Rifle Scopes Signs of parallax troubles on a Premier 5-25?

[Kiba]

Have a buddy with 3 Premier 5-25s.

Was at the range yesterday and one of the scopes seemed a little "off" to me-- it was requiring parallax rotation near the extreme of the knob rotation to get the image in focus and parallax free compared to the other 2 scopes. And then every time I'd take a shot the image would blur a little and I'd have to fiddle with the parallax again to get the image in focus and parallax free. At first I thought it was just my eye messing with me since his ideal diopter setting is different than mine, but I did not have this problem with the other 2 Premiers.

The zero did not wander when this was happening, and the point of best image focus always coincided with the point of the reticle and image being parallax free-- I just had to mess with the parallax knob between every shot.

All 3 scopes are in Spuhr mounts which I torqued at only 15 in-lb because I know the parallax mechanism on these scopes will have issues if you torque the rings too high.

The parallax knob does not feel stiff, clunky, or notchy.

Going to give ATI a ring on Monday and hope that scope is in the covered serial number range and they still have the necessary parts to fix it, but I figured I'd ask here first if anyone else has had parallax issues with their Premiers and what the symptoms were.

Thanks!

 

[Lowlight]

Move the front ring a little and don't torque it above 15-inch pounds.

 

[Kiba]

Thanks Frank. It's currently in a Sphur mount and not separate rings so there isn't much room to move the scope relative to the rings, but I'll see if I can dig up a set of separate rings. Is it better to move the front ring closer to the objective bell or closer to the turret box?

 

[Lowlight]

You can try changing the torque on the front rings and see if that helps, lower it a bit. Try loosening the front screws and see if it improves.

North of the center is probably best. If you can use a narrow set of Badgers. It was designed for Badgers at 15-inch pounds.

The binding is upfront, so you have to adjust a bit. The parallax lense is maybe just south of center in front of the turret.

 

[Kiba]

Perfect, thanks for the info.

I'll try loosening the front rings to say 12 in-lb first and see if that improves things. As wide as the Sphur rings are and being 6 screw that's probably still plenty of clamping power, it's not on a heavy recoiling rifle anyways.

The other 2 scopes are also in Spuhrs torqued to 15 in-lb and don't have the problem, but I know the parallax binding issue varies by the individual scope.

 

[nn8734]

Going to give ATI a ring on Monday and hope that scope is in the covered serial number range and they still have the necessary parts to fix it, but I figured I'd ask here first if anyone else has had parallax issues with their Premiers and what the symptoms were.

Crystal Turko would be ATI’s point of contact and can look up the serial no. on the phone and is very helpful. I spoke with Andrew Webber, ATI’s owner about 5 months back and unfortunately he advised they no longer perform any internal repairs on Premier scopes. The warranty covers 80% of the original retail price and comes in the form of a credit toward the purchase of the equivalent TT. Those scopes not covered receive a $1000 credit toward a TT purchase.

Is the scope in question an early or late model Premier? Majority of the parallax issues were on the early versions which can be identified by the lack of markings on the parallax knob and no slip scale on the elevation turret.

You should be ok down to 10 in lbs if using Spuhr products.

 

[Kiba]

Not sure of the exact production or purchase date as I bought it from the PX here a few years ago for my friend.

The parallax knob does have the triangular marking with the infinity mark, and the elevation turret does have the ramp marks at the second revolution transition area.

I sent ATI an email, hopefully hear back tomorrow.

I pulled it out of the mount today and the parallax is still goofed, I could not get a clear image at 350+ yards, the parallax knob was maxed at infinity and still needed more rotation. It's fairly obvious now why there is an issue... there's a fairly heavy ring mark (more than a mark as I can catch my fingernail in the divot, you might even call it a light dent or tube distortion) on the left side of the scope tube in front of the turret box from the previous owner. Oops.

 

[nn8734]

Ah, so a second gen...sorry to hear about that...def sounds like the mechanism is malfunctioning. Hopefully it’s covered under their in-distribution network warranty with the 80% of retail credit.

 

[Kiba]

My friend is keeping his fingers crossed that this scope is one of the "covered" serial numbers. He's been wanting to try a TT for a while, looks like this may be his opportunity... LOL

He has 3 other Premiers besides this one that are still working OK-- 2 other 5-25 Gen2XR and a 3-15.

 

[Kiba]

Just heard back from Crystal at ATI… bad news. Worst possible news, actually.

The problem scope is a 2011 T&E unit that somehow made it to the PX here where I picked it up-- and since it was a T&E unit there is no warranty or available trade in credit. So my friend now has a $2500 paperweight.

Sucks for my friend, but I did caution him several times about buying scopes from a defunct manufacturer with questionable service/warranty support going forward… but ending up with a former T&E unit with *zero* warranty support is something I didn’t even consider.

Not sure what he’s going to do now, but I bet he’s reconsidering buying a TT…

Sure would be nice if Paul Lange still had the equipment and parts to service these scopes.

 

[nn8734]

So sorry to hear that! Unfortunately that the risks we take when buying Premiers. I love these scopes but I know that if my 5-25 fails I’m going to have to buy another scope (I won’t trade it in as I would go with S&B or Minox).

Kindly keep us posted as to what he decides to do....

 

[jbailey]

Sure would be nice if Paul Lange still had the equipment and parts to service these scopes.

Do you know Paul can't fix it? Have you spoken to him? It might be worth asking him... worst he can say is NO.

 

[nn8734]

Do you know Paul can't fix it? Have you spoken to him? It might be worth asking him... worst he can say is NO.

It’s maybe worth a shot in the dark but I spoke to him about eight months ago and he told me there is nothing he can do with repsect to Premier scope repairs. Tangent Theta made him send all the tooling, etc back to their head quarters in Canada and he’s now with Schmidt and Bender

 

[Kiba]

Yep, that's the info I have too regarding all the old Premier parts inventory and tooling-- TT took it all back from Paul.

I wasn't aware Paul was with S&B now. I had to deal with S&B service about a month ago when the elevation turret on my S&B 3-20 wouldn't rotate through the second revolution and then lost the 0.1 mil clicks when dialing back to zero; called them up and they said to send it in. I received it back good as new a couple weeks later, no charge for the work or return shipping. Painless as dealing with Vortex. Wish the Premier 5-25 in question could receive the same treatment.

It may end up being disassembled in the name of science. I've always wanted to see inside a good scope...

 

[Macca]

Besides Iron Sights,there must be some optical engineers around who could fix it.
I’d be hammering boards like CMP & Accurate Shooter to get some leads,other wise it’s an expensive paper weight.