Sig 716 accuracy issues, or not?

[Killsnugglebunny]

I'm not sure if its me or the gun, but my SIG 716 Patrol seems to have loose grouping tendency.
This is 100yards with 168amax's & 40.5g of 4064


The gun is stock other than the trigger group. The lower group was the eotech the higher group is the stupid fat-posted back up sights.
I feel like something is a little off, I don't expect sub minute from a battle rifle, but I don't expect her to be the least accurate of all my girls.
Am I just chasing my tail here, being unreasonable, or is this just how it is?

 

[charger23]

Not sure which groups are which, but iron sights or an eotech at 100 isn't how you produce tight groups. Maybe something with more magnification before you draw any conclusions? Your front sight post and your eotech are probably 4MOA. Hard to tell...

 

[smokin.338]

On my with an Aimpoint PRO & 3x magnifier shooting bench I'm getting about 2 moa groups @ 100. Also did a trigger upgrade as well... factory is a bit heavy for my taste.

 

[rjacobs]

Maybe I just suck, but NO WAY could I shoot "groups" with an eo-tech or iron sights at 100 yards. Its impossible, IMO, to hold the same POA with any degree of accuracy. At best, with a 4MOA eo-tech or a 12 MOA(roughly) front sight you will completely cover any bull and possibly the whole target.

Get some glass on it, even a cheap scope with a simple cross hair and maybe 8-12x magnification, and you will be able to actually hold the same POA at 100 yards.

When I built my SPR with top quality components I was chasing my tail doing load development with a 1.25-4x Leuopold. Once I put the 2.5-10x Vortex on it, everything came together since I could actually make out exactly where I was holding at 10x and 100 yards.

Now for actual real world, poking holes in man sized targets or 2 MOA sized steel targets at distance, yea a WAY lower magnification works, but you also arent trying to stack 5 rounds into the same hole.

 

[Killsnugglebunny]

Yeah, this isn't and wouldn't be my sniper system. I got ladies who can punch the paper in sub minute groups,rather I got this so I could keep my proficiency high on a solid .30 cal platform.
I just did a National Match and going from a Garand that is accurate as you are, to a modern battle rifle that struggles to bust an X at 100 just made me surly.
You guys are right though, the sight post and Eotech nearly covers the bull so its really up to putting a scope on it, if for no other reason than to know.

I didn't know if these rifles were particular to the rounds LOA, or if they enjoyed a different propellant, lighter bullet ect.

 

[rjacobs]

Also remember 308 AR's are a tough beast to shoot well due to heavy recoil plus the "different" recoil impulse(or two). Ive got an LMT MWS. I would say its rare for me to put out a sub MOA group with it and I have heard thats not uncommon from a couple other guys I shoot with a lot that have them or guns like the SR25. I can consistently put out groups that hover right at 1 MOA.

I also dont know how you are shooting the gun(bench, prone, bags on front and back, etc...). A lot of guys dont like shooting bi-pods off the bench, but a bi-pod and bag works well for me on all of my AR style guns. Also shooting prone(which I assume you are familiar with) should help with stability. I dont like front bags(ive tried a few different styles) personally and much prefer my bi-pods.

 

[FALex]

A) I wouldn't take any stock in a rifle's potential performance from groups out of iron sights or an eotech.

B) The load workup you have identified...has it shot sub moa before, or did you just copy this data?

C) Was there ever a time the rifle produced sub moa/moa groups?

 

[Killsnugglebunny]

@ rjacobs;for sighting in or accuracy checks I usually use bags & bipod. The DMR styles like your friends that's what I would expect. But yes the recoil is fearsome for attempting rapid follow ups, but on the bench no big deal.
[MENTION=48203]FALex[/MENTION]; match grade iron sights can bang an X-ring any day at 100 with a bunch of my other rifles. I thought there may have been some idiosyncrasy particular to the Sigs that may have been identified here.

As far as the 168 Amax's with the IMR 4064, that's what I put through my Rem700's and I'm where I want to be. I have worked up lots of other loads but factory ammo as well as my handloads haven't made a difference 'yet' with the 716.

No this gun hasn't yet shot better than that photo, 2-4" groups at 100. The stock trigger was simply horrible, a creepy sandbox, with an SSA
I thought it would come together.

 

[cal50]

Not to be rude but it's likely you & your optics or lack of.

Running an ACOG TA 11 with a Geissele SSA-E trigger and using 168's I can get a big ragged hole / MOA @ 100 yards.
Ball ammo groups 2"-3" respectively.

I use a few Eotech's with a magnifier and the longer you stare at the red dot it starts to float and not appear round and is hard to fire for any precision (at least for my eyes). Great for poor visibility or moving targets but sucks for shooting groups.

 

[BCP]

Get some sort of magnified optic and try again. Also I got my best accuracy with 4064 and 168 amax around 43 in LC brass, winchester was like 45. 2.8"

If you do everything right you should get near an inch, possibly better for 5 shots. Some factory match ammo would really help you narrow things down as well, say 168 FC match that shoots well in everything.

 

[samnev]

Those groups ares not anywhere what I have seen with the use of an EoTech with the 1 moa center dot. 2" to 3" is what I have seen on the few shooters in my club that use EoTech 516 or 552. You should be getting much tighter groups with your load.

 

[Killsnugglebunny]

Yeah, so I might suck....but I can make other rifles with iron sights dance. This Sig is just not giving what I think its best performance could be.

Another run today.

I know my ammo works...does it work well on that platform....that's the question, if not, why?

 

[BCP]

There's nothing wrong with your rifle just put a scope on it instead of that fucking Eotech and it will suddenly shoot better. That dinky grip/bipod isn't doing you any favors either.

 

[FALex]

Yeah, so I might suck....but I can make other rifles with iron sights dance. This Sig is just not giving what I think its best performance could be.

Another run today.

I know my ammo works...does it work well on that platform....that's the question, if not, why?

So for our edification, you know your ammo works in a Remington 700 and you're wondering why it doesn't also work in your Sig 716?

If that truly is your question, fear not...different rifle, different load. What is the seating depth you're using on the Sig? I'd be loading up several different loads, seated to probably 2.80 COAL (due to AR mags prohibiting longer seating depths, mainly). You should find a node in this work up. Also, it is entirely possible that you may need a different powder for your gas gun.

This stuff takes a good amount of work and time. Sometimes you end up trying one or two loads and one of them just shoots. Sometimes you gotta run 5-10 different loads (or more too).

Also keep in mind that firing a gas gun is much different than a bolt gun. Always try to remember that you want excellent follow through on the gasser, giving a good trigger squeeze and a good reset subsequent the shot.

One 3 shot group next to your Remington's groups truly gives us nothing in regards to the Sig.

I did this yesterday, shot my bolt, then my LRP. Even though both of them are .260, their loads are different. There is about 1 grain difference between them.

And again with the EOTECH!!

Move the scope from the Remington over to the Sig.

Good luck, I believe that rifle should at least shoot MOA. Get to work!

 

[Jodirt]

I have gotten consistent sub moa at 100 yards with my 716 patrol using ball ammo and various 308 hunting loads I can cover all my groups with a 1 inch sticker. I have a geissele ssa 2 stage trigger and use a Burris 4X16 scope. All shot from a lead sled.
I have worked up some reloads but haven't had a day without rain to try them out yet. The only problem I have had with the rifle is brass damage, the brass pushes into the ejector hole and then gets sheared off. Sig said this is normal wear, but it does fill my bolt and chamber with small brass shavings and it's pretty hard on the idea of consistent reloads. I am going to try using the suppressor setting on the Gas valve and see if this helps, but I'm not going to hold my breath. A little disappointed for the price to have ANY problems.

 

[BCP]

The only problem I have had with the rifle is brass damage, the brass pushes into the ejector hole and then gets sheared off.

If it's little half circle marks and an occasional shaving or shiny spot where the ejector or extractor is that's normal especially if you are using hotter loads.