Sizing LC Once fired

[mjspeers]

What’s the best method? Bushing die or expander mandrel? Have a regular Hornady die with expander button or a Redding type S.

These were not fired in my guns. May use some for bolt gun prairie dog rounds or in gas guns, just a bunch to have around. Most of it is in good shape, some dents here and there.

 

[Dogtown]

I don’t think it’s an either or question. If you want to control neck tension at a basic level, use a bushing die to get the brass back into spec. If you want even more control, run it through a mandrel after the bushing die.

 

[mjspeers]

I don’t think it’s an either or question. If you want to control neck tension at a basic level, use a bushing die to get the brass back into spec. If you want even more control, run it through a mandrel after the bushing die.

True. Poorly worded my question. I typically control neck tension with bushing dies but there are some dents in the neck. The Hornady I think sets .001 tension, I like .002. Am I okay going bushing and will any dents come out with the bushing or searing bullet

 

[ma smith]

Alot depends on how much volume with what kind of efficiency your setup allows. I would add the lee collet die to your list of options, also.

are you doing 250 or 2 thousand cases?

 

[mjspeers]

Little over 1000. Currently on removing primer crimps. Zero press, Henderson trimmer.

 

[FuhQ]

What’s the best method? Bushing die or expander mandrel? Have a regular Hornady die with expander button or a Redding type S.

These were not fired in my guns. May use some for bolt gun prairie dog rounds or in gas guns, just a bunch to have around. Most of it is in good shape, some dents here and there.

Depends... Were they range pickups? Shot through a bolt gun, AR, or machine-gun? I used to work at a machine gun range, and took home plenty of once-fired LC 7.62x51 brass from the M60 and M240Bravo machine guns. Machine guns tend to have sloppy chambers to ensure reliability from looser chamber tolerances, and the brass tends to swell much larger than a properly-cut bolt-action rifle chamber. I found this out first-hand, when trying to neck-size some once-fired LC just to see if it would fit. Nope. The base was swollen larger and the neck measurement on the machine gun was longer than the chamber on my R700 5R Milspec .308 Win. So they had to be FL-sized back down below SAAMI spec before they would fit in the chamber to be fire-formed to MY chamber. After that, they're good to go, and I've been neck-sizing them and they're fine.

Also learned that H&K machine guns with their fluted chambers will destroy brass, and make it basically non-reusable.

 

[ma smith]

As long as you have a turret die, the whole thing is easy enough, just an extra handle pull. Collets or mardrels will fixed ding in neck. Collet basically has a mandrel inside it. Annealing and pin gauges are also good idea if you don't already do this. They all really go together.

 

[J. W.]

Tagging this for interest in the same question. I've got a lot of LC brass laying around. Can't make my mind up if I'm going to load 5.56 or cut it down for .300 BLK. I've been getting set up with mandrels but haven't used any of them yet.

Depends... Were they range pickups? Shot through a bolt gun, AR, or machine-gun? I used to work at a machine gun range, and took home plenty of once-fired LC 7.62x51 brass from the M60 and M240Bravo machine guns. Machine guns tend to have sloppy chambers to ensure reliability from looser chamber tolerances, and the brass tends to swell much larger than a properly-cut bolt-action rifle chamber. I found this out first-hand, when trying to neck-size some once-fired LC just to see if it would fit. Nope. The base was swollen larger and the neck measurement on the machine gun was longer than the chamber on my R700 5R Milspec .308 Win. So they had to be FL-sized back down below SAAMI spec before they would fit in the chamber to be fire-formed to MY chamber. After that, they're good to go, and I've been neck-sizing them and they're fine.

Hey not to derail his thread, but since it came up, and it sounds like you're the perfect person to ask... I always wondered about premature case head separation on brass fired out of a machine gun. Seems like with the looser chambers, you'd get a lot of stretch around the web and pretty short brass life, is that not the case?

 

[FuhQ]

Tagging this for interest in the same question. I've got a lot of LC brass laying around. Can't make my mind up if I'm going to load 5.56 or cut it down for .300 BLK. I've been getting set up with mandrels but haven't used any of them yet.

Hey not to derail his thread, but since it came up, and it sounds like you're the perfect person to ask... I always wondered about premature case head separation on brass fired out of a machine gun. Seems like with the looser chambers, you'd get a lot of stretch around the web and pretty short brass life, is that not the case?

I haven't really noticed any difference, honestly. LC 7.62 is some pretty thick brass, it should last just fine.

As for the .223/5.56 range pickups... I don't reload 5.56, although I do have the means and equipment to do so. I don't run a progressive press, so I don't feel like hand-cranking that shit for 1,000 rounds with multiple steps per round. So, every single piece of .223 and 5.56 NATO brass that I pickup or acquire gets cut down and reformed into .300 BLK.

And for all semi-auto (mainly .300 BLK & 6.5 Grendel) cartridges that I reload for, get FL resized every time. I only neck-size brass for my bolt-actions.

 

[MediumSpeed]

A while back I bought a 5 gallon bucket of mostly LC once fired brass - some of it had been fired from I assume a belt fed with a pretty loose chamber - full length sizing worked for most of them but some were bulged at the base of the cartridge and wouldn't fit a sherridan chamber checker

 

[FuhQ]

A while back I bought a 5 gallon bucket of mostly LC once fired brass - some of it had been fired from I assume a belt fed with a pretty loose chamber - full length sizing worked for most of them but some were bulged at the base of the cartridge and wouldn't fit a sherridan chamber checker
View attachment 8066953

M60’s and AR10’s are terrible about bulging the bases from a generous chamber…At least, from my experiences reusing brass fired from them.

The worst guns about wrecking brass is either an H&K G3, CETME, or the LaRue Tactical rifles with their weird fluted chambers (similar to H&K).

Ironically, one of the least struggle-to-resize brass from guns in my experience, is the M134 Minigun. At least, the one my local range has, the chambers seem to be spec’d very nicely.

 

[mjspeers]

Interesting. The bulk of this brass was bought from here. Seems to be in decent shape. I don’t have a brass gauge. FL size then just see if it chambers? Or do I need some sort of gauge and check it all?

 

[OkieMike]

5.56 or 7.62?

Never had to do anything real special with 5.56

LC 7.62 is another matter. The first batch of it I ever had to deal with was from Top Brass... It was already supposedly sized when I got it. I guess it was, it fired OK the first time. But it was a SOB to resize after that. Took a couple firings before it got better. Now it's no different than anything else.

Mike

 

[mjspeers]

5.56. Most of it seems to have four notches as crimps verses a circle around the whole primer pocket.

 

[OkieMike]

I size my LC 5.56 with a plain old RCBS small base sizer with the expander ball... Because it's what I have on hand. The one thing I like about RCBS dies is you can thread the expander ball in and leave it a bit loose so it will float a little. NOTE: I deprime as a separate operation so breaking the pin isn't a worry for me.

I never really had any expectations for supreme accuracy out of it. But it has surprised me on more than one occasion.

It's probably light years from what others do for accurizing LC brass... But it works for me.

Mike

 

[NCHillbilly]

Tagging this for interest in the same question. I've got a lot of LC brass laying around. Can't make my mind up if I'm going to load 5.56 or cut it down for .300 BLK. I've been getting set up with mandrels but haven't used any of them yet.

Hey not to derail his thread, but since it came up, and it sounds like you're the perfect person to ask... I always wondered about premature case head separation on brass fired out of a machine gun. Seems like with the looser chambers, you'd get a lot of stretch around the web and pretty short brass life, is that not the case?

I can add a little insight to this question. I bought 500 once fired LC 7.62x51 years ago. The headstamp was 91. Some of this brass was stupid hard to fl resize. I got it sized, but due to my inexperience at the time, I did not segregate the hard to size brass from the normal brass. Needless to say, quite a few cases had partial head separation upon the second firing. None came completely apart, but I don't keep any 7.62 cases of mine that have a 91 hs. I'll keep a few just to use toset up the annealer, otherwise I crush the necks and toss them in the junk brass bucket.

If it's legit mg brass, proceed with caution, and separate the normal sized stuff from the blown out cases.

 

[FuhQ]

Interesting. The bulk of this brass was bought from here. Seems to be in decent shape. I don’t have a brass gauge. FL size then just see if it chambers? Or do I need some sort of gauge and check it all?

I mean, Hornady .308 case gauges are like $20…And will last indefinitely. Worth the investment if you have large amounts of random pickup brass to ensure its sizing down to spec to become fire-formed in your chambers.

But, if you want to do it the old school redneck method (which I still do most of the time, because I only have case gauges for semi-auto cartridges), FL sizing, then seeing if the empty brass will chamber works to give you a baseline whether your die is sizing them back down enough, or if you are going to need a “small-base” FL sizing die.

 

[FuhQ]

5.56. Most of it seems to have four notches as crimps verses a circle around the whole primer pocket.

You’ll need an RCBS Primer Crimp Removal Tool for that. Small size for 5.56, large size for 7.62. Get yourself a drill adapter for it and thank me later. Midway sells all of that.

Small
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012921650?pid=254170

Large

RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center Military Crimp Remover-2 Large

The RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center helps to make the tedious tasks of chamfering, deburring, primer pocket cleaning, military crimp removal and flash...

www.midwayusa.com

Handle
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101293377?pid=477820

Drill adapter…

Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Power Adapter

The Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool is designed to cut primer pockets to a uniform depth and square them up with the case head. This helps to...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Molon]

5.56. Most of it seems to have four notches as crimps verses a circle around the whole primer pocket.

Stab crimps initiated in the 5.56mm line with the introduction of M855A1.

...

 

[NCHillbilly]

Yeah, LC used that style crimp in 2012-2014 also. Treat it the same way. Swage it or cut it out.

 

[whak_a_woodchuck]

Size mine with Redding bushing die, swage primer pocket, prime, powder, seat and shoot

 

[volucris]

Full length size, swage, trim, deburr, chamfer, and then finally anneal and label the lot ready. LC brass is the best there is in 223 after a little sorting.

 

[mjspeers]

What's the logic on dealing with the primer pocket after sizing? Just curious if I'll have problems doing it before sizing, I don't think that I should.

I'm mostly through my process. I decapped, wet tumbled, annealed, primer reamer (don't have swaging tool), size, trim/chamfer/debur, tumble

 

[J. W.]

What's the logic on dealing with the primer pocket after sizing? Just curious if I'll have problems doing it before sizing, I don't think that I should.

I'm mostly through my process. I decapped, wet tumbled, annealed, primer reamer (don't have swaging tool), size, trim/chamfer/debur, tumble

Shouldn’t have any issues. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question, but once you swage or trim that crimp, it’s basically like any other piece of brass.

 

[volucris]

What's the logic on dealing with the primer pocket after sizing? Just curious if I'll have problems doing it before sizing, I don't think that I should.

I'm mostly through my process. I decapped, wet tumbled, annealed, primer reamer (don't have swaging tool), size, trim/chamfer/debur, tumble

I deprime and size in the same press motion on a progressive. You're just adding time to decap, then swage, then also size in a different step.

Ideal situation is to use a Dillon equipped with trimmer and swager, so it can go right to chamfer and deburr, then anneal.

I get most of my LC brass as pickups after training events at ranges because so many people are fine leaving money on the ground. Been processing brass like this for a decade.

 

[supercorndogs]

i would anneal before sizing.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Unless you have a ton of free time I would box it up and sent it to MS processed brass. For less than a nickel a piece they will do it for you. If your fussy about a nice chamfer on the case mouth just run it through a Giraud and your good to go. https://msprocessedbrass.com/product-category/brass-processing-service

 

[mjspeers]

Unless you have a ton of free time I would box it up and sent it to MS processed brass. For less than a nickel a piece they will do it for you. If your fussy about a nice chamfer on the case mouth just run it through a Giraud and your good to go. https://msprocessedbrass.com/product-category/brass-processing-service

Ha. That's a pretty good deal, but I've done the bulk of the work, my fingers would've preferred this method. All that's left is run them through a Henderson, which is probably the easiest step. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

 

[918v]

I would body size them first as an intermediate step before FL sizing in order to prevent brass shaving like in the above pic.

 

[supercorndogs]

Ha. That's a pretty good deal, but I've done the bulk of the work, my fingers would've preferred this method. All that's left is run them through a Henderson, which is probably the easiest step. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

At 50 per thousand, you are over halfway to to a Frakford Arsenal swagger. Its a lot easier than cutting them when you are doing them by the thousands. I know I see people say they can cut them faster, and they can clean cases faster with steel wool and drill than tumbling. I feel like those might be people who don't do a lot of volume, or maybe their fingers look like this.

^^^^^^Dude probably had one of these Lee Trimmers.

I swaged a couple two gallon buckets with my Frankfort Arsenal swagger. No finger pain.

 

[NH4X]

,,^^^^^^^^^^not my hands....................yet...but not far off.....guitar playing sux with stiff fingers ,too. Oh, yeah I'm that steel wool ,cutter guy you talking bout

Edit : low volume ,also

 

[babyguppy]

You’ll need an RCBS Primer Crimp Removal Tool for that. Small size for 5.56, large size for 7.62. Get yourself a drill adapter for it and thank me later. Midway sells all of that.

Small
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012921650?pid=254170

Large

RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center Military Crimp Remover-2 Large

The RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center helps to make the tedious tasks of chamfering, deburring, primer pocket cleaning, military crimp removal and flash...

www.midwayusa.com

Handle
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101293377?pid=477820

Drill adapter…

Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool Power Adapter

The Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer Tool is designed to cut primer pockets to a uniform depth and square them up with the case head. This helps to...

www.midwayusa.com

I like this one

 

[918v]

I like this one

No, that’s a primer pocket uniformer

 

[918v]

Trim Mate Military Crimp Remover-2 | RCBS

The redesigned Trim Mate Military Crimp Remover—2 speeds up case processing and reduces the amount of primer pocket being cut away.

www.rcbs.com

 

[mjspeers]

I did buy the RCBS one. It worked okay. Used both that and a standard reamer, between the two it went okay but fingers still needed a break every 200 or so.

 

[918v]

With the RCBS you have to use a very slow speed.

 

[babyguppy]

No, that’s a primer pocket uniformer

ugg, you are correct. My apologies. I as well use the RCBS crimp removal.