Range Report So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

[Suasponte]

I have been reading thru Byran's new book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting". Been enjoying the read when I got to page 133 and began to grin. I have argued with one of my shooting buddy's regarding listed versus actual adjustment on your scope. He basically said since he had a high end scope that it would be on the money. Well in several shooting sessions he complained that he was hitting low in relation to what the Exbal solution was. I told him that his scope may not be getting a true 1/4 MOA. This continued for a couple months until I finally had him shoot the tall target test. Needless to say he found that at the higher range of his scope he was getting less the 1/4 value.

Seeing this in Bryan's book reinforces what I have been doing for years. I have drawn up a drop chart in CAD and use it to confirm all my long range scopes. I personally had one scope that just shit to bed above 20 MOA. I returned it to said MFG with my three charts that I had shot on different days, thus showing that the scope value was off. They ended up sending me a new scope of which was pretty much right on the money.

Do not assume that your scope is getting you there. It might be, and again???? If you want to make that first round connection long range you need to be confident in your scope!

Needless to say I have let my buddy borrow my book with a certain page marked! LOL!

Terry

Below is one for my Howa 223. You can see that at the high end its almost 1/8" low. This was confirmed on three test! 10 rounds at each value.

 

[shootist2004]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

doesnt look that bad to me......

 

[Suasponte]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

Your right, this scope which is a Mark 4 Leupold is pretty much on! At 100yds it is about 1 1/4 low from what the POA/POI is.

My buddys on the other hand was hitting 7/16" low at the 30MOA and 5/16" at the 20MOA.

Terry

 

[mgd45]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

How can you determine that it's low at the 30 MOA section when you have rounds that hit in the center? How do you know if your low shots weren't simply shooter error....breathing/trigger.....etc....?

 

[Megahoser]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can you determine that it's low at the 30 MOA section when you have rounds that hit in the center? How do you know if your low shots weren't simply shooter error....breathing/trigger.....etc....? </div></div>

I think I'd have to agree with MGD...unless you're shooting from some sort of a vice, then regardless of skill, the shooter is a big variable.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

You don't have to shoot to test the click value, and it is better to remove shooter skill and rfle/ammo accuracy from the scope test.

Just put the rifle on a vice or very solidly locked on sandbags and crank the turrets, then sight the target or simply a measuring tape at 50 or 100 yds/m (depending on how large the numbers are, and the magnification of the scope), and use the appropriate conversion factors:

1.0 MOA = 1.047" at 100 yds

1.0 mil = 36" at 100 yds, or 1 cm at 100 m

 

[Rob01]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

I have been doing it for years and test every scope I have whether mil or MOA. I always advise others to do the same. It's the reason I don't use a certain brand of high end scope anymore.

I shoot them up to 35-40 MOA with marks every 5 MOA and 10 mils with marks every 1 mil. Never had any troubles shooting them to find problems.

 

[mgd45]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

I'm not knocking this test at all. It's a great thing to do! All I was trying to reference was that he stated his scope is 1/8" low at the high end.....but he has several dead-center shots at the 30MOA section.......so.......is the scope really off by 1/8" or is it shooter error with that particular shot group.

Now if the entire group was below the center by 1/8" then I can see his point.....but there are dead-center shots there......so that kind of confused me. Not knocking the test at all.

 

[Jumper]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

He shot 10 rnd groups. That goes a long way in removing the possibility of shooter error. Unless he changed POA by 1/8th"...

 

[jasonahull]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

i wouldnt mind getting a couple of those charts. good work.

oh yeah, i had a scope that was .279 per click
made it seem in the nightforce program that i was shooting 130 grain 6.5's at lazerbeam speeds.

 

[mgd45]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He shot 10 rnd groups. That goes a long way in removing the possibility of shooter error. Unless he changed POA by 1/8th"... </div></div>

So how do you explain that several bullets landed dead center of the target? Were these the first few shots that were fired....were they the last few....? Could the low shots be an ammo issue...? Hell, I don't know?? All I know is it looks like there are several shots there that are dead center......so are the center shots somehow shooter error...? I guess, we'll never know.......

Besides 1/8" off at 1000 yards is what....1.50" or less in vertical drop? Shit, I'll take it! LOL!

 

[Jaeger308]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

Like Rob I do this test on new scopes, but here is how look at the data:

Example: 1.047”* 30 MOA=31.41” (true MOA) @ 100 YARDS exactly (not 101 yards or 98.5 yards)

Your groups shot, better be sub MOA but I still will measure the center of the group as best as I can then measure from the POA up to that centriod. So with the example above, let’s say I measure from POA to center of group 30.87”. I take that and turn it into a percentage (30.87/31.41=98.2%). Do this every 5 MOA up to 40 MOA, for me as long as I see 98% or better on ALL groups I am good to go, if you see the percentages changing as you go up, then your scope elevation may be slipping (NOT GOOD.) I also do this test several times over a course of days or weeks and average the results.
Now if you are upwards of 98% consistently, your real word dope will work for you as you field test your data compared to just taking program data and running with that.

Look all scopes are manmade, even the expensive ones, all thing have tolerance and all things break.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

1.0 MOA = 1.047" at 100 yds

<span style="font-weight: bold">1.0 mil = 36" at 100 yds, or 1 cm at 100 m</span> </div></div>

negative the 1.0 mil @ 100yds is 3.6 inches @ 1000yds its 36

 

[Long_Action]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

yeppers.... you would have a pretty hard time sighting in your rifle if 1 mil @ 100 yards was 36"

 

[McCrazy]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

1.0 MOA = 1.047" at 100 yds

<span style="font-weight: bold">1.0 mil = 36" at 100 yds, or 1 cm at 100 m</span> </div></div>

negative the 1.0 mil @ 100yds is 3.6 inches @ 1000yds its 36 </div></div>

I was about to correct this also but Deadly beat me to half of it. However 1 mil = 10 centimeters at 100 meters, not the 1 cm stated earlier.

 

[yotechsr]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

I would like Rob to elaborate as to which scopes he does not use any more.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

ttam sent you a pm

 

[jsanti13]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ttam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like Rob to elaborate as to which scopes he does not use any more. </div></div>

So would I.

As I'm consitantly upgrading my equipment I want to be careful what I spend my hard earned cash on.

 

[KSPony]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ttam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like Rob to elaborate as to which scopes he does not use any more. </div></div>

Well from the banner in his signature line I'm guessing it's not Nightforce

If you've read a number of optic posts here on the Hide I'm sure you can make an educated guess in "LEU" of an actual answer.

 

[Suasponte]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

I have several Mark 4's all of which adjust very well! I have noticed as with any scope I have that if you go past you intended adjustment (Say it's 14, I go to 15 then back down to 14) 1 MOA then back down its more consistant!

I do this on all my adjustments and have noticed that it helps.

Terry

 

[vinnieb]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ttam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like Rob to elaborate as to which scopes he does not use any more. </div></div>

+1 I would like to know also as I am going to be buying another scope and would like to avoid any known problems.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: So your scope is 1/4" click at 100yds. IS IT????

I did a similar track test on a Mark 4 to over 30 MOA determine whether it was 1/4 inch or Moa adjustments. Mine is definetely MOA and tracked perfect. Has held/returned to zero all year and will allow my rifle to print tiny groups when I do my part. Leupold/Nightforce/other brands has been debated to death. If you buy new the Mark 4 is about 2/3rds the price of NF and of course quite a bit less than the top brands. You can get a clean used NF for about the price of a new Mk4 and maybe have the best of both worlds if concerned about the Mk4 - but like I said mine has been awesome. Others apparently have had different experiences. There are complaints about every brand - even heard someone bashing US Optics the other day and now wont use anything but brand X etc etc so nothing is perfect I guess. NF seems to have less detractors than Leupy. Most important is to get the best you can afford and shoot. Scott at Liberty Optics is good to talk to about optics if you are in the market.