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Some Advise Please, AR10/SR25 platform questions

Rprecision

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 9, 2011
802
25
Progressive Hell, CO
I have been contemplating a .308 Cal AR platform. There seems to be three basic routes to this:

1. Build to exact specs wanted (I.E. Maten, Etc)

2. Buy off the rack gun, modify to meet needs accuracy / otherwise (DPMS,R25, LMT, Armalight, Etc.)

3. Buy custom (Larue, GAP, Seekins,JP, Knight, ETC)

I am looking for as lightweight as possible, 16-18" 1/10, capable of 1 MOA or less, reliable, function suppressed, budget dependent on options

I know there are a lot of folks who have been down this road, have learned the best way to approach it and most important the best way not to.

I have built a number of Ar-15's but this would be the first 10.

What are some things I should consider or mistakes commonly made ?

Thanks
 
I was down that road back in December and decided to go with a build vs buying one of the rack. Custom rifles from larue, JP or GAP wasn't an option since I didn't have enough time to get one before 01/2014 (rifle registration BS in CA)

I picked up a Mega Maten MKM set (lower/upper/rail). So far I'm in it for about $2300 not including the scope.

Mega Maten MKM
Mega arms18" barrel
JP Comp
Syrac adjustable gas block
DPMS BCG
Geissele SSA-E
MAGPUL PRS stock
MAGPUL MIAD grip
Battle Arms ambi selector
DPMS Buffer/spring

At the time the local shop had a Basic DPMS LR308 which would of cost me about just under $1700 OTD ... After upgrading parts for the DPMS it would of cost me more then $2300




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It's difficult to build at a significant price savings compared to buying premium right off the bat. Everything in large frame costs 50-100% more than with an AR15, and if you want to resell you take a serious hit with pieced together rigs versus from a known builder. I'm finishing up building two, well over $2k into each, and I'm only hoping they shoot somewhat close to what a GAP-10 can put downrange at a comparable investment. Even receiver blocks were expensive.

I build all my AR15s, but I'll never build a large frame again.
 
I'm personally a believer in buying factory then changing to meet your needs. This is normally the most time efficient way to do it and you have something to shoot while you decide what to change and save up the $$. Personally I started out with the LMT and loved everything about it except the weight and balance so sold it. Just picked up a M&P-10 Magpul Edition and very happy with it so far. I was concerned with the lighter barrel heating up and throwing shots but so far so good and less than 1moa with FGMM 175s. Plus, I have $500 less in the rifle, trigger, buttstock and muzzlebrake than I did in just the LMT rifle.
 
It really all comes down to what, specifically, you want at the end of the day.

For a 16-18", lightweight large-frame AR rifle setup like it seems you want it and capable of MOA or better accuracy, the factory options are fairly slim.

One excellent option that comes to mind off the bat is the Armalite AR-10T Carbine (16" SS match barrel threaded 5/8x24, Aluminum FF tube, 2-stage NM trigger, etc., etc. guaranteed for MOA accuracy, but all will out-perform their accuracy guarantees with good ammo and a competent shooter). The 10T Carbines as shipped from the factory weigh right about 8.75lbs with an empty mag and can generally be outfitted for <10lbs with a light optic/mount/etc. They can generally be found for ~$1600 or so and are one of the best bangs for the buck across the industry. The downside to the Armalite, unless you can find one of the extremely limited production "A" models that accept DPMS-pattern mags, is that you are limited to Armalite factory steel mags in 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 round models or converting M1A mags. Not a big deal, but many people want DPMS-compatibility for mags because they want to run PMAGs. I have owned a couple AR-10T Carbines over the years in various configs as offered by Armalite (I still have one that I've tweaked a bit). They are boringly accurate rifles right out of the box that are sub-MOA capable with match ammo and quality reloads.

About the only "upgrade" you might want off the bat would be an adjustable gas block (~$100 for an SLR or Syrac...I prefer the SLR design) so that you can tune the rifle for both suppressed and non-suppressed fire as you stated you'd be running it, as well as any swaps for stock/grip/etc. you might deem necessary. The 10TC comes equipped with a basic A2 buttstock and A2 grip which helps with the weight, but they aren't always the best or most preferred options depending on your end game. Even still...with the basic AR-10TC and an adjustable block, you are only into the rifle for ~$1750 or less.

As for building what you want...it cuts both ways in terms of costs, etc. You can get a decent receiver set for ~$500 or so (depending on make/model/etc.). Tack on another ~$400 for a match barrel, ~$275 for a BCG, ~$200 for a trigger, ~$75 for a LPK, ~$100 for an adj gas block and you are ~$1550 give or take into a rifle without stock/hardware, grip, handguard/FF tube, muzzle device, etc. It can be done on the cheap, but to really get the most out of it in terms of accuracy and performance, you can easily get yourself into more money than a factory rifle will run you plus upgrades, but you'll have precisely what you want at the end of the day. It really comes down to what specifically you want to put into it, the options you desire, etc. as to whether the cost/benefit analysis comes out in your favor or not.

Finally, as to the custom built route...here you get to have your cake and eat it to, but you also have to PAY for it. A GAP-10 or JP will run you at least ~$3k (or more depending on options/configuration), but you'll have one of the finest semi-auto rifles made at present, made exactly how you want it, and you'll have a rifle capable of printing into the 1/2MOA range (give or take) depending on your abilities. A GAP-10, at least if you buy new from GAP, will cost you also in terms of wait time because you aren't getting into one anytime soon. They pop up on the Hide for sale from time to time, but by doing that, you may or may not get what you want and may have to settle for some other config which sort of defeats the point to going custom. JP can generally get rifles in their "Ready Rifle" program out the door in fairly short order, but again, will limit your options/specs somewhat, and their true customs for complete rifles will likely run you at least 2 months and likely 4-5 for completion (they have a schedule of production with time estimates on their site that is generally fairly accurate...wait will be dependent on what specifically you order, parts availability once your order queues up, etc.).

Anyway...just some food for thought.
 
Build / buy - while you can futz around with the weight of handguards, stocks, and doodads the biggest weight savings is going to come from re profiling a barrel. In order to have first class accuracy the blank, chamberinig, threading, re-pro machining = your single greatest expense; likely in the range of $800 - $1,000 (+).

I'd pick a mag pattern, a chamber spec, a port size, and then start looking for a primo barrel and a smith to do the work.
 
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It really all comes down to what, specifically, you want at the end of the day.

For a 16-18", lightweight large-frame AR rifle setup like it seems you want it and capable of MOA or better accuracy, the factory options are fairly slim.

One excellent option that comes to mind off the bat is the Armalite AR-10T Carbine (16" SS match barrel threaded 5/8x24, Aluminum FF tube, 2-stage NM trigger, etc., etc. guaranteed for MOA accuracy, but all will out-perform their accuracy guarantees with good ammo and a competent shooter).

A factory AR-10T Carbine can be customized fairly easily -- this is just one example (there are a bunch of options out there, and more coming from manufacturers every day):

w053cx.jpg


Your best bet for precision (as with a bolt gun) is to start with a quality barrel blank, preferably done by a custom gun maker familiar with self-loading AR rifles.
 
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It's difficult to build at a significant price savings compared to buying premium right off the bat. Everything in large frame costs 50-100% more than with an AR15, and if you want to resell you take a serious hit with pieced together rigs versus from a known builder. I'm finishing up building two, well over $2k into each, and I'm only hoping they shoot somewhat close to what a GAP-10 can put downrange at a comparable investment. Even receiver blocks were expensive.

I build all my AR15s, but I'll never build a large frame again.

When you have quality parts in your build it's always better to part it out. I had a complete AR for sale and I was going to take a $500 loss on. I was on the market for a month with no takers. I parted out the rifle and got the money I was asking for, only I got to keep my lower.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I have been contemplating a .308 Cal AR platform. There seems to be three basic routes to this:

1. Build to exact specs wanted (I.E. Maten, Etc)

2. Buy off the rack gun, modify to meet needs accuracy / otherwise (DPMS,R25, LMT, Armalight, Etc.)

3. Buy custom (Larue, GAP, Seekins,JP, Knight, ETC)

I am looking for as lightweight as possible, 16-18" 1/10, capable of 1 MOA or less, reliable, function suppressed, budget dependent on options

I know there are a lot of folks who have been down this road, have learned the best way to approach it and most important the best way not to.

I have built a number of Ar-15's but this would be the first 10.

What are some things I should consider or mistakes commonly made ?

Thanks

The new DPMS G2 Recon is hard to beat for what you are looking for. People are getting great results on accuracy and with the new redesign it's very light.