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Just got back from DSC and from the Sig booth. Got to look at the 3000's and play with them along side the Zulu 7 binos in particular. It's really hard to tell anything under indoor lighting, so I could not draw any definitive conclusions. I did notice that the Zulu 7's were a little warmer and maybe had a bit better contrast, but both were plenty clear as far as small details go. Again, I would not take this as gospel because it's indoor lighting at relatively (180 yards or so) close range, but they did not look horrible, that's for sure.
Overally, I think they are worth a closer look, I'm going to try and get some to try out as soon as I am done with the 2400. We'll see how that works out, but as I am demoing a scope at the moment, it should be fun to run them together as well, especially if I can get ahold of a Foretrex too.
Overally, I think they are worth a closer look, I'm going to try and get some to try out as soon as I am done with the 2400. We'll see how that works out, but as I am demoing a scope at the moment, it should be fun to run them together as well, especially if I can get ahold of a Foretrex too.
Snow,
I think the problem is that the BDX line do not contain an onboard compass to set DOF, so coriolis etc. cannot be properly calculated. For that, you need to go ABS, which has the compass, or use the external device. BDX is meant to be used as a connective device with at minimum, a mobile phone, and at maximum, a Kestrel and a scope. ABS is more a 'by itself' device. Of course, there is no ABS bino, but maybe they'll do one on Zulu 7 glass, that would be cool, even though I'd never be able to afford it!
I think the problem is that the BDX line do not contain an onboard compass to set DOF, so coriolis etc. cannot be properly calculated. For that, you need to go ABS, which has the compass, or use the external device. BDX is meant to be used as a connective device with at minimum, a mobile phone, and at maximum, a Kestrel and a scope. ABS is more a 'by itself' device. Of course, there is no ABS bino, but maybe they'll do one on Zulu 7 glass, that would be cool, even though I'd never be able to afford it!
No, the phone on the BDX is only for configuring the device (including uploading curves, wind, or environmentals manually, etc) or, if you keep the two connected in the field, the phone will automatically update the environmentals on the RF by pulling from the closest station. The full AB is not included on the phone app (it would be much more expensive if it were). If you want to go full AB, and therefore past 800 yards, you will need to purchase a device with it on it (Kestrel, Foretrex). By doing that, you get a lot of other capabilities, but also are purchasing the full AB suite. Buying the BDX only gets you access to AB Lite. I suppose they could offer a phone app upgrade to full AB, though. Could you properly set DOF with your phone? I suspect so, it has directional through it's GPS. Might be a bit of a programming feat, not sure.
But as to your first question, no, the only way to get a ballistic solution past 800 yards is to get the full AB suite via another device. AB ultralite will not support, at least not at the moment.
But as to your first question, no, the only way to get a ballistic solution past 800 yards is to get the full AB suite via another device. AB ultralite will not support, at least not at the moment.
Only with a kestrel, AB lite only gets you to 800yds with your phone. With a kestrel and the full AB suite you can go as far as the RF will range.
Still cool but doesn't a phone have the right hardware to use a full AB system in a App? Not a deal breaker just another device to carry.
Not really, not natively anyway. You need a compass for DOF, should not be a problem. But you need temp and pressure at your location, at the very least. Right now, that last set is pulled via the phone from the closest station via cell signal. When there is no signal, that info must be populated manually if it needs changed. So you the phone is missing a couple components to make it a replacement that compliments AB, unless you are okay relying on the cell signal provided/ manual environmentals.
OK Thanks well it's still a great product I'm sure they left it this way so there's room for improvement & new models down the road.
Yeah, there are a couple considerations in this line, one being price point, I think, and another being 'problem solving' through connectivity. I have an extended review of the BDX system, the first part about the 2400 I'll put up this week (hopefully). Will follow up with part II, using the scope, etc. But I'll say this, I was initially skeptical about the scope/rf integration aspect. Having used it last week on an Aoudad sheep hunt in tough canyons, I have changed my tune. I am impressed with the speed of the system. All the holds instantly transferred to the scope. Ended up enabling my son to handle a fast shooting situation by himself successfully, swapping from a 571 yard shot, to an unexpected shot at 200. And that was using the 2400 with the scope. Using binos with the same capabilities along with the scope, I can't imagine a faster system. See, range...fire.
If I can get a 3k and a Foretrex to try out, that could really be a pretty impressive system. GPS/ballistic solution on my arm (especially if Garmin adds inreach capabilities to the Foretrex, lightening my product load further). Binos on the chest. Good to go. That would be pretty cool.
If I can get a 3k and a Foretrex to try out, that could really be a pretty impressive system. GPS/ballistic solution on my arm (especially if Garmin adds inreach capabilities to the Foretrex, lightening my product load further). Binos on the chest. Good to go. That would be pretty cool.
I love this idea but researching the Foretrex it requires so much input that it might as well be a phone. Or apple watch with AB if that were a thing. My point being that if i was dropping that kind cash i think the Kestrel with AB is more useful. If they can translate that to the Foretrex i'm all over it. Still reading but i took it that i needed to enter most environmentals in the Foretrex.
Yeah I agree with this the only unknown environmental imput you have to give the Kestrel is your latitude because it does not have a built-in GPS that is the only thing the Kestrel is lacking. To me the only benefit of the Garmin Fortrex is the bigger screen and GPS, but that does not come close to outweighing the pros of the Kestrel.
Yeah, I have not used the Foretrex, don't have one or know anyone that has one. My understanding was that it would function much like the Kestrel, with everything communicated. If so, it will be awesome. If not, ho hum. I don't know, I'll see what I can find out after Shot.
This is correct. AB Ultralite is to 800 yards. With a Garmin or Kestrel if you can range it you get a solution on it.
It works very fast. Watch the video:
It communicates just fine with the Garmin products. They worked together to make sure it was seamless.
Awesome, looks very impressive, thanks for posting this. Got lots of questions, but that's a good start. I'll have to ping and get these to try out. I heard from someone at Garmin that they are looking to add inreach satellite coms to all of their units in the next year or so. If that's true, which it may or may not be, and if this works like I think it might, wow, this will be a powerful piece of kit that could potentially replace at least three things from my pack.
Add to that, the speed of the BDX system, which we experienced first hand recently hunting sheep, pretty exciting stuff!
Add to that, the speed of the BDX system, which we experienced first hand recently hunting sheep, pretty exciting stuff!
It does have a barometer in it but that's all i could find. I love the form factor of it, now if they could give me all that the kestrel has to offer but on my wrist somehow lol. I know that would effect the temp of the device but if it could be insulated from the skin or what have you i think it could work. Touch screen might also be a solid addition or pairing the foretrex with the phone so entering wind with the bdx app would be quicker.
Foretrex has a pair-able temp sensor that can be located remotely, like on a pack, to eliminate body heat effects.
That is actually something that is on the to do list. Not yet, but it is under investigation.
Touch screen is bad. Battery hog. It was actually designed to be glove friendly with the current buttons. It has temp, from a Tempe sensor. This is placed remotely so your body doesn't effect it. Or your garments.
So if this is something you do down the road can we do a firmware update and get this option with just updating an app online?
I bet so, I just updated my 701 and now I can hook it up to the sig box range finders.
Which RF are you connecting it to?
It will connect to the Sig BDX 2400 or Sig BDX 3000 Binos.
So workflow wise, is it the same as with the Kestrel? That is leave Foretrex on, power up RF, they reconnect automatically....range, and the solution feeds back and displays in the RF?
Also, with the Kestrel, compass heading is not sent, at least not on the 2400, maybe the 3000 has a compass, I dont know. So DOF has to be set manually. Is it different with the Foretrex, in otherwords, will the Foretrex automatically take a compass reading based on your facing direction, or does that have to be actuated manually before ranging?
Also, with the Kestrel, compass heading is not sent, at least not on the 2400, maybe the 3000 has a compass, I dont know. So DOF has to be set manually. Is it different with the Foretrex, in otherwords, will the Foretrex automatically take a compass reading based on your facing direction, or does that have to be actuated manually before ranging?
Just those two or will it be able to connect with all the BDX laser range finders?
Are there rumors of Garmin adding inReach capability to the Foretrex?? That could be a serious device reducer!
I heard a rumor, and it was a rumor only, that they were looking to add inreach to all their devices in the next 12-18 months. But again, it was a rumor only, so I don't know if it's true. He said that was the reason they bought inreach, and the plan is to merge it all together.
I don't know if it's true, but a Foretrex with inreach on my wrist, and BDX 3k in my chest rig, and a bdx scope on my rifle creates a very fast system and removes multiple items from my pack.
If they don't do it, they are missing an amazing opportunity!
I don't know if it's true, but a Foretrex with inreach on my wrist, and BDX 3k in my chest rig, and a bdx scope on my rifle creates a very fast system and removes multiple items from my pack.
If they don't do it, they are missing an amazing opportunity!
Yes, turn them on and rock and roll.
Compass headings are input using the Elite Device. Both the Kestrel and Garmin have built in compasses to measure DOF. You don't enter them manually, you use the device to measure it.
Only BDX Devices with AB External mode.
Yeah, it's pretty fast on the Kestrel to do it once its in your hand, but of course you have to pull it out etc. Was hoping the Foretrex would do it automatically when it receives data from the RF. That's probably not possible, I guess, the compass would have to be onboard like on the new Leica, and that data passed like the rest, I assume.
Either way, though, I think the Foretrex may be faster than the Kestrel, as it's always on the wrist. Assuming setting DOF is only one button away, could be really fast. I definitely want to get a tester!
The Kestrel and the Garmin 701 have different capabilities. How would you add wind data input to a 3000 BDX and Garmin 701 system? Do you still need the Kestrel or am I missing something?
For the 3000 BDX I know for sure you can input wind data with the phone app and send it to the 3000BDX and I would assume you can also input wind data with the buttons on the unit just like you can with the 2400ABS. I have no experience with the Garmin 701.
That is sort of what I was getting at. If you use the 3000 BDX with the Kestrel your solution for over 800yds would go something like this.
Sample with BDX compatible Kestrel
Range with 3000 BDX
Adjust scope and shoot.
With Garmin in place of Kestrel
Use generic wind meter with no BDX connection.
Range with 3000 BDX
Manually input wind data.
Adjust scope and shoot.
With Garmin and BDX compatible Kestrel
Sample withe BDX compatible Kestrel
Range with 3000 BDX
Adjust scope and shoot.
I guess my point is to really speed things up you still need the BDX compatible Kestrel. The Garmin has some nice features but to really take advantage of the BDX system it seems you need a BDX compatible Kestrel. The steps above might be out of order.
Right now I am using a 2400ABS and manual wind input. The phone app can be cumbersome in the field. The 3000 BDX with BDX compatible Kestrel seems pretty streamlined.
Sample with BDX compatible Kestrel
Range with 3000 BDX
Adjust scope and shoot.
With Garmin in place of Kestrel
Use generic wind meter with no BDX connection.
Range with 3000 BDX
Manually input wind data.
Adjust scope and shoot.
With Garmin and BDX compatible Kestrel
Sample withe BDX compatible Kestrel
Range with 3000 BDX
Adjust scope and shoot.
I guess my point is to really speed things up you still need the BDX compatible Kestrel. The Garmin has some nice features but to really take advantage of the BDX system it seems you need a BDX compatible Kestrel. The steps above might be out of order.
Right now I am using a 2400ABS and manual wind input. The phone app can be cumbersome in the field. The 3000 BDX with BDX compatible Kestrel seems pretty streamlined.
I personally run the 701. I like it because i Can have two wind holds at the same time. I do run a cheaper kestrel as well cause why not. I input my average wind and then the gust speed as well. With the farther shots I find that i’ll Use a kestrel some but once I bracket the wind then I focus on the down wind range through observations.
I have looked at the Garmin manual and some reviews but I still have a question or two.
This is a basic one. With all the GPS features does it have a map mode with basic map display?
Are the GPS functions easily accessible?
Could it be your only GPS?
This is a basic one. With all the GPS features does it have a map mode with basic map display?
Are the GPS functions easily accessible?
Could it be your only GPS?
When you say “basic map display” how basic are you talking about? It does have a map that shows your previous track, and any way points you have. Its just a black basemap though.(if that makes sense)
The gps is very easily accessible, there are to main buttons and the two buttons for selecting things within each screen. This saves on battery and works better with gloves then a touch screen I have found. It does have a compass screen which when you route to a point will keep an arrow showing you which way to go.
If I’m in a new area I would want a paper map to work with but I do run it as my only gps all the time while hunting. I do keep a inreach with me when I’m solo/in new country so I can call for sos if I need to. If you want a basemap though instead of running a paper map you will be disappointed with that since there Arn’t any basemaps available on the device.
It’s essentially a foretrex 601(upgraded 401) that has AB on it. The 401/601 has been a very proven device if your looking for that style of gps. I’m looking at getting the BDX rangefinder is some aspect because having the range pop up directly would be a nice touch. I run the range card in 25yard increments right now while out hunting for quick come ups.
If you want a cheap GPS with a built in base map for navigation a Garmin eTrex 20x can be had for $150 or less always nice to have a back up anyway.
Thank you that is exactly the info I was looking for.
I am just trying to figure the Garmin unit out. The specs list a "base map". It just must be the underlying map data for GPS use. In no review or video could I find a photo that showed a map.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/583825#specs
I also use the new small Inreach and have a couple older Etrex.
I am just trying to figure the Garmin unit out. The specs list a "base map". It just must be the underlying map data for GPS use. In no review or video could I find a photo that showed a map.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/583825#specs
I also use the new small Inreach and have a couple older Etrex.
Feel free to pm me, if I pick up a BDX i’ll Relay how it works with the Garmin.
Any idea when the 3000 BDX will ship? Shot show Sig videos said very soon.
They are building stock right now. Just a couple of packaging tweaks is all that is left until they go out.
For those curious about how the Garmin works, it allows for two wind inputs. Many shooters do not use a wind meter, they use mirage and foliage or other down range tools. In order to update the wind on the Garmin you simply hit the enter button quickly 4 times to jump straight to wind on the main ballistics page. Also the elevation and wind solutions are displayed inside the 3000 & 2400 BDX. So you don't technically need to see the display of the Kestrel or Garmin.
GPS is super simple to use. You can set waypoints by simply holding down on the enter button at anytime from any screen. The device is capable of sub yard accuracy when in open terrain (stay out of the city). So you can tag the target, and your location, and the device itself will give you a yard measurement to the target. This is how I developed the topographical/satellite maps for the events.
How dare you tease us with those Kilo3000s lol
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