• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Sierra or Berger?

R

rsbible

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2010
28
0
50
Kansas
Okay. I know this issue has been addressed before but the latest post in the thread is now several years old and I'd love to hear your thoughts as of today.

Background: I've been hunting for 30 years but have only been reloading for about 5. Likewise, I'm just starting to get into long range/tactical shooting. I've had VERY good success with Sierra in several of my hunting rifles but have never tried Berger.

I'm going to be working up loads for a .243 Win and will probably look to the 95 grain bullets due to the twist rate (1:9.125) in my factory barrel. It shot 105 AMAXs okay (MOA or a little under) but I'd like to do better. I think the 95s will work better until I have the time, money, and desire to replace the factory barrel with a 1:7 or similar. The BCs are identical so...which is "better?" The Sierra or the Berger? You're going to really have to sell me on the Berger as I'm already a Sierra fan.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

I too am a Sierra fan, but IF I had the means to shoot Berger I would. I do shoot Bergers for a very few things but I cannot afford a complete move to Berger for everything I shoot.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

As a longtime user of Sierra, I'm not stupid enough to be closed minded. Bergers are great as I've seen them shoot out of this world. I've never used them, but a buddy of mine does with great success. BUT Sierra has a HUGE plus being the're generally very forgiving on seating depth and $ for $ I don't think anyone can beat them overall. And since they're in Missouri where I am, its awfully nice......they've always invited me for a tour of their facility too.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Great info. Thanks gents. I may give the 105 VLDs a try but Berger recommends a 1:8 twist and I'm running 1:9.125. I'm mostly curious about the 95s. Usually the choice would be easy. I like Sierra so if their BC is better than Berger I can justify it based on cost and previous performance. Here, however, the Berger "buzz" and the fact that their BC is the exact same makes it a little tougher to call. I'm wondering if there is some other advantage I'm overlooking (Cost - Sierra; BC - tie; accuracy - rifle dependent; etc).
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

and don't get to focused solely on BC. There are plenty of bullets with BC claims, but don't all shoot accuately....no. I've posted a couple topics on flatbase and boattail bullets, etc. I know there are people that think I'm nuts, but I'm staying with the bullet my 243 Win(and any other)rifle shoots the best...Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter flatbase. Not a high BC at all, but it shoots so darn good and its very predictable. Long shots, so what, arch it out there to go long. All but given up on the 95 SMK. One day it will group, next day it won't.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

You may wish to pick up a copy of Bryan Litz's book "Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting" second edition.

It has your answers, but to be brief the 95 berger vld has a higher bc than the sierra 95 BTHP and a better stabilty rating for your (and my) twist. But I have not tried it since the 105 VLD worked so well in my 9.125 barrel.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may wish to pick up a copy of Bryan Litz's book "Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting" second edition.

It has your answers, but to be brief the 95 berger vld has a higher bc than the sierra 95 BTHP and a better stabilty rating for your (and my) twist. But I have not tried it since the 105 VLD worked so well in my 9.125 barrel.</div></div>

I may just do that. I didn't have stability issues with the 105 AMAX (they didn't shoot as well as I had hoped but it didn't seem to be related to stability) so I may try the 105 VLDs.

I don't have any H1000. Have you ever tried them with another powder? Based on burn rate, the closest thing I have is IMR 4350. Think I could get it to work or maybe it's too fast and that was part of the problem with the AMAX (not that .75 MOA is a problem...it just wasn't quite what I was hoping for)?

Lastly, approximately how far off the lands do you seat them? Why did you choose to jump them instead of seating to the lands? I assume you got less pressure when jumping and were therefore able to increase velocity a bit?
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

I choose to jump them because while the bullets seated into the lands shot well they had to be run with AI mags to feed due to the OAL. So I played with the jump until it worked and now I can use the standard BDL floorplate mag and use the AI equipped stock for my 223. Purely a convenience issue. I believe my length to the lands is 2.890 and I am seating them at 2.790-2.795

My current load is right at 2930fps and when they were seated against the lands I was at 2890fps so they do seem to run a little faster.

I have not tried any other powders except Rotumbo, I use Lapua brass and can’t fit enough powder into the case with that powder so I tried H1000 because I had some on the shelf. But that is not to say others won’t work well.

I have run several stability models with the 105-107 bullets and all of them are right at the ragged edge of stability. So they may not work for everyone, just all depends on the users altitude, temperature and velocity obtained. But for me at 1000 ASL and temps 40 degrees and up they have been working well.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

I personally like the Sierra 175 SMK for my .308, but I could see myself using the Berger in the future as well...
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

The Berger has a better BC and is slightly more stable with your twist because it is a tiny bit shorter. Still, the SMK should work fine and it's alot cheaper. If your feel like taking a small risk I just wrote to Barnes and got some of their bullet lengths which I forwarded to JBM. The 105gr Barnes Match Burner is only 1.199" long. It will stabilize in your rifle, but might have trouble on a cold day. They claim a .511 G1 which I think is probably an exaggeration, but the Match Burners do tend to be aerodynamic and are very inexpensive.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

At 1.235" I think the Berger 105gr VLD is too risky. You could stabilize the Berger 105gr BT though. It's .050" shorter.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

rsbible

I have a box of 95 gr berger VLD's if you wanna try it out. Its not a full box but about 50-60 bullets left in the box IIRC. Its yours if you want to try it!

PM me your shipping info if you wanna try them and i'll send it out to you.

Aloha!
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 808Huntress</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rsbible

I have a box of 95 gr berger VLD's if you wanna try it out. Its not a full box but about 50-60 bullets left in the box IIRC. Its yours if you want to try it!

PM me your shipping info if you wanna try them and i'll send it out to you.

Aloha! </div></div>

PM Sent
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Lots of great info. Thanks to everyone that has posted. Clearly some knowledgeable folks on here.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

I shot both Berger 175 LRBT and 175 SMK out of my AI and the SMK's shot just as well. Its a field rifle not an BR gun and the SMK's were more tolerant to seating depth as well. At long range will it make a difference, I don't think with all the variables involved, I dont think the Bergers will make a difference. The slight better bc with the Berger I think will go out the window if you make a bad wind call or can't shoot good enough to exploit the minute difference. The SMK's are also easier to get and cheaper than the Bergers. Mind you if I found the Bergers made that much of a difference, I would buy them but they don't in my case.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

You can try to make her like a bullet but you really need her to tell you the way she likes it. Try different sizes, shapes, slow or fast and deep or shallow. Justsee what she responds to. You have to do some experimenting to get her to do what you want.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

my 6.5 x 284 likes the berger vlds, but all my other calibers like the smk, kinda a crap shoot...
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

A little off topic bc I know the ops gun isn't a .30 cal but I shoot the 210 vlds out of my .300 win mag 700 police and I will never shoot another bullet out of that rifle again for hunting. It literally knocks the shit out of them. I shot 4 deer over 375 yards last year farthest being 542 yards and not one of them ever heard a thing. The deer at 542 had it's leg and shoulder broke on the other side of the entrance hole. I could pull it's leg back to the head. Awsome. Awsome Awsome on game.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

The Sierra's are so easy to tune and seating depth tolerant.... I would stick with what you got.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Only your rifle and the target would know "which is better". I guess the driving force would be whether or not you need to shoot long range.

I will second the earlier recommendation to get Brian Litz's "Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting" second edition. I learned more about external ballistics from that book than anything else before.

My take on the situation though; for loading magazine length rounds that will be accurate and dependable for most shooting, Sierra is awesome. But, for long range shots with the ogive 0.015 off the lands Berger VLD's sure have an pretty respectable track record.

Good luck with whatever you do.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Stick with the Sierras. If it ain't broke....

If I were going to shoot at meets and stuff maybe I'd spend that kind of money for bullets. I probably would try the Lapua Scenar though.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Great post , now I can talk about my experience last hunting season with the Berger VLD (hunting orange box ).

Two white tail bucks 8's . #1 -155 lbs and #2-170 LBS . Cal 6.5/55 SE 140 gr Berger vld.

Buck #1 75 yards 6:30 am I shoot him and he just stood there like nothing happen (???#@!@) so I said ok here I come again 2nd shot and he walks to his right like nothing happened, by this time I'm pretty ($#@!@) all year testing and tuning on loads to come and have a scope off.
But the buck stops and is broad side and I decided to shoot for the third time ,I got him on my scope and when I was about to shot HE FELT TO THE GROUND.

Short story the buck had two little holes on his shoulder in and out Yes two little holes in and OUT , but when field dressed looked like a 338 cal passed trough him.

Buck #2 120yards 7:00 am when I shot him he felt to the ground like a sack of potatoes ( wow) shoulder shot ,but a little hole in and A HUGE HOLE COMING OUT (????) .

There is a really nice guy at cabelas in Allen TX on the reloading equipment side and he said I should keep my fps on the Berger in 2600fps when shooting short ranges.

What do you gentleman think ?
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Thanks again for all the great thoughts. I really appreciate the feedback.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

I shoot the Berger 105vld for hunting deer. I have tried the sierra bullets (HPGK)and to get the same group size I have to weigh them. That said, for the money I haven't found any thing to out shoot sierra's.
 
Re: Sierra or Berger?

Depends in some cases they are so close I'll shoot Sierra's cause they are cheaper. Example in my .280 at 1000yds a 175SMK vs. the 180 Hybrid I'm just gaining 1 less MOA of elevation and .3 MOA of wind, not noticeable so I shoot Sierra's. However in the 6mm the 105 Hybrid in my .243 is hard to beat. 20.75 MOA from 100 to 1000, believe it's around 23 with a 107 SMK or a 105gr Nosler. However if it's 600yds or less I shoot the Nosler 105's cause you don't notice the benefits of the Berger as much
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

H&H Precision Outdoors
200g HPBT Sierra Matchking #2231 for .300 Win Mag
Replies
4
Views
383
H&H Precision Outdoors
H&H Precision Outdoors
W
Reloading - cost of entry
Replies
43
Views
1K
Wonderingmoose69
W
F
30-06 Berger and Powder Preference
Replies
5
Views
633
RegionRat
R
D
AI .308
Replies
12
Views
367
.505gibbs
.505gibbs
ZA206
Need some suggestions on 6.5CM accuracy loads - AR Proof CF barrel
Replies
17
Views
688
Bbracken667
Bbracken667
Top Bottom
Back