Some guns just never go away

[kraigWY]

US Model 1917 is still being use by the Sirius Patrol), a unique elite Danish navy unit that conducts long-range reconnaissance patrolling, and enforces Danish sovereignty in the Arctic wilderness of Northern and Eastern Greenland.

The weapons carried also reflect the harsh conditions. Among the equipment used by the Sirius Sledge Patrol is the M1917 Enfield bolt-action rifle chambered in .30-06 Springfield, known in Danish service as the Gevær M/53.

Slædepatruljen Sirius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hrfunk]

How cool is that. The old warrior is still in service.

HRF

 

[MTFalconer]

Just by the way, those guys are some TOUGH SOBs as well. That is not a detail for the faint of heart.

 

[kraigWY]

those guys are some TOUGH SOBs as well. That is not a detail for the faint of heart

No kidding.

In my younger years with the Alaska NG I made a few 100 mile ski trips north of the Arctic Circle, they lasted about 10 days, it was fun then when I was younger, but I got tired just reading the qualifications and training of those Den's.

Not sure I would want to spend dern near a whole year on a ski trip.

 

[OLD18C]

And I thought the Biathlon was hard when I trained up and went to the Nationals. The longest time I spent on Skis and pulling Ahkios was two weeks with M-16s. They have a very hard to learn skill set.

 

[classicshooter]

Interesting. What is further interesting, I tell people the Glock 20, in 10mm would be my choice of pistol in Alaska or like environment.

 

[MLC]

A very interesting history of some tough SOB's.
Jeff Cooper would approve.

 

[Diablo]

Kraig,

What has been your experience with the "average" accuracy of the 1917?

The rear sight shroud and bolt handle aren't pretty, but I've shot a couple over the years that shot as well (or better) than any 03.

 

[samnev]

Kraig,

What has been your experience with the "average" accuracy of the 1917?

The rear sight shroud and bolt handle aren't pretty, but I've shot a couple over the years that shot as well (or better) than any 03.

About 2" 5 shot 100 yard groups sometime less with hand loads. But it's hard for me to shoot iron sights with my astigmatism.

 

[kraigWY]

Most M1917s are pretty damn accurate. Even using M2 ball.

The caveat is they are accurate in slow fire. They suck in rapid fire. The "cocking on closing" sucks big time. I was always taught to never take the rifle out of the shoulder when operating the bolt. That's easy on the M1903/M1903a3, easier yet on the Krag. Almost impossible on the M1917. If I try to keep it in my shoulder I end up wacking the sight. In the OK City CMP games a couple times I flipped the sight down, preventing me to being able to close the bolt, dropping the rifle out of the shoulder takes me out of position, In trying to speeding up to I came down on the wrong target (cross fired) and still ended up saving a round.

I love the M1917, its accurate, but just not a rapid fire rifle. Never again will I use this rifle in a match where there is a rapid fire stage. In the (other) Vintage Military rifles I'll shoot my Krag, Its plenty accurate enough and I've never seen a smoother bolt action military rifle. In the CMP GSM games, you start standing, rifle loaded, and bolt to the rear (bolt guns). When the targets come up, you drop in position, empty the magazine, reload and fire the remaining rounds to get 10 shots off. With the Krag you can start with 6 rounds in the rifle and only have to throw 4 more in the mag hoper. You have enough time because you don't have to fight the bolt, nor do you have to take the rifle out of your shoulder.

 

[malaga2]

Why did the military drop this in favor of the 03' ?

 

[kraigWY]

Frankly the M1903 is a much better rifle. It's more accurate, its faster and easier to use. And lighter.

 

[-Jake-]

The Mosin Nagant sniper is still in use too. I saw a video of the Syrian conflict and a dude was using one.

 

[kraigWY]

I've seen pictures of the Garand in the same conflict.

I just got back from the Oklahoma City CMP Vintage Rifle Matches..................those old work horses still work and work quite well.

 

[Walsh]

How is the 03 more accurate, faster, and easier to use?

 

[kraigWY]

How is the 03 more accurate, faster, and easier to use?

The '03 action is simple a more accurate action in which to build a rifle. That's why when the 03 action was used on target rifles, that's why the 03 action was used to make the Mann Accuracy Devices ( used by the military to test ammo, not just the '06, but the 7.62, the M1 Carbine Round, the 45 ACP, and 22 hornet "to name a few".

It was the choice of civilian shooters for making custom rifles for target shooting and hunting.

It is much faster in rapid fire, being the rifle cocks on opening (as to cock on closing the M1917 uses), the action is smother making it better to use. One should never have to take the rifle out of the shoulder to operate the bolt, its easy with the '03, near impossible with the M1917.

The '03 sights are adjustable for windage, (again, not the case in the M1917). The sights are accurate and positive using the ammo the gun was designed for.

Just look at the scores fired in the CMP GSM matches, and compare the scores fired in the Springfield Match with those in the (other) Military Match where the M1917 is used. This is why the Springfield was given its own match. The cut off scores for the awards are higher for the Springfield then the Military Match, even higher then the cut off scores for the Garand.

To best answer your question I like to have people shoot a practice match (Course A, 10 rounds Prone SF, 10 rounds Prone RF (80 seconds, with a reload required) and 10 rounds slow fire. Shoot the course twice, once with the Springfield, once with the M1917. This will show rather then explain why the Springfield is superior.

Not saying the M1917 isn't accurate, it is, extremely so, if you don't have rapid fire, and there is no need to adjust for windage.

 

[Walsh]

Hmm, never knew the Enfield was complicated, never seen one though.

Is not the SMLE not the fastest, and it cocks on close?

 

[itwillis]

Hmm, never knew the Enfield was complicated, never seen one though.

Is not the SMLE not the fastest, and it cocks on close?

Its a lighter bolt. The M1917 is like a full on cock-on-close Mauser 98 and you have to slam the bolt home before you rotate it down using your own hand power to compress the majority of the firing pin spring. The SMLE is like the mini-me version.

 

[Walsh]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clearing that up.