Sorry Klinger
- Thread starter pmclaine
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Listening to the talking heads on the radio they are wondering why there cant be some accommodation.
I think that would work if said tranny did his/her trannying in the privacy of their home.
It becomes a problem when the military becomes a Monty Python skit
I think that would work if said tranny did his/her trannying in the privacy of their home.
It becomes a problem when the military becomes a Monty Python skit
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I think that if that's their method, they and the Services are better off apart.
I got no real issues with gender differences. I say, if its a good thing, time will prove it so. Same if it's not.
Saying nonono at the start is probably a demonstration of blind fear.
Would I serve in such conditions/ Moot question, nobody is ever going to allow me to rejoin at my age, in my health condition.
As for today's service people, they are a completely different generation and it will be their preferences and biases which will drive whatever resolution comes out of this.
When upper management issues dicta, they forget that it's exactly the same as the mice voting to bell the cat. They control nothing; it's the subjects of their dicta who actually accomplish anything.
We have gotten into a faulty mindset in this current society; where we base fundamental conclusions on the bases of bias and conjecture. In essence, we are afraid to try things on the basis of what might result.
If we do this, that will happen.
Really?
I suggest that fictions like "Minority Report" at least address the concept, however well they might manage to do it at all. One size fits damned near nobody.
Greg
I got no real issues with gender differences. I say, if its a good thing, time will prove it so. Same if it's not.
Saying nonono at the start is probably a demonstration of blind fear.
Would I serve in such conditions/ Moot question, nobody is ever going to allow me to rejoin at my age, in my health condition.
As for today's service people, they are a completely different generation and it will be their preferences and biases which will drive whatever resolution comes out of this.
When upper management issues dicta, they forget that it's exactly the same as the mice voting to bell the cat. They control nothing; it's the subjects of their dicta who actually accomplish anything.
We have gotten into a faulty mindset in this current society; where we base fundamental conclusions on the bases of bias and conjecture. In essence, we are afraid to try things on the basis of what might result.
If we do this, that will happen.
Really?
I suggest that fictions like "Minority Report" at least address the concept, however well they might manage to do it at all. One size fits damned near nobody.
Greg
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I guess we are fortunate we can debate these trivial matters.
Should situations arise that we are in an existential conflict I would hope that what is determined to be important will quickly be trimmed to the bone to focus on only that which is lethal without regard to whether or not someone's "feelings" are hurt.
Unfortunately our current "limited" wars still result in deaths and I hate to think some of those deaths may be attributed to focusing on social engineering rather than combat efficiency.
Should situations arise that we are in an existential conflict I would hope that what is determined to be important will quickly be trimmed to the bone to focus on only that which is lethal without regard to whether or not someone's "feelings" are hurt.
Unfortunately our current "limited" wars still result in deaths and I hate to think some of those deaths may be attributed to focusing on social engineering rather than combat efficiency.
Boiled down, the crossovers were leveraging Sam to pay for their re-plumbing. Take it elsewhere. Maybe try ISIS. I hear they are loosening up.
"Hearts and Minds" belongs in the diplomatic arena. Nation Building belongs..., probably nowhere...
We have spent since about 1960 trying to misuse our military as an agent of social change. This is all just so absolutely arrogant, illogical, and downright wrong minded as to be an exercise in utter futility.
We fight wars, sorta, without even trying to achieve any sort of palpable victory. We are programmed toward dissatisfaction. The military has been directed to destroy itself far more efficiently than any enemy of our nation. The past 50 years of American military history has been an object demonstration of a complete, abject failure of leadership imagination. Great soldiers are appointed and then bent to supervise the neutering of a huge and powerful war machine.
And none of this honors the tens of thousands of fine patriots we have managed to kill and maim in the process. Casualties are an unfortunately normal part of military engagement. But when the reasons underling these losses are so fucked up, I get heated.
How does this bear upon the Klinger Question? Only peripherally; but the Klinger Question as a pure and simple example of the misplaced priorities underlying our American Military Quandry..
Is our military molded to destroy America's enemies, or America's underlying principles? I say to you that this question is the one we need to answer before any others.
Greg
PS After reviewing Sandwarrior's excellent post which mine crossed; the public does not understand what gets done and why it gets done the way it does. This, I blame squarely on the media and the political leadership, so obviously paired in a ruinously destructive lock step.
We have spent since about 1960 trying to misuse our military as an agent of social change. This is all just so absolutely arrogant, illogical, and downright wrong minded as to be an exercise in utter futility.
We fight wars, sorta, without even trying to achieve any sort of palpable victory. We are programmed toward dissatisfaction. The military has been directed to destroy itself far more efficiently than any enemy of our nation. The past 50 years of American military history has been an object demonstration of a complete, abject failure of leadership imagination. Great soldiers are appointed and then bent to supervise the neutering of a huge and powerful war machine.
And none of this honors the tens of thousands of fine patriots we have managed to kill and maim in the process. Casualties are an unfortunately normal part of military engagement. But when the reasons underling these losses are so fucked up, I get heated.
How does this bear upon the Klinger Question? Only peripherally; but the Klinger Question as a pure and simple example of the misplaced priorities underlying our American Military Quandry..
Is our military molded to destroy America's enemies, or America's underlying principles? I say to you that this question is the one we need to answer before any others.
Greg
PS After reviewing Sandwarrior's excellent post which mine crossed; the public does not understand what gets done and why it gets done the way it does. This, I blame squarely on the media and the political leadership, so obviously paired in a ruinously destructive lock step.
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Some may call it paranoia, but, this is why I stay ready to fight if needed. No matter how incapable I am now. The distractions of the military now have got to be an issue with people focusing and trusting to do their jobs.
This stupid bullshit circus of distractions was not allowed when I was in. Gay, transvestite, and to a large part even openly having sex out of wedlock was not tolerated in the military. It went on all the time, but not where it hit the front page. You can't be doing this shit out in the open. Push the envelope and you were out. I saw at least a dozen cases of hetero-removal from the Army for that. Yet, I also know everyone was after it, and most were doing it. How high profile it got was what got them in trouble.
What the public doesn't understand about all this "unfairness" is we have a job to do. If individuals want to go sticking their bullshit in everybody's faces, then it's a distraction and problem to accomplishing the military mission. It really don't matter if you're gay or tranny, or whatever, just don't make it an attention getter, where you become the focus instead of the mission. Individualism isn't cohesive to teamwork.
I agree, this is bullshit. If the military got you as a man or a woman, that's what you are. That's the contract you signed when you went in. If you want to change that, then you aren't honoring your part of the contract. Get out and make the change yourself.
This stupid bullshit circus of distractions was not allowed when I was in. Gay, transvestite, and to a large part even openly having sex out of wedlock was not tolerated in the military. It went on all the time, but not where it hit the front page. You can't be doing this shit out in the open. Push the envelope and you were out. I saw at least a dozen cases of hetero-removal from the Army for that. Yet, I also know everyone was after it, and most were doing it. How high profile it got was what got them in trouble.
What the public doesn't understand about all this "unfairness" is we have a job to do. If individuals want to go sticking their bullshit in everybody's faces, then it's a distraction and problem to accomplishing the military mission. It really don't matter if you're gay or tranny, or whatever, just don't make it an attention getter, where you become the focus instead of the mission. Individualism isn't cohesive to teamwork.
I agree, this is bullshit. If the military got you as a man or a woman, that's what you are. That's the contract you signed when you went in. If you want to change that, then you aren't honoring your part of the contract. Get out and make the change yourself.
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The right time, the right moment. Just damn near blew Coffeeve all over the place gawd dammit.
Couple things about the conversation that will never be carried by the media, nor are they discussed in frank, practical terms in polite society:
- The Left dogmatically pursues Cloward-Piven and it is impossible not to see the entire LBGT / MIL thing for what it really is - the camels nose under the tent in a play to re-write wholesale legal provisions, which ultimately lead to the expansion of Government; and influence public perception via the largest and most powerful indoctrinating entity within Government.
- Secondly, It'd be interesting to know if the associated and probable overhead variance for Trannys was considered?
* Cost of emotional counseling
* Cost of surgery and or medications associated with gender re-assignment
* Cost of downtime due to absence
* Cost of Compliance with current and probable future Federal Law
* Cost of long term liabilities
The MIL has one job. Go beat some ass. Anything not in the furtherance of that goal should be questioned on merit. Like most things, b/c it is incremental - people aren't alarmed. America needs to pull its head out of its ass, ask themselves what is behind all of this bullshit.
To be clear, I get that every once in a great while an individual can be born with a few too many X's or Y's, or Androgyne / Gender Confusion. I am also all for Equal Rights. However, the actions of the Left have burned the collective integrity card of ALL that are associated with them. If LBGT wants my support - the very first thing they need to do is swear off, disavow, cut ties, and cut and funding to and from all Leftists. That is how you prove you are genuine.
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There are about 250 troops who are undergoing gender reassignment, or have been approved to formally change their genders within the Pentagon’s personnel system, according to the Military Times.
At about $20K per false vagina that's no small change (no pun intended).
Unsure what it costs to build a penis. Im sure someone on here can enlighten us though. Ive built my own junk up through the acquisition of motorcycles and rifles neither which are cheap and I assume surgery would likewise be expensive but only a one time cost as opposed to my method of continually needing to compensate for natures cruelty.
Add in the cost of the two year psyche/med workup than recovery basically one four year enlistment will be entirely tied up on junk reassignment.
Any guess on how many will reup after that?
what is the motivation serving your country or serving yourself?
At about $20K per false vagina that's no small change (no pun intended).
Unsure what it costs to build a penis. Im sure someone on here can enlighten us though. Ive built my own junk up through the acquisition of motorcycles and rifles neither which are cheap and I assume surgery would likewise be expensive but only a one time cost as opposed to my method of continually needing to compensate for natures cruelty.
Add in the cost of the two year psyche/med workup than recovery basically one four year enlistment will be entirely tied up on junk reassignment.
Any guess on how many will reup after that?
what is the motivation serving your country or serving yourself?
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This is what I've been wondering and no one else has addressed. How many people who ID as transgender might join the military for the sole purpose of having their surgery paid for? All we hear about from the left is how much we "lose" and how much less safe we are if we ban them from service. But, what if this "service" is only a ploy to get free sex-change operations...because the opportunity is certainly there?
Thats not really fair. While the Spartans did defeat the Persians at Thermopolaye, it was the Athenian navy which put the final blow to them. The SPARTANS were valiant warriors. the Athenians builders and philosophers. Neither alone is worth much.
But you are correct in that the ancient Greek soldier is not the best choice to illustrate in this instance.
Yeah, no one wants to go full blown Sparta. Tossing babies off a cliff because they look a little sickly is harsh.
You are observant in your knowledge of what Athens brought to the benefits of the city/states deciding to see themselves as a nation rather than individuals.
Right now we have too many philosophers wanting to sit around circle jerking in the town hall when we need to have a little bit of laconian wisdom to cut to the chase and bring some spine to the populace so as to get things done.
Philosophy, as you no doubt know means literally, "The Love of Wisdom."
I majored in philosophy at UVA, with a specialization in the ancient Greeks and took an ancient Greek history course with a Professor who had just finished a years sabbatical in Greece/Macedonia. Most interesting.
Did you know that the Parthenon was originally painted red, blue, and ?
And I agree, to much 'western philosophy' preaching liberal bullshit.
[h=3]New test reveals Parthenon's hidden colour | New Scientist[/h] https://www.newscientist.com/.../dn17309-new-test-reveals-parthenons-hidden-colour/
I majored in philosophy at UVA, with a specialization in the ancient Greeks and took an ancient Greek history course with a Professor who had just finished a years sabbatical in Greece/Macedonia. Most interesting.
Did you know that the Parthenon was originally painted red, blue, and ?
And I agree, to much 'western philosophy' preaching liberal bullshit.
[h=3]New test reveals Parthenon's hidden colour | New Scientist[/h] https://www.newscientist.com/.../dn17309-new-test-reveals-parthenons-hidden-colour/
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My wife did her bachelors thesis on Greek pornography/sexuality. Most of ancient Greek men batted for both teams.
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She's no doubt an interesting lady.
They saw it somewhat different than we did. The male relationship was at least a much about mentoring a younger man as it was sexuality.
And not all of them. Aristotle said that it was "Unnatural".
Men were for friendship, women for children.
Philosophy is good as long as you don't let it get in the way of getting things done.
Than there is also the way you wish Utopia to be but the reality of human nature.
Aesop had it figured out pretty good. Plato perhaps spent too much time chasing shit in the shadows.
The Founding Fathers seem to have created a Republic based on protecting the best expectations of human nature from the worst realities of human nature.
Your last sentence is profound.
The rest are kind of garbled. Wisdom never gets in the way of anything, nor does seeking it. In fact, not seeking wisdom lead to most, if not all, of our problems. What gets in the way is pride and arrogance, and an unwillingness to humble oneself before the truth.
But do you ever really know the absolute truth when the decision has to be made "right now".
Making a timely half baked decision is often times better than delaying.
Philosophers are often times those that "think about" doing but never do.
Trump is no philosopher. He sees an issue that the "swamp school of philosophy" is dicking around on and than he "does".
In this case he forced the hands of the Pentagon. After Mattis' 6 month review Im sure they would have asked for another review.
Trump instead goes full retard. Now its totally in the Pentagons court or Congress has to make a law.
Its not one mans social engineering. If the Pentagon needs SEALs in heels they can ask for them or Congress can make a law.
In the long run Trumps move will create a more lawful result less likely to be threatened by the winds of political change. Perhaps he did the trannys a solid, so to speak. As opposed to Obam that made decrees which in reality left humans hanging in limbo.
The truck driver didn't kill those border crossers in Texas....the Dems and those promising sanctuary or non enforcement of our laws did.
Trump didn't screw the trannys. Ashe Carter thinking his directives have the force of law and will be able to appropriate from the public coffers did.
Or as you note "pride and arrogance" caused this, not Trumps pride and arrogance though. He undid the unlawful diktat of the last admiin.
Mag,
As an aside.....consider the current circle jerk philosophy of health care......
Why the impasse, all the talk no action?
Incompatible goals.
One side (a minority) looks at it from the angle "How do we control costs and provide care?"
The other side (the majority) says how do we secure political support and control people?
Neither side is ever going to compromise.
The pride and arrogance of the latter never considered we would get a vote.
As an aside.....consider the current circle jerk philosophy of health care......
Why the impasse, all the talk no action?
Incompatible goals.
One side (a minority) looks at it from the angle "How do we control costs and provide care?"
The other side (the majority) says how do we secure political support and control people?
Neither side is ever going to compromise.
The pride and arrogance of the latter never considered we would get a vote.
We're talking apples and oranges.
When I say 'Philosophy' Im speaking of the (eternal) search for 'Wisdom' which becomes a lifetime pursuit. It, only in the broadest of terms, could be applied to making snap judgments. That would fall more under the realm of 'intuition' based on 'experience'.
-Knowing what to do when rounds are incoming is one of the later. The more youve survived t experience the better you immediate reaction. Thats intuition/experience/training.
-Holding the position that the middle ground, neither to the right nor left, is the superior vantage point for making wise decisions, is more a statement of philosophy.
You are speaking 'philosphy' with a small p. Just because you have an idea, or a series of ideas, it doesnt necessarily make it 'wisdom', usually more of an 'attitude. In DC the attitude seems to have become "How much can I steal and how long can I steal it for?" Rather than "IVE COME TO SERVE".
That my friends, is not wisdom, nor is it philosophy.
When I say 'Philosophy' Im speaking of the (eternal) search for 'Wisdom' which becomes a lifetime pursuit. It, only in the broadest of terms, could be applied to making snap judgments. That would fall more under the realm of 'intuition' based on 'experience'.
-Knowing what to do when rounds are incoming is one of the later. The more youve survived t experience the better you immediate reaction. Thats intuition/experience/training.
-Holding the position that the middle ground, neither to the right nor left, is the superior vantage point for making wise decisions, is more a statement of philosophy.
You are speaking 'philosphy' with a small p. Just because you have an idea, or a series of ideas, it doesnt necessarily make it 'wisdom', usually more of an 'attitude. In DC the attitude seems to have become "How much can I steal and how long can I steal it for?" Rather than "IVE COME TO SERVE".
That my friends, is not wisdom, nor is it philosophy.
Bumping an old thread because I read this outstanding bit of prose today, written by a Sgt. Brown, USA.
Nobody has a "right" to serve in the Military. Nobody.
What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.
The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.
Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? He aring damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn? Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can't run the required course in the required time? Can't do the required number of pushups?
Not really a "morning person" and refuse to get out of bed before noon?
All can be reasons for denial.
The Military has one job. War. (Break things and kill bad people) Anything else is a distraction and a liability.
Did someone just scream "That isn't Fair"? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.
YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.
I say again: You don't change the Military... you must change yourself.
The Military doesn't need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.
If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality... Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who's next in line?
Cheers,
Sirhr
Nobody has a "right" to serve in the Military. Nobody.
What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.
The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.
Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? He aring damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn? Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can't run the required course in the required time? Can't do the required number of pushups?
Not really a "morning person" and refuse to get out of bed before noon?
All can be reasons for denial.
The Military has one job. War. (Break things and kill bad people) Anything else is a distraction and a liability.
Did someone just scream "That isn't Fair"? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.
YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.
I say again: You don't change the Military... you must change yourself.
The Military doesn't need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.
If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality... Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who's next in line?
Cheers,
Sirhr
