Gunsmithing So what's the best bedding compound?

Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

I have used everything ever mentioned on here, and other places. I now normally use Marine Tex, but also favor Devcon, and Brownells Steel. Here is a clip of what I use and how. It is only one part of many of how to pillar bed. If anyone is interested in seeing the whole thing, just say, and I'll post the whole series for all to see

http://youtu.be/aw2IxqZF-UY
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

OK, I'll post them ASAP. I'm at a party a little busy now, but I'll try to post them tonight depending on how much we drink. If not tonight, then tomorrow for sure.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Ive used Marine Tex and Devcon. They both do a good job, I found Devcon worked better for me. Marine tex seemed to be thicker and didnt flow as good as the Devcon. Just my thoughts,

Kc
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Devcon 10110...although I had to order it. The stuff available locally was not the same item, although similar in name. I just used clear shoe polish for release, with no problems, but there's some commercial product (Dixon recommends) you might consider.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Why is it that people outside of our circle always ask about bedding with some metallic filler? I have a friend with a hunting rifle that has titanium in his bedding ( I assume it's titanium filings mixed into the epoxy? ). I had a guy at the range this weekend ask if my rifle was aluminum bedded. Not sure if he was referring to a chassis or an actual bedding job.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

PM Chad Dixon on here and ask him.
grin.gif
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ajwcotton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PM Chad Dixon on here and ask him.
grin.gif
</div></div>

That's going to bring back a polite response of him telling you that he will never tell what he uses...trade secret...
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Since my name was mentioned, I'll pop in. Normally I avoid these threads because I'm a bit jaded/strict when it comes to this stuff.

Release agents:

A number of things work. Pouring Kendal GT1 oil in a frying pan will keep eggs from sticking too, but is it the best option?

Shoe polish is a wax. It also must be applied by hand which means swirl marks are susceptible to being watermarked into the resin as it cures. To most it's of no concern. If it does bug you, then don't use it.

Wax in general works well and we use it on every bedding job where we need to. Mostly limited to the bedding studs, threads, masking lines. Anywhere I want it to release with the least amount of effort while not being concerned about surface finish.

Based on what I've read One Shot case lube has good results. I wouldn't use it because it seems to have a slime layer. I'd be worried about some of the lube materials somehow contaminating the epoxy. Maybe I'm being a dork for thinking that way, but again it was never designed for the application. Just because it works, it doesn't mean its a good choice.

I personally like a release agent that is sprayed on as it allows even, inclusion free coverage. I want it to flash to a dry film once the solvent/carrier evaporates. Because of this I use an aerosolized mold release. I've bedded close to a thousand guns with it and its never screwed me. I realize a guy at home might not want to pay $30/can, but its an excellent option for those who do/would.

Bedding compounds:

Key things to look for:

1. Long "open clamp time" Meaning your not rushed once its mixed.
2. High Shore Hardness. This is the graduate scale used for rubbers/plastics.
3. Iron free. If your using an epoxy that has steel, make sure its a nonferrous steel like stainless. Moisture has a habit of collecting between receiver/stock. If water gets in there and wicks into the skin layer of bedding it can start to cause rust. Just like on a car fender, the oxidation will grow and cause a blister. This breaks down the resin. Maybe its splitting hairs, but there's a very broad menu of products available so why chance it?
4. Tolerance to acids/alkalies. The solvents used to clean guns can be quite powerful. Your bedding should be immune to their effects.
5. Free of any nylon fillers. Nylon attracts water. It REALLY attracts water. Avoid, avoid, avoid!
6. High torsion/shear/compressive strength. Your gun twists and compresses as it fires. The amount is dependent upon a number of things, but it does happen. Resins need to be able to roll with the punches.
7. Viscosity is something else I look for. Peanut butter doesn't flow well-until you heat it up. This is where the long clamp time comes into play. I heat my bedding compound very carefully prior and while bedding the gun. This encourages a complete mix when putting resin/hardener together. It also insures the stuff wets the substrate (stock) completely. Once it cools back to room temperature it becomes alot stiffer so it tends to stay put. This means it's less likely to try and run out the back of the tang or flow out front below the recoil lug.

8. Practice, practice, practice. The only way to get better at bedding is to do it. You can read, read, read, and all you'll end up with is a hundred different opinions on how to do it right. The more YOU do it, the better you get at it. I realize we all want an instant PHD in this stuff. Nothing replaces experience.

Nothing.

I use a product designed for commercial boiler repair. It's about $40 for a 3oz tube of resin and hardener. Thus far its beaten everything else that I've tried. All of which and more have been mentioned here.

The important thing to remember is this. Once you find a product that performs to your expectation, STICK WITH IT. Don't make the mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel. The longer you use a single product, the more familiar you'll become with it. How it reacts to different temps in your shop. What it does on humid days, vs dry days. How it responds to being warmed up, etc.

On that last note know this. Devcon Titanium is great stuff. Tough as nails. It's also very expensive, finicky about ratios, and has a very SHORT working time. DO NOT attempt to warm this stuff up. IT WILL harden before you get the gun together and you'll have a huge mess. Keep it spread out paper thin on a glass plate so it doesn't build any heat through the chemical reaction. (this is how all epoxy resins cure btw)

DONT MIX ANY epoxy in a cup when bedding a gun. All this does is stir air into the stuff and its how you get air bubbles in your bedding. Mix it on a plate, keep it spread out paper thin, and be mindful of how you apply it in your stock. Glopping it in there with no concern causes air bubbles. This ruins the presentation we all want.

Again, the long clamp time is your friend.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Here's what our bedding jobs look like. Judge for yourself.

DSC_0019.jpg


103_0570.jpg


DSC_0007-1.jpg


103_0750.jpg


103_0753.jpg


C.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Devcon and a little neutral kiwi has always served me well. I use Brownells black epoxy tint to get it a deep black if thats the color I am after. Works well
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Thanks Chad! I think I'm going to give it a try with Marine-Tex and oneshot or paste wax. It's what I have and I've used Marine-Tex before so I know how it reacts. If I FUBAR it I'll send it to you for fixing.
grin.gif
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

http://www.scorehi.com/epoxy-pillar.htm#Pro-Bed%202000

Pro-Bed 2000.

Ease of mixing: A non-critical mix ratio of 1:1 by volume, insures that Pro-Bed 2000 always attains full cure.

Overnight cure: Pro-Bed 2000 attains full cure in approximately 16 hours but still gives its user plenty of work time (approximately 60 to 90 minutes, depending on room temperature.)

Flowability: Pro-Bed 2000 has the perfect consistency. It will flow into all voids of the stock but it still stays where you put it.

Strength: Pro-Bed 2000 uses the highest quality components such as carbon fiber and high compressive strength microscopic spheres that give the cured epoxy greater flexural and compressive strength, while completely eliminating the shrinkage problems. There are no cheap fillers or extenders.

Carvability: Pro-Bed 2000 is not brittle. The cured epoxy can easily be carved, ground or machined without softening or chipping even in very thin sections.

Appearance: The unique characteristics of Pro-Bed 2000 will make it easy to produce a finished product to be proud of, free of voids and surface imperfections for both the professional gunsmith and novice alike.

Clean up: All Pro-Bed 2000 kits come with a generous amount of an extremely high quality mold release agent that is both easy to apply and easy to clean off while giving you the best possible surface finish and debonding characteristics.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I FUBAR it I'll send it to you for fixing.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Don't forget the various labor rates:

Standard: $50/hour
If you watch: $75/hour
If you help: $95/hour
<span style="font-weight: bold">If you've already worked on it: $150/hour </span>
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Thank you for the informative post, Mr. Dixon.

If I may quote a gem from it,


Nothing replaces experience.

Nothing.


A lot of people could do well to copy and paste that to their printer, and stick it on the wall above their computor monitor.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since my name was mentioned, I'll pop in. Normally I avoid these threads because I'm a bit jaded/strict when it comes to this stuff.

Release agents:

A number of things work. Pouring Kendal GT1 oil in a frying pan will keep eggs from sticking too, but is it the best option?

Shoe polish is a wax. It also must be applied by hand which means swirl marks are susceptible to being watermarked into the resin as it cures. To most it's of no concern. If it does bug you, then don't use it.

Wax in general works well and we use it on every bedding job where we need to. Mostly limited to the bedding studs, threads, masking lines. Anywhere I want it to release with the least amount of effort while not being concerned about surface finish.

Based on what I've read One Shot case lube has good results. I wouldn't use it because it seems to have a slime layer. I'd be worried about some of the lube materials somehow contaminating the epoxy. Maybe I'm being a dork for thinking that way, but again it was never designed for the application. Just because it works, it doesn't mean its a good choice.

I personally like a release agent that is sprayed on as it allows even, inclusion free coverage. I want it to flash to a dry film once the solvent/carrier evaporates. Because of this I use an aerosolized mold release. I've bedded close to a thousand guns with it and its never screwed me. I realize a guy at home might not want to pay $30/can, but its an excellent option for those who do/would.

Bedding compounds:

Key things to look for:

1. Long "open clamp time" Meaning your not rushed once its mixed.
2. High Shore Hardness. This is the graduate scale used for rubbers/plastics.
3. Iron free. If your using an epoxy that has steel, make sure its a nonferrous steel like stainless. Moisture has a habit of collecting between receiver/stock. If water gets in there and wicks into the skin layer of bedding it can start to cause rust. Just like on a car fender, the oxidation will grow and cause a blister. This breaks down the resin. Maybe its splitting hairs, but there's a very broad menu of products available so why chance it?
4. Tolerance to acids/alkalies. The solvents used to clean guns can be quite powerful. Your bedding should be immune to their effects.
5. Free of any nylon fillers. Nylon attracts water. It REALLY attracts water. Avoid, avoid, avoid!
6. High torsion/shear/compressive strength. Your gun twists and compresses as it fires. The amount is dependent upon a number of things, but it does happen. Resins need to be able to roll with the punches.
7. Viscosity is something else I look for. Peanut butter doesn't flow well-until you heat it up. This is where the long clamp time comes into play. I heat my bedding compound very carefully prior and while bedding the gun. This encourages a complete mix when putting resin/hardener together. It also insures the stuff wets the substrate (stock) completely. Once it cools back to room temperature it becomes alot stiffer so it tends to stay put. This means it's less likely to try and run out the back of the tang or flow out front below the recoil lug.

8. Practice, practice, practice. The only way to get better at bedding is to do it. You can read, read, read, and all you'll end up with is a hundred different opinions on how to do it right. The more YOU do it, the better you get at it. I realize we all want an instant PHD in this stuff. Nothing replaces experience.

Nothing.

I use a product designed for commercial boiler repair. It's about $40 for a 3oz tube of resin and hardener. Thus far its beaten everything else that I've tried. All of which and more have been mentioned here.

The important thing to remember is this. Once you find a product that performs to your expectation, STICK WITH IT. Don't make the mistake of trying to reinvent the wheel. The longer you use a single product, the more familiar you'll become with it. How it reacts to different temps in your shop. What it does on humid days, vs dry days. How it responds to being warmed up, etc.

On that last note know this. Devcon Titanium is great stuff. Tough as nails. It's also very expensive, finicky about ratios, and has a very SHORT working time. DO NOT attempt to warm this stuff up. IT WILL harden before you get the gun together and you'll have a huge mess. Keep it spread out paper thin on a glass plate so it doesn't build any heat through the chemical reaction. (this is how all epoxy resins cure btw)

DONT MIX ANY epoxy in a cup when bedding a gun. All this does is stir air into the stuff and its how you get air bubbles in your bedding. Mix it on a plate, keep it spread out paper thin, and be mindful of how you apply it in your stock. Glopping it in there with no concern causes air bubbles. This ruins the presentation we all want.

Again, the long clamp time is your friend.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Here's what our bedding jobs look like. Judge for yourself.

DSC_0019.jpg


103_0570.jpg


DSC_0007-1.jpg


103_0750.jpg


103_0753.jpg


C.</div></div>

Dixon....

Those pictures are truly a thing of beauty, but highly irritating at the same time. One day I'll be able to duplicate that
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

+1 for sticking with a product you like. Its much like very many other gunsmithing debates, do it the way you do it best with the products and tools you're most familiar and chances are you'll have positive results.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

WOW Chad, I was only joking on asking you as I thought it was common knowledge that your compound was a close kept trade secret for you. I really appreciate your well thought out responses and your advise has really hepled me with my own projects.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

I have oft times toyed with the idea of buying some pipe and simple fitting and cut out a channel in some wood to practice bedding without risking an actual rifle. I will be doing a savage when it comes back from being nitrited. I will just do the front from under the nut to the action screw, and in front of the second action screw. I will be doing the Devcon/Kiwi thing. Seems to be the best at home option.
 
Re: So what's the best bedding compound?

Chad, thanks for the very informative post, it is greatly appreciated.

Droid, I've thought about doing the same thing. I've even contemplated bedding a toy bolt action rifle I made for my son a few years ago just to practice.