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Gunsmithing So i want to make a stock?

shadow_sniper

shadow_sniper

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 20, 2007
155
0
jacksonville, FL
#1
I want to make a stock out of aluminum,but I am 16, have no machining experience, and my high school offers no metal/wood shop classes. So I thought I would go for it on my own. I just bought a central machinery mini mill, and all my tooling should be arriving Wednesdays. I am looking at 6061 T6 aluminum. Is this a good metal to start with or is there something cheaper that will work just as good for the project? My mill is small so the stock will have to be made in 3 parts. forearm, lower receiver, the stock(?). I have drawn Sketch up of my idea. No my measurements have been put in yet cause they are going based of the measurements of my original savage 93r17 stock. The reason for posting my sketches is I would like yall to look them over and make sure I am not missing anything major in my design or if this hole idea is mechanically unsound.

rifle0002.jpg

I know a slot is going to be have to be cut into the bottom adjustment bar so the adjustable comb can be raised and lower. What do yall think the minimal dimensions for the main bar and the adjustment bar are going to be? I would like to keep it as light and sturdy as possible but am willing to sacrifice weight for stability.

rifle0001.jpg
This part seems straight forward. my only concern is the way it attaches to the lower receiver.


I think I am going to have a chance to take measurements tomorrow after noon. When i do that i will try to upload a sketch of it too.
 
#3
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I hate to dissuade you or burst any bubbles but that would be a large project dealing with a deadly weapon. Do you have any experience smithing? You should maybe get your feet a little wet before diving in the deep end. I also give you a thumbs up for enthusiasm.
 
#4
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Articulating what is generally though of as a monolithic object into 3 separate parts is at the very least somewhat optimistic.

Moreover, a high schooler working on gun parts in a home shop could land you in the headlines.

I can't think of a way to offer meaningful advice that wouldn't lead in unproductive directions.

You need to hold off on such projects until you have more practical machinist experience under your belt, and perhaps more authority to enact your intentions. Subsequently, look into continuing your education at places like The Colorado School of Gunsmithing. Very appropriate to your intentions.

FWIW, we all had such endeavors on our minds when we were in your place. Some of us discovered the folly of our ways the hard way, others held off and learned truer wisdom in the process.

Greg
 
#5
Re: So i want to make a stock?

If I am reading your profile correctly, you are in Jacksonville, FL - haven't been there in many years, but unless it has gone incredibly far left, you shouldn't have a problem being branded as a "black raincoat" boy unless you do something stupid.

Certainly there is a local community college close by that has a metal working program. Enrolling would get you the technical training you want and give you college credits toward some future degree. It would also give you an adult instructor supervising/training you so that your personal project is simply an extension of what you are studying and not some whacko kid trying to build a gun.

What really sucks is that you should even have to consider these sorts of things.

I say go for it - that mini-mill may not have enough muscle to do everything you want, but you will learn a lot.

Good luck.
 
#6
Re: So i want to make a stock?

cm,

If you aren't already trying to find one, get access to some type of CAD program. There are a bunch out there and even the cheap ones are a fair amount of money. Ask around the local trade schools or colleges with engineering depts.

Your sketches show that you have an interest in assemblies and can imagine 3D work in your head. You just need to get more experience with your sketching (getting your ideas onto paper in a manner that makes sense to others) and, sooner or later, some type of computer modeling.

If you can access a copy of (insert CAD name here)you can eventually model your idea, create an STL file and do a plastic prototype scaled down version of your parts to see if they work as an assembly.

Aluminum and time spent reducing it to a finished part will be much more productive if you do as much pre-planning and research as possible on your project.

From a learning and hobby interest aspect, go for it in a focused and logical process. As a business aspect, do a ton of research before proceeding so that you don't find yourself accidentally trying to duplicate something that is already out there.

Terry
 
#7
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Hello

I can't see your drawings from this computer so I can't comment on them.

As others have said be careful with firearms due to your age and account for the obvious danger and legal issues. However I assume your parents have knowledge of your plans if for no other reason than the funding required for your project. With their approval and supervision go for it.

You will learn alot in the process.

Sim
 
#8
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Google Karsten's Stocks...he does aluminum three piece stocks that are fine. You can pick up some ideas there. Not to copy but to avoid wasting time and material on unnecessary frills. 6061 T6 is aircraft grade and will be tough enough IMHO. Remember that while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, there are patents out there. Copying a product for yourself isn't patent infringement. Making one or more for someone else for gift or sale is.
 
#9
Re: So i want to make a stock?

thank you for all your concerns but if making gun parts lands me in the news then that where i want to be. I dont see how i could be charged with anything other than being creative. I am not manufacturing a firearm. I dont really have time for taking colleges machining classes at the moment. Between AP classes and JROTC in school and coaching youth soccer 2 days a week I kinda have a full plate. I read alot about it online and at the library. I have also watch videos from the MIT machine shop and learned a lot of the basics there. Having some CAD software would be nice but I am going broke. This is all a self funded project. I worked on a farm in Texas all summer saving for my mill and tooling. My parents are cool with me doing it. I sketched an almost exact copy of McRee's butt-end of the stock before I researched and found McRees stocks. So far they are the only Stock maker I can find. I search for Karsten's Stocks but found nothing other that M1A1 stocks and adjustable comb pieces.
 
#10
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Good for you young man! This country has gone so far left in the last 25 years it makes me sick.
I went to a small/medium size school in north central Pa. and we used to have a rifle range in the school! I made a gunstock for my deer rifle in wood shop my senior year. I also blued several of my families rifles in metal shop and drilled and tapped several actions for mounting scopes. All under the supervision of our shop teachers.
I also made a little civil war replica canon that shot marbles. That was the only project that caused any slack....they told me not to drill the flash hole till I got it home.

I think I would first make a prototype out of wood before forking out the greenbacks on the alum. Keep your parents in the loop and keep that mind of yours working. Good luck!
 
#11
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Good for you cm92. Keep up the enthusiasium. Start with plastic acrylic or even better use starboard . Easy to machine and super cheap. If you need some starboard chuncks I might be able to get some as I use them myself to prototype projects. The central table mill is what I started with and now have a Haas VF2 and use Mastercam to write all my programs. If you have any extra money get a Digital readout for the mill. It will help you reproduce the same part .
Good Luck.
 
#12
Re: So i want to make a stock?

The legalities would be few but specific. Some states have folding stock restrictions. Some have pistol grip restrictions. Some have vertical fore-grip restrictions. Some have over all length restrictions. Kalifornia has ALL of them
frown.gif

Looking at your drawing the ONLY thing that comes to mind is my Windrunner and Septic13's run it with the objective lens. Don't use clamps that adjust length of pull, use some form of locks. No one likes frown lines above their shooting eye.
wink.gif


Replace "statue" with stock, "cut" with mill, "David" with stock.
After marveling at Michelangelo’s statue of Goliath-vanquishing David, the Pope asked the sculptor, “How do you know what to cut away?”

Michelangelo’s reply? “It’s simple. I just remove everything that doesn’t look like David.”
 
#13
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Hey man, go for it! I built my first gun at around 19 and it was a fifty cal. I am self taught at machining and having a project you are excited about is a great motivator. The only advise I have is first, get a good machinist vise. Everyone I know who buys a small mill buys the cheap $19.95 6 inch chinese vise. One of the $100 - 150 machining vises that msc or enco sell will work fine. Second, pick up a book or video on running a mill. If you have no one teaching you then you may not know how to properly set up parts for machining. Above all else be safe!! If you are unsure stop and ask someone.
 
#14
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I think it's great that someone wants to work on their own rifle, regardless the age. As long as the legal limitations are taken care of (mostly the 18 year old restriction...your local laws may be restrictive, check the law yourself and don't take the opinion of anybody on the internet) then I don't have a problem.

Your sketch is strikingly similar to one of McRee's models...don't make it look too close for patent reasons. As far as full aluminum stocks, as far as I know McRee is the only one that's commercially available. Other stock makers include McMillan, Manners, Bell and Carlson, and HS Precision. Take a look at their bedding block designs to see if you can glean anything from them.

I'll second using wood or plastic for your prototypes...it's cheaper and softer, hence cuts can be made more quickly. And when you goon it up ('cause you will...everybody does) it's cheap to get a new piece and start again.

There should be some machinists on NAS, why don't you ask around and see if one of them would be willing to help you out on this project? From my own experience, tools can be bought by anybody, but the knowledge of how to properly use the tools is absolutely invaluable.
 
#15
Re: So i want to make a stock?

My Dad has had me working on wood stocks since I was 14. Go for it.

I might try to incorporate other matereials though. What you are proposing looks like the finished weight will be heavy. I personally think an AICS chassis for the Rem 700 weighs too much.
I'd rather have the extra weight in the barrel.

I started a stock out of laminating 4 pices of birch plywood together. I cut out a rough copy of a Manners T4/McM A5. I then wrapped it with fiberglass cloth and resin. Almost finished.
 
#16
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I had a hawkins muzzle loader kit and I sanded and finished the stock at school. You may want to check out rimfirecentral there is alot of info about building stocks from scratch and there was a guy on the who was building an aluminum stock.
 
#19
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Good for you! What are your plans for the grip section of the stock? One thing you may want to work on is the slots you have, that I assume are for LOP adjustment. Under recoil, it is unlikely that it will stay put, you may want to think about replacing the bottom slot with a series of tapped holes to have a solid stop on the adjustment....you could keep both slots but you will want to at least add something to lock it together besides the friction of the slot clamps.
 
#20
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Bryan even though you cant tell from my sketch, I had planed all along to have a series of tapped holes along the the bottom. No one likes a scope to the eye. I have question about tapping a blind hole. When taping a blind can you straight from a taper tap to a bottoming tap or do you need a plug tap too. In terms of the grip I was planing on AR-15 grip but I cant find diagram that has the dimensions of the where the grip attaches anywhere. I am also looking at possibly making the forearm out of wood. Can anyone recommend a good hard wood for this application. If a wood is good is not going to be able to take alot of abuse then I would rather just do all in aluminum. I took measurements of the receiver today and I am in the process of drawing up the lower receiver sections but it may be a day or 2 before i have time to finish it.
 
#21
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Back in the day when US Navy submarines had deck guns and decks to fire them from, the deck boards were made of teak. It's dense and hard to work, but you'll never worry about it once it's on there.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about doing the forearm in wood. It looks like doing the main body of the stock is going to require the detail work. Making a forearm shouldn't worry you a bit after the center section.
 
#22
Re: So i want to make a stock?

OK; I figure if your parents are OK with this, so should I be.

My suggestion would be to maybe rethink your project to something smaller, but as critical to accuracy as an entire stock resembling yor nitial design. think of it as a series of prototyping stages. I was thinking that most of what you desire to accomplish can be incorporated into a bedding block/adapter fixture that would be small enough to be accomodated as a single piece on your machinery. This can then, in turn, be inletted and bedded into a more conventionally fabricated wood or composite stock.

Maybe this can simplify your task, and still provide the pride of craftsmanship.

Greg
 
#23
Re: So i want to make a stock?

there's a place in PA that sells large blocks of balsa, I bought 2 blocks 38"l x 4"w x 10"h for under 30 bucks this last spring for a light weight stock project i am working on. you might try the balsa, easy to cut and if you jack it up you can glue a new piece in place and start over.

go for it, be safe and do your research. keep us posted on your progress
 
#25
Re: So i want to make a stock?

+1 on the good vice! I'm guessing that you have some accurate measuring tools? Make sure you know your feeds and speeds for the cutter that you are using. Above all do it safely remembering your PPE.

I say go for it!! If you stuff it up........start again, gotta learn somehow.

I congratulate you on your enthusiasm and initiative. Well done
grin.gif


Frank
 
#26
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I would also emphasize the value in mocking up a prototype in a material that's relatively inexpensive and more forgiving. A coping saw, drill, and hot glue gun are small investments that can pay dividends in evaluating an assembly before you start making chips.

As for safety, I'll say mills are no joke and like any machine they don't suffer fools (not implying you are one, just keep your head around what your are doing when working with such equipment). Many of the best machinists I know are either missing digits or have stories about almost losing them. It's a genuine risk.

Your sketch demonstrates a mechanical aptitude. It's refreshing to see in today's youth. Build on it because it will serve you well through life regardless of your chosen profession. You'll learn, if you haven't already discovered, that not everybody has it!
wink.gif


- Fret
 
#27
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I have a caliper and have access to a micrometer if i need it. I cant read my own measurements of the the receiver and inlet. I had never seen gun out of a stock before so I was kinda in aww at how it worked. So this time when I pull it apart I am going to be better prepared. But it will probably be sunday before I can pull it apart again. I am looking into wood to make a prototype out of. Fiberglass is a no go. And I am still looking for an answer to my question about taps in my last post.
 
#29
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I had some time today so I went to lowel and got some red oak. 3x3x36. I haven't remeasuremed my reciever yet but i was itching to make something. So I made a collet holder. I was good practice. I got it done but I ran into a few problems. I dont know were to find cutting speeds at. So I kinda just guessed and adjusted till i thought it was right. But I would like to find a source of where to find them. and when I was using a flycutter to square the wood the edges were pilling and ripping the wood. what is this from and does it happen on metal?

PA070030.jpg
PA090038.jpg
 
#30
Re: So i want to make a stock?

nice work,
I have an old machinist's handbook 60's vintage I think...
good book with feeds/speeds/materials, etc...
shoot me a pm and I'll mail it to you....

good work.... measure...measure...measure, then cut....
 
#32
Re: So i want to make a stock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cm92</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have question about tapping a blind hole. When taping a blind can you straight from a taper tap to a bottoming tap or do you need a plug tap too. </div></div>

This depends on the hardness of the material being tapped. If using Aluminum, you could get away with missing the middle one because the material is soft. In saying that, thread form will always be better if you use the 3 taps. If it's a blind hole, and you use only two taps, worse case scenario is that the thread form in the very bottom of the hole will not be as good. That should not matter if the hole is deep enough to provide adequate grip at the top of the hole.

Your call.


Frank
 
#33
Re: So i want to make a stock?

This is very refreshing to see a young man trying to figure out better ways to do things. Do not let anyone discourage your intentions. Just be sure you are always within the limits of reason. I applaud your zeal for gunsmithing.
 
#34
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I would skip the taper tap on soft metal, and just go from plug to bottoming. Just remember to use cutting fluid appropriate for the metal that you are working with and plenty of it.

To answer your other question, no, metal will not peel and slinter like the wood did with the fly cutter.

Always wear safety glasses and be careful.
 
#35
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Ok so this took longer than I hoped but I finally got started on the prototyping in wood today. I figure I am going to only prototype the lower receiver section on the stock because it is by far the hardest part to mill. I didn't have time to finish today. I also hit a bump. That i am unsure about. The rim on the inlet is convexly curved to make the the shape of the receiver. I have not way to mill this with out a ball end mill or many be a router bit of some kind. So i was thinking that may be I could mill it flat at 45 degree angle instead of the curve. This would also make sure the receiver is centered in the lower receiver when it is tighten down but in turn this would give less over all contact between the two which can be bad. would do yall think i should do?


PA180003.jpg
 
#36
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Both the AICS and the HS Precison bedding blocks are made with two contact points like you would get with a 45° angle like you are talking about. I would say they are both acceptible, so your stock likely won't suffer from employing that technique as well.

Dave
 
#37
Re: So i want to make a stock?

I screwed up the prototype. Instead of cutting a 45 degree slots I cut 30 degree and that makes the receiver is that way to low in the lower receiver section. So I am going to try to make it again but use 45 degree slots and take some better measurements. I have also come across a problem in the design. Were the 3 prongs on the forearm meet the receiver. I have not way to mill the slots on the side of the lower receiver. I have thought about milling the slots with a .25 inch end mill so that the corners of the slots are rounded then take a router bit and run it over the conners of the prongs and see if that works. O and I broke my first tool I dropped my dial test indicator and smash the whole side up and now the neddle dont move.
 
#39
Re: So i want to make a stock?

ok I have finally started to get a foot hold on the is project. Doesn't look like much has been done sense the last picture but I ended up scraping that piece of wood and started over plus the 45 degree cuts took for ever to mill caused it was a trial and error type thing.
PC060007.jpg

PC060008.jpg

PC060011.jpg

PC060012.jpg
 
#40
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Young Man, all I can say is "GO FOR IT !".

I cant believe some of you guys trying to talk him out of working on a firearm.....

He is building a stock for Christ sake. I think it is a wonderful thing that he has the "give a shit" to try something that 99% of the people in the world would never think about.

Sir,
I have a humble set of tools and equipment but if there is anything you need that I can help with, feel free to give me a shout. I will give you my cell phone number and you can call me anytime. I think what you are doing is fantastic. Sure, you will make some mistakes but that is how we learn. As you did above, use wood or something that is cheap and get the "hang" of things before you start on your aluminum.

I for one am damn glad to see some of our youth trying something, thinking for themselves, working hard to earn their money to buy tooling, and building something that he takes interest in. Keep it up buddy...never know, you may turn into the Next John McMillan, or George Gardner......may even be better, who knows.

Take care

Ben
 
#41
Re: So i want to make a stock?

If you really want to help I could use the name of a company that makes a good tilting vise that will fit in my mill. also would I be able to use a router bit in my mill on aluminum. i have a spindle speed of 2500 at max.
 
#42
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Tried using a router bit but it dint work out so well. I also had to get another piece of wood to make the forearm out of and this piece slit alot and cut nothing like the piece the receiver is made out of. I made the trigger guard out of aluminum. It turned out ok. I think getting a good surface finish an art form. O and FUCK FLY CUTTERS. I tried using on to square of the piece of aluminum and the damn think flew off missing my arm by about 2 inches and took a big chuck out of the plastic diamond plate rubber on my work bench. I will not being using another on of those till some can show how not to impale my self.

PC160022.jpg

PC160023.jpg

PC160025.jpg
 
#43
Re: So i want to make a stock?

i have mixed feelings about this project. the first is your making a 3 piece stock, whats next hacking off the barrel? Please just be safe! the second is if you are doing this for a legit project, then by all means go do it! none of us would be here today without trial and error. Just think snipers hide family, no badger, no surgeon, no nsx NF, or USO! Also there has to be a machine shop close to you. Go see if you can be an apprentise from a machinist or maybe work part time sweeping the floors in trade for some lessons on milling! Check out some great tech schools as well such as sun area technical institute in new berlin, pa or pennsylvania school of technology wich is run by penn state and is located in williamsport pennsylvania.
good luck my friend
 
#44
Re: So i want to make a stock?

rdnkasole, if I had a lathe I sure as hell would cut the barrel down to 16.5 and throw on some bad ass look muzzle brake. Just so I can say that I did it.

So after a long wait I have final got enough money together to buy a stick of aluminum. It was cheap in the long run to buy a 12 foot piece locally that few small pieces online. I have also changed the design a good bit. Here are a few pics on getting started. I took a piece of 11.5x2x2 and turned into a piece of 11x1.45x1.9. I have also started to cut the center slot, but I am only at about half the depth I need.

The mark on the left is from not having enough table travel to start with a fly cutter off the part. The step is not near as bad as the pic makes it. it can barely be felt with the nail. I will sand this down when I get the whole thing put together.

P4046289.jpg

P4046290.jpg
 
#47
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Damn the torpedos (naysayers, negative nellies, etc)...full steam ahead!
I can't say enough to encourage you. How cool.
Safety first! Seriously.
Remember also that rigidity is your friend in machining.
Great job.
 
#48
Re: So i want to make a stock?

Rigidity is every thing to me. My machine has the HP to make alot bigger cuts but it cant because the thing shakes so bad. Well here is an update. Almost done with this part only have to take some off the bottom and drill/counter sink the action screw holes.

P4076291.jpg
 
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