So the Air Force P320 incident was actually murder

[ironpony52]

The airman was murdered, no UD involved. I guess it was a good try to blame the gun.................

Airman arrested for death that prompted Air Force-wide safety review of Sig M18

Airman Brayden Lovan, 21, died on July 20, 2025 at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming. His death remains under investigation.

taskandpurpose.com

 

[Ronws]

There you go ruining our thunder. So many delicious memes in a short amount of time.

Actually, that article is a nothing-burger and does not prove that it was not a bad gun. They stated it could be manslaughter, which is less intentional than murder. Maybe he failed to tell them that he droppe the sig and then it went off.

Struggling to keep my jokes relevant....

 

[sirhrmechanic]

This is going to be a huge plus for SIG... wow.

Got to give it to the murderer... he was creative.

Sirhr

 

[918v]

I was just thinking that if the gun had fired in the holster the slide would have recoiled, hit the retention hood/strap, and the empty would have stayed in the chamber. If dude was murdered the shooter would have had to pick up the empty case and put it back in the chamber and that would have made additional marks on the case from the extractor and the ejector.

 

[ColinW]

Yeeeouch!! That's gnarly...

 

[ironpony52]

I was just thinking that if the gun had fired in the holster the slide would have recoiled, hit the retention hood/strap, and the empty would have stayed in the chamber. If dude was murdered the shooter would have had to pick up the empty case and put it back in the chamber and that would have made additional marks on the case from the extractor and the ejector.

That was the discrepancy in one of the LEO UD's. The gun was supposedly holstered but the casing was on the floor. LEO lied.

 

[Fig]

Doh! For all the Sig hater dog pilers.
I have a couple of old ones and a 365, so I never had a dog in the hunt. I’m just

 

[Freedom790]

Just going off of what is publicly available information, it's still entirely plausible that it was a firearm that went off in the holster. Still a possibility that Lovan was killed by the recently arrested Airman's pistol, and that Airman panicked when making his statement making a false statement.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[ironpony52]

Just going off of what is publicly available information, it's still entirely plausible that it was a firearm that went off in the holster. Still a possibility that Lovan was killed by the recently arrested Airman's pistol, and that Airman panicked when making his statement making a false statement.

And maybe a drywall screw fell into the trigger releasing the safety right before the Airman placed the gun on the table.............

 

[theLBC]

could be an accident and not intentional "murder".

never been a fan of striker fired pistols. fun to shoot, but i don't own one (not even a glock!).
i get that it isn't easy for everyone to shoot well with a 10lb trigger pull on that first round.

 

[diggler1833]

Involuntary manslaughter means homey that caught the charges probably F-ed up, but on accident. Going back to my days of being 19 and carrying a loaded M9 all day at work (armory)... I can assure you that the maturity wasn't there yet.

$5 says if this new story is true, that safety rule #2 was probably willingly violated, and dude got really scared and knew of the other instances.

$5 more says that when I was 19, there were a couple sentries playing fast draw games with an M9 on base... and one kid got ventilated and died. We had a safety stand-around for that even though it was not right where I was at. That sounds like a possibility for these new circumstances.

$10 says that one of my fellow platoon sergeants (different company) handed his M9 to his crew chief (Corporal) in Iraqistan to watch while he went inside a building for a few minutes (inside the wire). The kids (Marines) on the vehicle screwed around with that M9 until one of them took a round through the calf. I can't remember who shot who, but I still remember their names. That was the Wild West days of Fallujah.

Etc... etc...

I've got stories for days...but we already have one Lucky Duck.

*****

I have no dog in the P320 fight, other pistols fit my hand much better.

I'm also hoping that some kid didn't get ended by his buddy, screwing around... but I can suppose a thing or two because I've seen/heard a thing or two. Hopefully the second story has an adjudicated and just ending, regardless of what actually happened.

 

[912173]

Just watch, in a few weeks they'll find out sig bribed officials to frame the guy.

 

[Ronws]

I was just thinking that if the gun had fired in the holster the slide would have recoiled, hit the retention hood/strap, and the empty would have stayed in the chamber. If dude was murdered the shooter would have had to pick up the empty case and put it back in the chamber and that would have made additional marks on the case from the extractor and the ejector.

Good point. We will not be allowed to find that out.

 

[higginsworksforme]

Sig framed a guy for murder lmaooooooo

 

[higginsworksforme]

 

[EddieNFL]

There you go ruining our thunder. So many delicious memes in a short amount of time.

Actually, that article is a nothing-burger and does not prove that it was not a bad gun. They stated it could be manslaughter, which is less intentional than murder. Maybe he failed to tell them that he droppe the sig and then it went off.

Struggling to keep my jokes relevant....

When this first happened I told several former AF types the sky cops were most likely fucking around and “ it just went off.” All agreed.

 

[Mike Casselton]

When this first happened I told several former AF types the sky cops were most likely fucking around and “ it just went off.” All agreed.

Remember, USAF cooks need a higher ASVAB score than the cops...

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Involuntary manslaughter means homey that caught the charges probably F-ed up, but on accident. Going back to my days of being 19 and carrying a loaded M9 all day at work (armory)... I can assure you that the maturity wasn't there yet.

$5 says if this new story is true, that safety rule #2 was probably willingly violated, and dude got really scared and knew of the other instances.

$5 more says that when I was 19, there were a couple sentries playing fast draw games with an M9 on base... and one kid got ventilated and died. We had a safety stand-around for that even though it was not right where I was at. That sounds like a possibility for these new circumstances.

$10 says that one of my fellow platoon sergeants (different company) handed his M9 to his crew chief (Corporal) in Iraqistan to watch while he went inside a building for a few minutes (inside the wire). The kids (Marines) on the vehicle screwed around with that M9 until one of them took a round through the calf. I can't remember who shot who, but I still remember their names. That was the Wild West days of Fallujah.

Etc... etc...

I've got stories for days...but we already have one Lucky Duck.

*****

I have no dog in the P320 fight, other pistols fit my hand much better.

I'm also hoping that some kid didn't get ended by his buddy, screwing around... but I can suppose a thing or two because I've seen/heard a thing or two. Hopefully the second story has an adjudicated and just ending, regardless of what actually happened.

"Training Accident" is popular.

 

[cas6969]

I was just thinking that if the gun had fired in the holster the slide would have recoiled, hit the retention hood/strap, and the empty would have stayed in the chamber. If dude was murdered the shooter would have had to pick up the empty case and put it back in the chamber and that would have made additional marks on the case from the extractor and the ejector.

A lack of GSR in the holster would be al lost easier to determine.

Yep could still be dozens of different scenarios as to what happened all across the spectrum.
When I was a kid my dad told me two different stories about airmen shooting themselves / each other screwing around. One where someone was playing cowboy quick draw. The other the guy shot himself through the thigh, through a field phone and into some other stuff, cause .45ACP.

 

[lariat]

Remember, USAF cooks need a higher ASVAB score than the cops...

Well, there are measurements and temperatures and spoons and math and stuff. It checks out.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Well, there are measurements and temperatures and spoons and math and stuff. It checks out.

At a city council meeting they were advocating for a resolution to raise money. I stood up and said that I was tired of their double talk about raising taxes for BS. The chief of police asked me when was the last time I had a pay raise. I told him that I own a business and in order to get a raise I have to sell more product and work harder. When all you do is complain about your wages until these clowns decide to take more of my taxes and give it to you. He then stated that he was a taxpayer also. I laughed out loud and asked him who signed his check and where did the government get the money from. Because they take back some of my taxes doesn't make you a taxpayer.

 

[Ronws]

Also, is it the kind fo holseter that is open for the end of the barrel?

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Was it? With all of the higher ranking officers making millions off the Sig contracts do you really think they are just going to stop buying defective guns over a few deaths? Not a chance.

Security Forces are generally lying, stealing scumbags and they are responsible for 90% of all crime on any air base. That's were this gets hard. They will skew the investigation any way they are ordered to skew it.

The real problem is there are no honest people on any side of the problem. Much like blaming the husband works in every woman's murder, blaming the 20 year old kid with no resources to defend himself works perfectly and keeps the Sig cash rolling.

That junior airmen was given a company lawyer who will manipulate the kid to plead guilty. Or he will get a court martial led by senior officers who want jobs at Sig after they retire.

The UCMJ is the most rigged justice system ever devised. When the outcome is not cut and dried its easily skewed towards the desired results.

 

[nagantguy]

Was it? With all of the higher ranking officers making millions off the Sig contracts do you really think they are just going to stop buying defective guns over a few deaths? Not a chance.

Security Forces are generally lying, stealing scumbags and they are responsible for 90% of all crime on any air base. That's were this gets hard. They will skew the investigation any way they are ordered to skew it.

The real problem is there are no honest people on any side of the problem. Much like blaming the husband works in every woman's murder, blaming the 20 year old kid with no resources to defend himself works perfectly and keeps the Sig cash rolling.

That junior airmen was given a company lawyer who will manipulate the kid to plead guilty. Or he will get a court martial led by senior officers who want jobs at Sig after they retire.

The UCMJ is the most rigged justice system ever devised. When the outcome is not cut and dried its easily skewed towards the desired results.

Much much truth in what you’ve said .

I know someone who took the UCMJ ride - charged with vandalism and arson - while they were not at the location - they were doing a land navigation course at another Camp . One of JAGS damn g evidence against this young marine was that days after the incident he had a knife and a lighter in his possession. A knife and lighter on an Infantry Marine .

Anyhow - wether an airman is responsible for this death or not we will never know but me being a piss no body I can go online and find dozens of videos of the 320/M17 firing itself and 100s of videos of people making their Sig fire when it should not . The latest explanation seems to be that the gun was reassembled incorrectly. Something about using the takedown lever before or instead of the bolt catch . Still a design flaw , one that causes spontaneous no human input firing .