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[SOLVED] What to do? (F*ck me)

E

Elxx

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 23, 2008
208
0
Tucson AZ
#1
<span style="color: #FF0000">[SOLVED]</span>

Ok so here's the AZ law deal. The law <u>only</u> requires an Arizona <u>identification card</u> for long rifles, pistols and shotguns. If you have an address in AZ (I'm in an apt, but I'm sure a dorm would work as well) you just have to visit the MVD and apply for an ID. You do NOT need a drivers license, just an ID.

When you go to the MVD, make sure you have 2 forms of identification (mine was my california drivers license and a credit card with my name on it[note credit card had my california address on it, so location shouldn't matter]).

It cost $12 and will be given to you immediately after you are done. If they tell you they want to mail it or some bullshit, stop what you are doing and verify you just applied for an ID and not a drivers license. If its an ID but they want to mail it, stop them, get your money back and go to another MVD. You aren't suppose to wait.

Pro-tip, when buying from a gunshop, don't let them see your other ID/drivers license as they may not understand and refuse to let you fill out your forms.

------------ Original Story Below -----------

So I get a call from the gun shop down the street. They tell me my rifle came in. I hop in the car, punch it to 88(unfortunately, didn't go into the future or past) and get there an hour before closing. Sweet right? He brings out the rifle, .308 LH 700 sps just as I ordered. Put the bolt in, slide it a few times, looks perfect.

So he says, "K paperwork time. I need to see your license." So I pull out my California ID and he just looks at me. "Ha ha funny?" I must have looked pretty bewildered but then he says "...your serious?" I said ya whats not to be serious about. He said, I can't sell you this gun. You aren't an Arizona resident. I said "Well, why the fuck did you take my money 10 days ago?" He said he never bothered to check since I had an Arizona address.

So here is the deal. I can have the rifle if I change my residency (fuck that) or I can return it and get back my money less 15%. I'm so fuckin pissed. I left the store without either my money or the gun til I figure out what I want to do.

I think right now I'm pretty set on going in there, getting my money (all of it, because I can't see how its my fault they didn't check my residency) and just buying a rifle online and having someone transfer it or something.

So to the hide members...get my money and get it transfered? Is there something easier? I really am not about to change my residency just for a gd rifle.

Note: I know its probably my fault for not knowing about the residency issue...but seriously? 15%? Thats nearly $100.

Sorry for the language. If it offends, ill fix it. Otherwise, it adds to the story.
 
#2
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

You don't have to be a resident, he's wrong. Pistols yes, but rifles you can go to another state and buy them.

Now, maybe CA law prevents you from buying in another state. I'm sure federal law doesn't and I'd bet AZ law doesn't either.
 
#4
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Hes wrong federal law allows for purchases long guns in non residency states. unless Arizona state law specifically states they can not sell to out of state residents which I doubt is the case. Tell him to make few calls.
 
#6
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

You can usually, as a resident of a neighboring state, go into a gun store, gun show, etc. and purchase a long gun (like your 700SPS). I buy rifles/shotgun all the time in PA and KY even though I am a WV resident.

You need to check CA law and see if you can do it.

Of course...all of this is assuming that the dealer gives a $H!T what the law says. He may just not want to do the deal for you since you are an out-of-stater.
 
#7
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Thats called straw buying and don't do it. Is changing your residence from CA to AZ such a bad thing?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have one of your az resident buddies buy it. Tell him to go to the swap meet and sell it to you. </div></div>
 
#8
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Even if that is the case with CA law its irrelevant. Just sounds like he suffers from CA gun law derangement syndrome.
 
#9
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Here's my opinion on the matter and I'm not sure if it is what you want to hear.

It is definitely your responsibility to let the dealer know what your state of residency is if you are buying out of state. Why would the dealer even think to ask you what your state of residency is if you gave him an AZ address?

A 15% restock fee is not unreasonable. I assume that the rifle is not a normally stocked item for his shop. He has put his money out there to order and bring it in for you. Think of it this way, you buy a buddy a cool ACME widget and he says that he will pay you back in a week. Well the week comes and goes and your buddy says that he doesn't want the ACME widget and you are left holding the bag. In the business I am in it is not uncommon to see 20% to 30% restock fees.

My advice is to have the dealer ship it to a CA dealer and do the transfer there.

Good luck.
 
#11
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Contact the DOJ, see if you can get some printed out paperwork saying your able to purchase the firearm so long as it is a rifle. Paperwork with a DOJ letterhead "should" be enough to allow you to take that home. I say "should" tentatively because most dealers are horrible FUD slingers and usually don't know the complexities of CA gun laws, even the ones IN California. If he's that stubborn and uncooperative after that, then get your money back and take your business elsewhere.
 
#12
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I worked in a gun store and you can buy a long gun across the state line. it is just something that the gun store does not want to do I am not sure why it is not illegal. good luck hope it works out for you
 
#13
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Might I inquire as to why you want to maintain your CA residency if you are living in another state? I recently changed my state of residency from CA to FL so I don't have to pay income taxes to a state I have no intention of living in anytime soon or possibly ever again.

As for buying guns it isn't an issue for me but that is just military exception.
 
#14
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

4473 is a federal document, and as long as you are not a "prohibited person" you should be able to purchase. AZ has no registering of firearms, licensing of owners, permitting to carry (long guns)or purchase permits required.
If you are a US citizen and pass the 4473 call-in you should be good to go.
Unless the guy at the counter is the owner, ask to talk to the owner. Then again, the store still has a right to refuse service to anyone, and may have a hard on for Cali folks.
 
#17
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I want to keep my california residency because I get a lot of benefits from my dad. I'm 21 and in AZ for college =/

I'm not bringing the rifle out of AZ, I'd sell it when I'm done here. That or just stay here...but for now I don't think I'd even consider residency.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4473 is a federal document, and as long as you are not a "prohibited person" you should be able to purchase. AZ has no registering of firearms, licensing of owners, permitting to carry (long guns)or purchase permits required.
If you are a US citizen and pass the 4473 call-in you should be good to go.
Unless the guy at the counter is the owner, ask to talk to the owner. Then again, the store still has a right to refuse service to anyone, and may have a hard on for Cali folks. </div></div>

I'll have to try that. I'm definitely NOT a prohibited person.

Whats a DOJ?
 
#19
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I'm an Iowa resident and the rifle I just bought on gunbroker was in Illinois.

The only way I could go pick it up was if I bought a non-resident (Illinois) hunting license.

A license was going to cost around $30 plus a six hour round trip drive so I just paid the $35 shipping to Iowa and $25 FFl transfer fee at a local gun shop.

I don't know AZ or CA law, but it might be an option.
 
#20
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

OK, late to the party, but you guys are feeding dis-information to this guy. In AZ, the dealer CAN NOT sell a long gun to a resident of California. Long gun or not. This is a federal law. It has to do with the waiting period in California. I can sell a long gun in Montana to a resident of another state AS LONG AS THE STATE OF RESIDENCY DOES NOT HAVE A WAITING PERIOD. Now, if AZ had the exact same waiting period as CA, then the transfer could take place, but if the state of residency has stricter waiting period restrictions, then the transfer CAN NOT take place.

Best answer in this situation is to get your money back and buy one in CA. The real best answer is to change residency, which happens automatically after living outside of CA for a certain amount of time without you wanting it to or not. If you still wnat to maintain residency in CA, then you must have a home there? If so, why not either have this guy ship the gun to CA or have a dealer in CA order one in for you?

Dave
 
#21
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

It is the dealer's responsibility to ask for a driver's license upon ordering a firearm. Dealers provide a receipt with a section just for driver's license# and pistol permit#. This is to be filled out and both parties provided with a copy of the transaction and monies involved. This is the same paperwork that states policies of restocking fees and refunds along with the written agreement to purchase. If you did not receive this paperwork upon ordering the firearm then the dealer is at fault.

It is also the customer's responsibility to know that if your legal identification doesn't match the info you are providing it will raise a red flag to any dealer as well as the NICS operator should the dealer call it in anyway.

If it means that much to you to keep the CA license, have it shipped to an FFL there and pay the transfer fee.
 
#23
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I dont think the neighboring law is valid anymore. I live in Michigan and go to Camp Perry in Ohio all the time. I have bought alot of guns there and this year if I bought anything I had to have it shipped to my dealer in Michigan. I think the ATF has changed the ruling. Contact the ATF. If it were me I would of told the guy up front to avoid the hassle of what you are going thru now.

Rich
 
#25
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Ah shit ok thanks everyone for the info. I'm going back to get my money.

This is a serious drag.

I would like to change residency but with the reasons I stated a few posts above, it just isn't worth it for me.
 
#28
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drmarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad you don't have friends or family that are residents of AZ that would give you a SPS as a birthday gift or something........ </div></div>

Just looked up the gifting idea. I'm of different residency. So I don't wanna get raped by the law...otherwise this upcoming 2yr anniversary with my girlfriend would have been amazing.

I'm trying to get a hold of the old man to see if I can change residency. I'll just change back when/if I move back.
 
#30
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I have a hard time believing that they can't flip a .308 LH 700.

If this were a custom weird caliber or something, I could understand why they would charge a "restock" fee.

Frankly,I think it's on them that they didn't insure you would be eligible to purchase. That clause, I'm sure, is for people that just decide not to pay.
 
#31
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Just change your residency man......I know I would do it the second I can move to a gun friendly state.

Also, by changing the residency, you get the chance to apply for a suppressor in the future if you want to. How sweet is that!!

Dyl..
 
#32
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Yep, I think Dave's right. The last rifle I bought was in MN. at a Gander Mountain and I'm an OK resident. I first called about it and the guy told me they could sell only to neighboring states. Did'nt sound right to me so I went in a couple days later and talked to someone who had been there a while. He told me that if OK didn't prohibit the sale than all was ok. OK has some of the best gun laws in the country so needless to say I brought the rifle home. If your state of residency dos'nt prohibit it then you can buy it, at least thats my experience. Its amazing our gun laws are so complicated that no one completely understands what is legal and what is not.

okie
 
#33
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Also another Kalifornia "FU" is drive a car, truck, or MH into Kalifornia with a Kalifornia drives license and another states plates with your residence on it and name and they will screw you again. Does not matter according to a CHP I talked to if you have 2 homes.
 
#34
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

I beleive the problem here is residence issue. On the 4473 you must have your current address listed which is as I understand it as Arizona but your driver's license states that your residence is in California that's the conflict, that and with CA having the 10 day waiting period states cant sell directly to CA resident.
It will cost you shipping and possibly charge from the FFL dealer to simply ship it to a California FFL dealer, then you can pick it up after the 10 day waiting period. It will be cheaper than paying the re-stocking charge. Consider it a lesson learned.

Dont feel like the lone ranger, among the all of the states there are several states that cant sell to other states too and that includes pistols, revolver and long guns. It's federal law and an dealer doesnt want to do something stupid to lose his FFL licence.

I suggest you go back to the dealer with humbleness and ask him to explain some of the laws involved, He is in the business of selling firearms and wants to do so but does have laws and regulations to follow.
 
#35
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Holy shit I have an idea!!! So i bought this gun from http://www.2ndamendmentsports.com/

They HAVE A STORE IN CA!!! Wouldnt they be able to rearrange the purchase info to the california store and then let me pay an FFL transfer to the AZ store?!!?!? It would be like I bought it from them in california and had it sent over!

I'm calling tomorrow morning. If that works, I'm fucking amazing. That or I got the idea from a post above and I was too worked up about it to acknowledge it.

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">So I'm not 100% sure how I could do the FFL transfer stuff. Does it physically have to be sent to Cali then back to AZ? And I'd have to pay for 2 different transfers? If so, FML im getting my money back.</span>
 
#36
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, late to the party, but you guys are feeding dis-information to this guy. In AZ, the dealer CAN NOT sell a long gun to a resident of California. Long gun or not. This is a federal law. It has to do with the waiting period in California. I can sell a long gun in Montana to a resident of another state AS LONG AS THE STATE OF RESIDENCY DOES NOT HAVE A WAITING PERIOD. Now, if AZ had the exact same waiting period as CA, then the transfer could take place, but if the state of residency has stricter waiting period restrictions, then the transfer CAN NOT take place.

Best answer in this situation is to get your money back and buy one in CA. The real best answer is to change residency, which happens automatically after living outside of CA for a certain amount of time without you wanting it to or not. If you still wnat to maintain residency in CA, then you must have a home there? If so, why not either have this guy ship the gun to CA or have a dealer in CA order one in for you?

Dave </div></div>

This is correct if your state of residence has a more stringent purchasing process then the state you intend to by from the firearm must be transferred to your state.It also is not the dealers obligation to verify your information prior to you doing the 4473 process.
 
#37
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

If he still refuses to sell it to you, ask him to split the 15% fee with ya.

Seems like ya both screwt the pooch. (no offense, man)

Or have him transfer it to a dealer in CA if ya really want it bad.
 
#38
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy shit I have an idea!!! So i bought this gun from http://www.2ndamendmentsports.com/

They HAVE A STORE IN CA!!! Wouldnt they be able to rearrange the purchase info to the california store and then let me pay an FFL transfer to the AZ store?!!?!? It would be like I bought it from them in california and had it sent over!

I'm calling tomorrow morning. If that works, I'm fucking amazing. That or I got the idea from a post above and I was too worked up about it to acknowledge it.

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">So I'm not 100% sure how I could do the FFL transfer stuff. Does it physically have to be sent to Cali then back to AZ? And I'd have to pay for 2 different transfers? If so, FML im getting my money back.</span> </div></div>

You still have to be in CA to make the purchase. You are technically a CA resident so those are the rules you must follow.
 
#42
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

If you are in AZ for more than 10 days you should get a AZDL
wink.gif
 
#43
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Don't like putting up with it but if I abandon ship this disease will just spread. I am like chemo for Kalifornia. We may win we may loose but we gotta fight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saleen308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geeez....how do you gun lovers in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia tolerate these bull$hit laws</div></div>
 
#44
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't like putting up with it but if I abandon ship this disease will just spread. I am like chemo for Kalifornia. We may win we may loose but we gotta fight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saleen308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geeez....how do you gun lovers in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia tolerate these bull$hit laws</div></div> </div></div>

I can appreciate that but, man you all sure take a beating unlike those of us in gun friendly states.

Well...fight the good fight brother.
 
#45
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Just a heads up. If your buddy, an AZ resident "helps" you out--the first purchase is a "straw" purchase as said above. Then, when he gives it to you, that would be a second illegal transfer as private transfers are only legal between residents of the same state.
 
#46
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

If you are Military then all you need is a copy of your orders that sent you to Tucson and you can purchase the rifle as a resident. I am from Ca and when I was stationed in Tucson I bought two handguns and a rifle with no problems even with my Ca DL.
 
#48
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are in AZ for more than 10 days you should get a AZDL
wink.gif
</div></div>

hint nint, nudge nudge, say no more eh?
 
#49
Re: What to do? (F*ck me)

Go get an AZ ID card. Nothing says you need to use a DL to make a gun transaction.

You won't be able to get an AZ DL and keep the CA DL, so just get an AZ ID card.
 
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