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Sig50 / Tac50 ?

Rlbol

Rlbol

Master Gunnery Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 5, 2010
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FL
do any one have any experience with either the Sig50 or the McMillan tac 50?
i have the opurtunity to pick up a sig50 for a very very good price.
I currently shoot up to a 338LM but have always wanted a 50cal.

i would appreciate any info about the rifle.

 
Never had a chance to shoot the SIG 50 but form what the dealer showed me his paper targets from 100 to 1000 it shot really well. All grouped were in the just over 1/2 to 3/4 moa range.
 
I owned a TAC50 for a while back from 2006-2009 roughly. I got tired of loading/feeding that beast quality ammunition. (Says a guy who just jumped into 375CT).

You won't be firing M2, M33, ammunition through it and be satisfied with the accuracy - not by any means. The round selection though is impressive if you are into just banging around with it. It's essentially a scaled-up 30-06 cartridge. I think most people that go through the 50 BMG phase end up selling them relatively quickly after all of their friends have seen it light a few rounds off. You definitely won't enhance your marksmanship skills with the beast. In fact, it might actually make them worse if you aren't mindful of the mechanics.

Not trying to dissuade your purchase here. The only way to get it out of your system is to do it. It is fun, but it won't be cheap!

What sort of info are you looking for in particular?
 
Thanks guys

AIAW, why did you switch to 375ct? That much better ballistics? I would prefer the 375 as I wil reload for either how ever for the price I can get the sig for that is what is drawing me to it. From what I have read the Mcmillain 50 action is one of the best!

The onlyreal things that are keeping ping me from just buying it are 2.
1) I am really not a fan of the chassis system. As it really not set the way I prefer. However I have seen a couple of other chassis systems that I think will fit the action. Only problem is I think you lose the recoil reduction. System and that is the only reason I don't own an AI 50 yet.

2) I need to find out if it is possible to change out the factory inluded. Bi pod. It is a spigot mount adj. metal unit and I would go to one of the big f class type ones.

thanks again for the info and please keep it coming! As I am completely new to the big boy rounds!
 
375CT has superior ballistics all around with well over half of the recoil/overpressure. The BMG is OK for a few tasks but excels at others, like administering absolute hate on any hard or soft target that you can spot within it's capabilities. You won't find a larger projectile selection outside of 50 BMG (if that matters to you). 375CT is for the most part strictly target-competition oriented currently, but a few militaries have a very limited deployment for anti-personel roles.

You can of course get very accurate projectiles for the BMG at a cost (CuttingEdge, Lehigh, A-MAX). I ran A-MAX 750's and CEB MTAC 762's with great success at distance. I used the factory 1-15" twist barrel as it shot to my satisfaction. No doubt, the TAC50 is built like a tank. You could easily kill something by lobbing just the bolt at it.

As far as reloading costs, 375 CT and 50 BMG are both going to be up there... 215g of H50 for a 750g A-MAX with the BMG, 128g of Retumbo for 352g CEB MTAC with the 375CT. That's a lot of powder to drop per cartridge and it adds up. 7000 grains of powder in 1 pound.

Just rough numbers here:

A-MAX 750g - $41 per quantity of 20.
CEB MTAC 352g - $76 per quantity of 50.

Hornady 50 BMG brass (new) - $100 per quantity of 20 (good, clean quality
Bertram 375CT brass (new) - $60 per quantity of 20

CCI 35 Primers (BMG) - $170 per quantity of 500 primers
Federal 215 LRM - $38 per quantity of 1000 primers


As to your questions. You must be referring to the A1-R2 with the hydraulic dampening system. I've never fired that model. I've heard that it's a good way to get bit by the scope though. It's not the recoil that gets to you mostly - it's the muzzle over-pressure over time. It's nothing terrible like some say - just something to get used to.

Yeah, they ship with GGG bipods now. If I still had that rifle I would go with the LRA F-Class Heavy bipod. I know that someone makes an adapter, but I can't recall who. McMillan would know for sure if you called them.

It is a totally different world. You will need a 50 BMG press with 1-1/2x12 threads, dies and the components above. Most of your existing reloading equipment will be useless. RCBS' ChargeMaster needs to throw the charge in two different cycles. You even need a relatively well-sized brass tumbler for the cases to properly rotate around in - think bigger on everything.

Let us know if you pull the trigger on that beast! If you can budget for the costs, it won't disappoint once your load development is done.
 
Like AIAW, I had a TAC50, from 2010-2013. I agree with EVERYTHING he said, esp with how it gets old and worsens your shooting. The recoil with the TAC50 brake is aweful, I had to replace it with a AR-50 brake, which works better, but adds 4# and 4" OAL to the thing. My Tac 50 broke a Vortex scope level, the bolt release pin worked its way out a little with each shot, and the collet for the stock would work lose with each shot. Before the AR50 brake, my friends wouldn't shoot it, but for "kicks" for the virgins among them. I think only a fool would shoot the "A2" with that gimmicky hydraulic stock. That's a ticket to the neurosurgeon waiting to be cashed in.

I also have reason to disagree with the quality of the TAC-50 action - I have a local smith that builds 50 wildcats (50 "Tejas" - which will sling a 750 AMAX at 3200 fps, pushed by 280+ grains of powder) and he says the McMillan actions are not strong enough. He builds exclusively on Armalite actions and does a trigger job on them too.

By the way, I lost my ass selling the TAC-50. Like I think I paid about $8000 when all was said and done because it had a custom turned Lilja barrel, and they stuck me on the Pelican and the shippping, and I sold it for $5300 IIRC with only about 350 rounds down the tube. Fact is there's just not a big market for them. Prepare for that, if the bug stops biting you. Note that it cost me $10/round in depreciation alone, not accounting for ammo costs and other things to shoot that thing for 3 years.

I too went to 375 CT via Desert Tech and am very happy but am also having a custom Lilja barrel turned for it right now, want to give the 50 a try again. Easier decision as I'm not building an entire gun from the ground up - just a barrel for when I occasional want to "administer absolute hate" (LOVE THAT!) on something downrange. WAY easier and cheaper to load for 375 than 50, and less specialized componentry.

Were I to do it again, I would just start with an Armalite and have it rebarreled (Brad Stair, West Haven Utah) if it didn't satisfy me with accuracy, or buy a DT in whatever caliber so I had the flexibility to change between the barely practical (375) and the mostly impractical (50 BMG).

Other thing to consider is where do you live? If you don't have access to a 1000 yard to a mile shooting lane close by, there is just no point - in either of them.
 
Hi all..
can someone tell me how much lenght and diam. of a tac50 action?
thx
 
secondofangle said:
Were I to do it again, I would just start with an Armalite AR-50a1 and have it rebarreled (Brad Stair, West Haven Utah) if it didn't satisfy me with accuracy, or buy a DT in whatever caliber so I had the flexibility to change between the barely practical (375) and the mostly impractical (50 BMG).
AND
Other thing to consider is where do you live? If you don't have access to a 1000 yard to a mile shooting lane close by, there is just no point - in either of them.
Click to expand...

The single shot AR50 is a good way to to start it off with your "AI 50 yet" ambition ...

Night50.jpg

Desert Tech HTI & Armalite AR50
 
It would seem like the .50 wouldn't lose too much ground to .375 CT if you were running some of the higher end solids and what not?
 
Forgetful Coyote said:
It would seem like the .50 wouldn't lose too much ground to .375 CT if you were running some of the higher end solids and what not?
Click to expand...

If you want to maximize BC, yes the solids beat the lead core alternatives, but you buy that BC with significant cost.

Solids simply are not as accurate as lead cored alternatives. I'll wager that you double your group size with the solids. My 375 CT with a 350 SMK @ BC .381 shoots 3/8-1/2" groups consistently 5 shots @ 100 yards. My 50 BMG shooting factory AMAX loaded ammo shoots 3/8" groups all day. You will rarely see bugholes posted with solids (and please don't tell me about going to sleep at range and all that hocus pocus.)

And in general, solids cost more and foul way more.

YMMV but I would way rather shoot more consistent groups, pay less, shoot more, and not foul as much.

@ 3140 fps with n570 my 375 shoots a 350 SMK to 2500 yards from a factory 29" DT barrel at 6500 DA with 91 MOA drop. my 50 BMG with a 40" barrel and factory AMAX @ 2850 fps for 2500 yards at 6500 DA needs 87.25 MOA. I call it a wash if you consider the 375 costs 1/2 as much to shoot, is almost 12" shorter, and can be suppressed without significant effects on recoil.

Those numbers can be beat with solids. But the cost goes way up, as does group size. Everything is a trade-off.

At 2500 yards, if I lose 100 fps, so about 6" off the 40" barrel for a 34" barrel for the 50 BMG, I would need 95.5 MOA to get there. Do you want to dial up 7.25 more MOA, or have 6" more barrel hanging off your gun? You decide. Or you could reload and push the velocity and spend hours reloading and worry about pressure and brass, and all that.

It is a hard decision how to proceed for the extreme long range hitter. If you have a DT and can run a really long barrel, go that way and it will help you with whatever ammo you shoot. If you have a conventional rifle, 40" is probably over the top, and you may want to go 35" and run a solid to make up for it. Or, you can reload and push the velocity and abuse the brass. There is no free lunch.

I prefer something that gives me a handicap that maximizes my shooting pleasure across all situations. Long barrel in DT with factory ammo or reloaded ammo that is consistently under pressure and not finicky about fouling, group size, and pressure/brass life. To each his own.


 
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secondofangle2 said:
If you want to maximize BC, yes the solids beat the lead core alternatives, but you buy that BC with significant cost.

Solids simply are not as accurate as lead cored alternatives. I'll wager that you double your group size with the solids. My 375 CT with a 350 SMK @ BC .381 shoots 3/8-1/2" groups consistently 5 shots @ 100 yards. My 50 BMG shooting factory AMAX loaded ammo shoots 3/8" groups all day. You will rarely see bugholes posted with solids (and please don't tell me about going to sleep at range and all that hocus pocus.)

And in general, solids cost more and foul way more.

YMMV but I would way rather shoot more consistent groups, pay less, shoot more, and not foul as much.

@ 3140 fps with n570 my 375 shoots a 350 SMK to 2500 yards from a factory 29" DT barrel at 6500 DA with 91 MOA drop. my 50 BMG with a 40" barrel and factory AMAX @ 2850 fps for 2500 yards at 6500 DA needs 87.25 MOA. I call it a wash if you consider the 375 costs 1/2 as much to shoot, is almost 12" shorter, and can be suppressed without significant effects on recoil.

Those numbers can be beat with solids. But the cost goes way up, as does group size. Everything is a trade-off.

At 2500 yards, if I lose 100 fps, so about 6" off the 40" barrel for a 34" barrel for the 50 BMG, I would need 95.5 MOA to get there. Do you want to dial up 7.25 more MOA, or have 6" more barrel hanging off your gun? You decide. Or you could reload and push the velocity and spend hours reloading and worry about pressure and brass, and all that.

It is a hard decision how to proceed for the extreme long range hitter. If you have a DT and can run a really long barrel, go that way and it will help you with whatever ammo you shoot. If you have a conventional rifle, 40" is probably over the top, and you may want to go 35" and run a solid to make up for it. Or, you can reload and push the velocity and abuse the brass. There is no free lunch.

I prefer something that gives me a handicap that maximizes my shooting pleasure across all situations. Long barrel in DT with factory ammo or reloaded ammo that is consistently under pressure and not finicky about fouling, group size, and pressure/brass life. To each his own.
Click to expand...


Interesting..

My 50 shot a 3.75" five shot group for score at 1000yds this summer in Raton at the FCSA world championships, Hunter class from a bipod. Not bad for a bullet I designed and a rifle I built.. who knew solids could shoot small groups. It makes jaged one hole groups at 100 when zeroing. No Hocus pocus here, just some good design and a bit of thought put into a system to make it work.


 
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AIAW said:
I owned a TAC50 for a while back from 2006-2009 roughly. I got tired of loading/feeding that beast quality ammunition. (Says a guy who just jumped into 375CT).

You won't be firing M2, M33, ammunition through it and be satisfied with the accuracy - not by any means. The round selection though is impressive if you are into just banging around with it. It's essentially a scaled-up 30-06 cartridge. I think most people that go through the 50 BMG phase end up selling them relatively quickly after all of their friends have seen it light a few rounds off. You definitely won't enhance your marksmanship skills with the beast. In fact, it might actually make them worse if you aren't mindful of the mechanics.

Not trying to dissuade your purchase here. The only way to get it out of your system is to do it. It is fun, but it won't be cheap!

What sort of info are you looking for in particular?
Click to expand...

It is NOT cheap!!! For a rifle, you're gonna want good brass. I like Lapua, but goddamn, have you seen the price on 50 pieces of Lapua BMG brass!? And no, pull down and 1x brass ain't gonna cut it. It's okay for fun, but the wear and tear the .50 suffers cuts down on blasting. I don't do it at all. That fucker only gets fed prime rib --quality brass, quality bullets, H50 powder (which BTW costs more per lb. than most smokeless powder, other option is US869, which I use in the M2).

I got into it, and goddamn. I'm so deep in I can't get out, "I'm too big to fail" at this point. DTA HTI and M2HB... The loading gear costs as much as the rifle, the optics usually cost half as much, the bipod and everything else it uses is twice the price if not more, bulk BMG components aren't cheap but the only way to get the discount, yes, you'll need higher quality components for a rifle vs. M2HB (I have both, and holy shit the M2HB is even more expensive and I did not see it coming). And to sleep at night, you're gonna need a high end jewelry vault.

You'll find yourself buying drums of brass from the army and have semi trucks regularly dropping off pallets of brass and links. Think twice.

Still haven't bought my .338. I know I'd be able to use it more and it'd cost a helluva lot less. For shits and giggles, you may as well buy that 20mm rifle made here in WA. Over 6' long, 100lbs., it's a DD but it's bad ass, nothing like it. Barrel is as big as your forearm.

Working .50 and loading for it can be a pain in the ass. Especially if you have tons of it to do like I do. You'll need the Dillon press and it's still a lot of work.

HOWEVER, nothing, but nothing, beats 688gr. of "FUCKYOU" sprinting along at 2800fps. Start saving milk jugs for targets (easy to see explode when filled with red food color) because you'll chew up AR500 plate like it's going out of style. You can get thicker plate, it'll last longer but it'll fail before long too. If you have API's, fuck it, just shoot rocks or old cars. Those bastards cut through 1" steel no problem. Again, you won't get any accuracy out of these but if you get a .50 I just happen to know you'll at least try APIT's out of it. Everyone does.

Don't start wildfires, I burned down all of Yakima Training Center with one Raufoss round, not even a tracer. The guy firing the AT4 started a second fire next to it and we never got it put out.
 
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That said, I'd get the TAC 50. I plan on the TAC 338 as it is. DTA is nice, was the best buy when I got it and prices were less. It's a nice rifle and unique for what it is. TAC 50 holds one of the long range records IIRC and is one of the better ones to get, period. Maybe the best?

If you get one and want a DTA, I'll trade 'ya! I'll throw in a 5-25 USO ER25 and Badger mount too, LRA bipod if you twist my arm.
 
Forgetful Coyote said:
It would seem like the .50 wouldn't lose too much ground to .375 CT if you were running some of the higher end solids and what not?
Click to expand...

.375 is a different animal. It has one of the highest, if not THE highest BC's of any round out there. If you want an accurate, long range rifle and don't plan on going the M2 route, I'd go with this instead. It'll be plenty expensive enough. Just don't buy a Cheytac rifle. I hear they designed a great round and a shitty rifle, despite the looks and cost of it.

Even ELD solids for .50 don't compare. .50 has SERIOUS downrange energy, that's why you use it. NOT for accuracy. Accurate .50's just use the caliber designation, the entire system is typically different. Better chambers, barrels, better ammo, etc. Even then .75-1MOA is considered amazing. I've seen .375 nail an oil drum at well over 3000m. Consistently, and with different shooters. There's a video of it online. If I want to hit an oil drum at 3k, I'll probably charge 100rds. into the M2 and let it fly. I don't have extra MOA on my rifle so I can't get the adj. necessary to stretch my rifle that far. 2k is about what I have it for. It's good within 2k and I can stretch it if I have to.

That's another thing. BUY A RIFLE WITH BUILT IN MOA!!! You aren't buying this for close shots anyway. This was DTA's biggest flop. Built in MOA will allow use of clip on thermal and NV later if you choose without it being out of line. Or having to use two different scopes or whatever solution you use to combat lack of elevation. If NV or thermal isn't on your horizon, an MOA base is fine. Some are adj., not sure if they take the abuse but if so 60MOA that you can adjust would be absolutely awesome for these rifles. If it adj. to 0MOA you could still use clip ons if desired. Oh, those aren't cheap either. $600+. For rings.

Buy a tank for a scope. I use an ER25 for a reason and it's not because it's my most favorite scope. For the price, it's probably one of the better BMG optics out there. Still.

Suppressor will run you up to $4k; buy Elite Iron, it's a FINE suppressor for less than half the price. Not junk, he's just honest, which is fucking rare. In fact, I'm a repeat customer of his and only use his cans for large bore applications.

To the fellow above, if you need a good .375 can, he's your man.

Good luck and welcome to the crowd. We sure as shit need to form a club to buy huge bulk buys of .50 shit so it won't break us individually.

 
I think we need to land the plane back on solid ground. Ma Deuce is way off topic for the OP.

MOA not built into the DT rail for a reason - so you can swap scopes between rifles that all have zero cant, so your offsets are all close. If that reason is not good for you, I understand. Most of us just put on a 44 MOA Spuhr and forget about it. That will eat up all the extra travel in most scopes making the rail a non-issue.

What 375 solid has a G1 BC that substantially exceeds 750 AMAX @ 1.05? Not cutting edge 352s.

I shoot my 50 at my 3/8" AR500 all the time, and no dents with AMAX, as in the video posted above. We shot 3 rounds of XM33 at a 12" plate propped up on rocks at 100 yards from an 82A1 and it only dimpled it. So I don't know where this is coming from about chewing up steel plates.

The EI 50 BMG can is $1900, not sure where $4000 comes from.

And yes, mentioned above, is solids *can* shoot well as the FCSA shooter, and many more of them noted. Note that he designed his own bullet. The OP comes from a guy with little/no experience with 50s, hence the original questions. Way easier for him to get his start with some factory ammo. Which usually will be a 750 AMAX. All my other points stand, for the common man rather than the competitive shooter.
 
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Well when you decide that the 50 is an absolute badass, then buy my custom Tac-50 repeater :D
 
THEIS said:
Hi,

NOW only if that was the real BC :)....real BC is closer inline with .962

Are you saying that copper jacketed 375s and 50s are more accurate than monolithic solids in those calibers?

Sincerely,
THEIS
Click to expand...

I"m saying that I rarely see anybody with a 375 post bugholes with solids. They usually concoct a story about them going to sleep at distance, and report results at distance. Of course, somebody will have a group or two or more that "prove me wrong" and I will of course say the exception proves the rule.

I'm no longer a FCSA member and don't follow 50 threads very much. I'm going to guess the same thing is true, on average with a 50 though.

If solids were better than jacketed bullets for 100 yard accuracy, you would see bench resters shooting them. To my knowledge, no benchrest shooter uses solid projectiles.

It's like BTHP design - according to Litz, those are less accurate than flat base bullets (preferred by benchrest shooters). Long range shooters take the small accuracy hit for the superior ballistics of BTHP bullets at range.

As regards 1.05 with the AMAX, I use G7 .508 (Litz number IIRC). But inflated BC numbers will likely be advertised by the majority of manufacturers, most of whom do not have the equipment to accurately measure BC.

I await Hornady doppler data for the 750 AMAX, I have not seen it updated yet.
 
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Hi,

They "report" the results at "distance" because that is where they shoot. Who shoots a 375 or 50BMG at 100 yards?

So if flat base projectiles are the most accurate then why are 1000yd shooters not using them? Because they SUCK at any relative distances...so 1000yd shooters "take the hit" as you mention and go with BTHP designs. EXACT same concept of ELR shooters with monolithics. They "take the hit" because of the better gyroscopic stability at ELR distances, not the 100yd distance.

IIRC Randy Powell from Thunder Ammo has loaded the ammunition that has won the FCSA National Championships for a few years running...and its monolithic projectiles not copper jacketed.

In reality it all boils down to just as there are no "do it all" rifles..there are no "most accurate" projectiles....just "most accurate" for task at hand. BR=flatbase, LR=BT, ELR=Monolithics :)

Sincerely,
THEIS
 
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I emailed Hornady about Doppler data on the 750 a while ago, I believe they responded with a .451 G7 figure. To get a BC around that 750 AMAX(.508 G7 from AB) in .375, it'd be a 452gr Cutting Edge MTAC (.506 G7 if Applied Ballistics' numbers are anything to go by). My memory may be a little fuzzy as its been months since that email and I don't have it saved anymore. The CE data is in their technical data PDF.

Anyway, I believe the points have been thoroughly gone through. If you really want the .50, get a .50. If you just want a high performance ELR rig, 375 Cheytac seems to be king of the hill for factory rounds right now.
 
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