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Create a channel Learn moreEver shoot a seating depth ladder at distance? If so, were you using .010 or .005 increments? That tells you your question is inconsequential. OAL also doesn’t matter because the only thing the bullet tip touches is the target.That’s off topic.
Ever shoot a seating depth ladder at distance? If so, were you using .010 or .005 increments? That tells you your question is inconsequential. OAL also doesn’t matter because the only thing the bullet tip touches is the target.
The other issue with all your arguments is how are you measuring all this? How do you know your calipers are calibrated correctly, I don’t care what brand or how much was spent. The same thing applies to how we measure cbto, you’re not actually measuring the true depth of your throat (thats what she said), but rather a reference or datum to base off of. Do you really think pushing something with your fingers and then measuring it is a precise procedure? How strong is your thumb? Go pose all this stuff to a machinist and prepare to be schooled.
Also, I bet you’re fun at parties.
I’m exactly on subject. Or did you change the argument after your original arguments were proven inconsequential?You’re not on subject… honest shit somewhere else.
I’m exactly on subject. Or did you change the argument after your original arguments were proven inconsequential?
The results of a seating depth ladder prove OAL or cbto change in that small of increment is inconsequential. Can you shoot the difference?
The hornady comparator tool is a great little thing to have, but isn’t a precise measuring instrument. Measuring stuff correctly with calibrated tools is kind of a fine art. Again pose these questions to a machinist, its a revelation.
The only thing I shit on, is your trolling attitude.
When did I say that? Seating depth absolutely matters. Differences of .002 don’t, unless you’re riding the edge of the node. Accounting for the firing pin pushing your brass .002 or whatever in your cbto is minutiae, you’re very likely in the same node anyways. Do you shoot your seating depth ladders in cbto of .002 increments?I’m not trolling.. you’re just not answering the I question I asked… and yes I’ve done seating depth ladder and it does matter… you can’t be serious when say your rifle shoots the same regardless of seating depth… that’s bs right there if that’s what you’re saying… I’m tired of your nonsense too bruhhhh… go ride someone else’s dick.
When did I say that? Seating depth absolutely matters. Differences of .002 don’t, unless you’re riding the edge of the node. Accounting for the firing pin pushing your brass .002 or whatever in your cbto is minutiae, you’re very likely in the same node anyways. Do you shoot your seating depth ladders in cbto of .002 increments?
But whatever bruhhhh, you do you.
I don’t think the extractor grabs the rim as you’re suggesting and there is actually clearance between the rim and extractor. If there wasn’t it wouldn’t accommodate different types of brass and would be hung on the side of the rim on thicker brass.
I use a zero press, Lapua brass, and Redding dies. With a mitutoyo caliper I can get a measurable difference in shoulder dimensions. I think you’re way overthinking this.
Pull your bolt, insert a case on the extractor, press it up against the plunger. Buy a set of wire feeler gauges, see how much space is between bolt face and case head. If it's greater than 002-003(normal shoulder bump, your chamber is always going to hold the case in the same position against the plunger/extractor.Trying to understand the mechanics of what is going on, from your statement, in order for the case to be extracted the ejector plunger has to be depressed back far enough to allow the case rim to sit behind the extractor, and due to the strong tension of the factory plunger spring, the plunger is always pushing on the case such that it’s shoulder is up against the chamber shoulder. And the case headspace will always allow clearance between the extractor and case rim until the case shoulder is bumped back to the point where the extractor claw just barely catches the rim, correct? And, from this, can I assume that the case has no forward movement when the firing pin strikes the primer because the case shoulder is already up against the chamber shoulder? And, there is no use trying to find where the shoulder is bumped too far back where there is no longer any shoulder contacts because at the point we wouldn’t be able to extractor the case or there would be misfire because the primer is too far forward , correct?
I was going to bring this up yesterday as well, but it's too much too soon for another ever changing variable to be thrown into this between a bolt and a headspace conundrum!At this point, I could bring up carbon buildup on the throat which can and will change the seating depth of a bullet. It will also rapidly change the pressure curve.
But, I don't bring it up because I'd really hate to be admonished by the OP for straying 3° off topic. (Which is really still on topic)
I was going to bring this up yesterday as well, but it's too much too soon for another ever changing variable to be thrown into this between a bolt and a headspace conundrum!
Or the fact a bushing die typically doesn't size all the neck, leaving a light flare that centers case in chamber no matter what and may also affect headspace! I've always used Alex Wheelers reloading principles(sizing/load development) but in a dumbed down simpler manner. He's built a ton a championship rifles and has held quite a few records himself prior to taking up gunsmithing full time VS shooting.If you're bored, you could always bring small based dies into the conversation...
Trying to understand the mechanics of what is going on, from your statement, in order for the case to be extracted the ejector plunger has to be depressed back far enough to allow the case rim to sit behind the extractor, and due to the strong tension of the factory plunger spring, the plunger is always pushing on the case such that it’s shoulder is up against the chamber shoulder... correct?
And the case headspace will always allow clearance between the extractor and case rim until the case shoulder is bumped back to the point where the extractor claw just barely catches the rim, correct?
And, from this, can I assume that the case has no forward movement when the firing pin strikes the primer because the case shoulder is already up against the chamber shoulder? And, there is no use trying to find where the shoulder is bumped too far back where there is no longer any shoulder contacts because at the point we wouldn’t be able to extractor the case or there would be misfire because the primer is too far forward , correct?
I'm really not sure what the original question was, but it spawned me to measure some things on my own that might be beneficial to the conversation.
This is on an Impact 308 bolt face:
The ejector protrudes .151 from the bolt face
The extractor has .056 clearance from bolt face to inside of the claw
The Lapua brass rim is .050 thick
So as long as the shoulder setback is less than .006 (.056 total clearance-.050 rim thickness) the case shoulder contacts the chamber due to the ejector pushing it forward without any interference from the extractor. The case rim is captured by the extractor in this ideal scenario but not holding it back.
For fun, what happens when the case is bumped more than .006? Any bump from .007 to .056 will result in the extractor riding on top of the case rim right? This is because the push feed system would push the case forward until it contacts the chamber. At this point the extractor is still behind the case rim and hasn't captured it yet. The ejector (which has ample travel) would hold the case forward against the chamber and would compress to match the HS. The extractor would be the last to make contact and would ride up on the edge of the rim and set there during the shot. The case would then expand and move rearward to match the bolt face and the extractor would capture it at that point.
This is how I think it works with an ejector button. I'm not sure how a control feed would work.
I think everyone actually got it a long time ago and was puzzled why it was so hard for one particular party…