support. Loosen the front screw and the action wants to rock back into the tang. A different tang design or if the stock was shaped differently to better support the tang this wouldn't happen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">after today's rainy and windy long range match, i needed to pull my action from the aics to dry it out since it was about to be locked in the safe for a month. i can't remember the last time i have had the action out of the aics but i know it is well over a year. i decided to try the "stress test". i loosened the front screw and left the rear torqued (exactly opposite of what any vee block chassis manufacture would recommend, by the way). sure enough, the front of the action lifted away from the chassis by about an eighth of an inch. the rifle still shoots damn good and i'm sitting in second place over-all for the 2010 local long range tactical matches. i can guarantee that bedding the stock wouldn't put me in first place. being a better wind reader and trigger puller is what is going to make that difference. </div></div>
This will happed 99.9% of the time with a Remington and the AICS. This is directly due to the shape of the tang (and the position of the rear action screw in the tang) on the receiver and the shape of the stock under the tang not giving the tang full support. Loosen the front screw and the action wants to rock back into the tang. A different tang design or if the stock was shaped differently to better support the tang this wouldn't happen.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This will happed 99.9% of the time with a Remington and the AICS. This is directly due to the shape of the tang (and the position of the rear action screw in the tang) on the receiver and the shape of the stock under the tang not giving the tang full support. Loosen the front screw and the action wants to rock back into the tang. A different tang design or if the stock was shaped differently to better support the tang this wouldn't happen. </div></div>
yep. i was just reinforcing the point that just because the "stress test" shows movement in an aics, doesn't mean the rifle won't shoot. if you torque the front screw first like recommend, it pulls the entire bearing surface of the receiver against the chassis, minus the boat tail shaped tang. this is pretty obvious when you loosen the rear screw of a torqued chassis and the receiver does not spring up out of the chassis.
will bedding an aics improve accuracy? quite possibly. will i be able to take advantage of that improvement? i doubt it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This will happed 99.9% of the time with a Remington and the AICS. This is directly due to the shape of the tang (and the position of the rear action screw in the tang) on the receiver and the shape of the stock under the tang not giving the tang full support. Loosen the front screw and the action wants to rock back into the tang. A different tang design or if the stock was shaped differently to better support the tang this wouldn't happen. </div></div>
yep. i was just reinforcing the point that just because the "stress test" shows movement in an aics, doesn't mean the rifle won't shoot. if you torque the front screw first like recommend, it pulls the entire bearing surface of the receiver against the chassis, minus the boat tail shaped tang. this is pretty obvious when you loosen the rear screw of a torqued chassis and the receiver does not spring up out of the chassis.
will bedding an aics improve accuracy? quite possibly. will i be able to take advantage of that improvement? i doubt it.
Re: Should my Action "wobble" in my AICS?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackinfl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Randy,
What is the fix? Bed the rear tang?
Jack </div></div>
Pretty much, if indeed it needs to be fixed, that's what you have to ask yourself and will you see the difference in the rifle for its intended use. Most won't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackinfl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Randy,
What is the fix? Bed the rear tang?
Jack </div></div>
Pretty much, if indeed it needs to be fixed, that's what you have to ask yourself and will you see the difference in the rifle for its intended use. Most won't.
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