Sorting brass.
- Thread starter shooter98
- Start date
Thats for you to test.
If you have mixed brass then yeah, the different types and batches absolutely can require a different recipe.
If its all one type then probably the same recipe but both could shoot them slightly different, shoot the heavies with the heavy and the light with the light for best groups. Any change in the brass is a change. Consistency is key for the best groups.
The heavier brass has more material and that material takes up volume, less volume equals more pressure. PV=nRT, if V is smaller than P is higher.
I would size and trim them before weight sorting so that you can at least make their outside dimensions the same to try and get the brass all on the same baseline so you are hopefully only noticing the differences in internal volume.
Even better would be to weigh them with water or alcohol. Use this to plug the case, put it on the scale and zero. Fill it up with water and then you have the weight of its actual equivalent internal volume.
Weight sorting and water case capacity tests are great tools to find cases that are most similar to each other. In this way you get the most consistency in your loads. You can do this with any brass but the lower the quality you will have to sort through more to fine the "A" group. This is the cases closest to each other.
If you sort through 100 lapua brass cases you may only have 1 or 2 that are not within 1.5% or 2% of the average. If you sort through 100 Lake City brass you may find 40 or 60 that are in your "A" group (within your chosen spec).
The other reason for sorting by water test is to determine if you want/need more powder in the case. Maybe you are not getting the velocity with one brand so you switch to another to gain more internal charge weight capacity.
If you sort through 100 lapua brass cases you may only have 1 or 2 that are not within 1.5% or 2% of the average. If you sort through 100 Lake City brass you may find 40 or 60 that are in your "A" group (within your chosen spec).
The other reason for sorting by water test is to determine if you want/need more powder in the case. Maybe you are not getting the velocity with one brand so you switch to another to gain more internal charge weight capacity.
I'm sure you will find those that will go to great lengths to disprove the case weight to volume relationship. Building tables and charts and all.
There are some heavier cases in one brand that might actually have more case volume than lighter cases in another brand. If you stick with one brand you will likely find a direct correlation though. Not one to one, more like a 4 to one weight to volume relationship.
Volume doesn't play as big a role in pressure/velocity as Charge Weight but it does have an effect. People don't have a problem believing seating depth impacting pressure or that "Military" 5.56 cases have less volume than "Civilian" 223 cases and could change firing pressure but ask them to sort cases by weight and they balk.
Group your brass by headstanp, weight sort, then LOOK at the distribution. Just like any other product, there WILL be a distribution with a sufficient size sample.
Here's a few boxes of 22 Nosler 62gr factory ammo. Cartridge weight generally 208grs with a couple of outliers @ 204 grs and one @ 210.
My GUESS is that is mostly case weight variation. Picking the 207/208 to plink with (bought at a discount) should give me closely matched once fired cases to reload.
I'll mark the Light and Heavy and keep them for fouling shots.
Will they perform differently? Not at 100 or 200 yards but they won't be tagging along to a competition. Sorry little fellers.
The second pic is 7.62X39 sorted.
There are some heavier cases in one brand that might actually have more case volume than lighter cases in another brand. If you stick with one brand you will likely find a direct correlation though. Not one to one, more like a 4 to one weight to volume relationship.
Volume doesn't play as big a role in pressure/velocity as Charge Weight but it does have an effect. People don't have a problem believing seating depth impacting pressure or that "Military" 5.56 cases have less volume than "Civilian" 223 cases and could change firing pressure but ask them to sort cases by weight and they balk.
Group your brass by headstanp, weight sort, then LOOK at the distribution. Just like any other product, there WILL be a distribution with a sufficient size sample.
Here's a few boxes of 22 Nosler 62gr factory ammo. Cartridge weight generally 208grs with a couple of outliers @ 204 grs and one @ 210.
My GUESS is that is mostly case weight variation. Picking the 207/208 to plink with (bought at a discount) should give me closely matched once fired cases to reload.
I'll mark the Light and Heavy and keep them for fouling shots.
Will they perform differently? Not at 100 or 200 yards but they won't be tagging along to a competition. Sorry little fellers.
The second pic is 7.62X39 sorted.
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Have you done any sort of testing, let’s say do a grouping test @ 500 yards with sorted ammo versus unsorted ammo? I’m curious what the real world results are and not just the scientific guesses would be.
I have shot the high and low culls against cartridges pulled from the mean, but only at 100 yds.
When I reload, heavier cases with the same charge as lighter cases go faster across the Chrono. I set up my range boxes in 10 round sorted groups.
I just started shooting 6ooyds and just don't want to have fliers if I can help it.
I sight it at 100yds, take it to a meet for 600.
Like I said, other than slightly opened groups with the extremes I couldn't see anything significant @ 100 yds where I do most of my shooting.
Now, steel cased X39 and 54R foreign ammo groups are better sorted. The steel jacketed projectiles add a mix of a few grains.
Pulled down and put back together (Mexican Match) better yet.
I put together a 6.8 at a club meeting in Florida. Brought 3 boxes of Federal cheap 115gr. Sorted out 20 rounds of the 60 and they "Shot better" than a left over box, again, just at 100 yds.
I sort cases, sort bullets (have found mixed up weights in bulk bullets) weigh charges. Does it matter? For minimal effort it seems worth it to me. Now, I don't weigh primers
Most of the weight of a primer ain't the mix.
I am playing with a 22 Nosler right now. 22N cases and necked down 6mm Hagar cases. Drastic difference in weight and capacity.
Think that would matter? 12 to 13% difference in weight, about 3% different in capacity even once fired and resized.
As far as Scientific data about case weight/powder capacity, just look at the .223, the .223AI, the 22 Nosler.
Primary difference is powder capacity. Same with the many variations in 6.5 cartridges.
If 7% between the 223 and 223AI makes a difference, would 1 or 2% capacity be negligible?
When I reload, heavier cases with the same charge as lighter cases go faster across the Chrono. I set up my range boxes in 10 round sorted groups.
I just started shooting 6ooyds and just don't want to have fliers if I can help it.
I sight it at 100yds, take it to a meet for 600.
Like I said, other than slightly opened groups with the extremes I couldn't see anything significant @ 100 yds where I do most of my shooting.
Now, steel cased X39 and 54R foreign ammo groups are better sorted. The steel jacketed projectiles add a mix of a few grains.
Pulled down and put back together (Mexican Match) better yet.
I put together a 6.8 at a club meeting in Florida. Brought 3 boxes of Federal cheap 115gr. Sorted out 20 rounds of the 60 and they "Shot better" than a left over box, again, just at 100 yds.
I sort cases, sort bullets (have found mixed up weights in bulk bullets) weigh charges. Does it matter? For minimal effort it seems worth it to me. Now, I don't weigh primers
Most of the weight of a primer ain't the mix.I am playing with a 22 Nosler right now. 22N cases and necked down 6mm Hagar cases. Drastic difference in weight and capacity.
Think that would matter? 12 to 13% difference in weight, about 3% different in capacity even once fired and resized.
As far as Scientific data about case weight/powder capacity, just look at the .223, the .223AI, the 22 Nosler.
Primary difference is powder capacity. Same with the many variations in 6.5 cartridges.
If 7% between the 223 and 223AI makes a difference, would 1 or 2% capacity be negligible?
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