I do agree with Lowlight, not you.
Advanced Marksmanship Speed Drop - Colby Hodnett
- Thread starter seansmd
- Start date
My feelings are hurt.............
Would the 1 Mil rule past 300 yards work for .223/5.56? I’ll give it a try.
Your dope is more accurate and I'm not seeing or buying into these fictional scenarios where you "can't get to it"
If you're ready to shoot and don't have two ways of getting a firing solution within arms reach you're doing it wrong.
Pretending this is a worthwhile thing to practice is silly. If you find yourself without dope at the point where you need to shoot maybe you should practice writing down dope instead of hokey math to find a "close" solution to your repeated forgetfulness problem.
I don't memorize my dope, it changes based on conditions and load and caliber. I do write it down before a stage and I've got my Kestrel as a backup.
I've yet to find myself in this fictional scenario this guy convinces everyone is a likely occurrence.
If you're ready to shoot and don't have two ways of getting a firing solution within arms reach you're doing it wrong.
Pretending this is a worthwhile thing to practice is silly. If you find yourself without dope at the point where you need to shoot maybe you should practice writing down dope instead of hokey math to find a "close" solution to your repeated forgetfulness problem.
I don't memorize my dope, it changes based on conditions and load and caliber. I do write it down before a stage and I've got my Kestrel as a backup.
I've yet to find myself in this fictional scenario this guy convinces everyone is a likely occurrence.
Haha I caught that as well...
Maybe he has a pre-production version
they do have celebrity status it would not be unusual for them to have an early release one
they do have celebrity status it would not be unusual for them to have an early release one
Normally I would think that would be the case, but it took about 30 seconds of him fumbling around trying to remember what brand of trigger it was, and went back and forth on if it was a single or two stage trigger before he finally decided that it was a TT two stage.
With how unconfident he was, I bet it's something else.
Inconsequential, it doesn't really matter. Not all shooters are gear guys like us. But I thought it was a curious observation.
I never heard it, so what you say does make sense
it was most likely a normal one if he was fumbling for the details. If they gave him a pre-production model it would probably resonate.
I tend to remember that stuff more so than when I just drop something in
it was most likely a normal one if he was fumbling for the details. If they gave him a pre-production model it would probably resonate.
I tend to remember that stuff more so than when I just drop something in
RUEBENSKI - After reading your comments I've even greater appreciation for warriors like you. In my 20yrs military service the worst injury I had was a paper cut and biggest decision was who to release for mess.
Thank you for your service, advice on weaponry, and experiences. I'm humbled.
Thank you for your service, advice on weaponry, and experiences. I'm humbled.
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Deleted member 113831
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What is the rule of 10's or 20's?
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Deleted member 113831
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Ok, thanks. I'm familiar with flash milling drills then, just never heard them referred to like that.
It's pretty amazing what you can get away with and still get a hit on a torso sized target out to 500-600 yards huh?
It is always shocking to see so many people come out of the woodwork to bash these guys, whatever they have helped with: wind formula, tremor, h59,high angle formula... Are you upset that they are successful? Are you upset that they are helping the Mil/Civ shooting community make things more simple and repeatable? Are you offended that they always seem to be nice, genuine guys? Anyway, this thread is to talk about speed drop, not to come out bashing a father and son who have irrefutably helped advance the field. Their formulas work, if you dont find them beneficial for you then don't use them. If someone else(military included) does value them, don't get so easily offended. You will likely sleep better and have a more enjoyable time behind your keyboard.
FYI the formula is now built into the Kestrel 5700 Elite latest firmware. Also, it works in Meters not yards.
FYI the formula is now built into the Kestrel 5700 Elite latest firmware. Also, it works in Meters not yards.
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Todd's famous wind formula was introduced to the Army school house in the late 90's by a Ranger / sniper named Dan Flowers. Since personal ballistic programs weren't a thing yet, is was worked out using Excel spreadsheets. I myself learned it from Dan in 1999.
Todd learned the formula somewhere, most likely from one of Dan's former students, around 2005 and took it for his own. (Curiously though, I've never heard Todd explain the exact way in which speed and altitude change that formula. I guess he wasn't smart enough to steal it all.)
He monetized the formula by incorporating it into those abortions known as the "Tremor" series of reticles, and selling them back to the Army he stole it from.
Todd never saw an idea he wouldn't steal. That is why he's hated.
I was there the first day he arrived on the scene as Handlebar Doc,
his only formal instruction was one week at rifles only
the whiz wheel was stolen from the UK TAS Wheel or Tactical Adjustment System
the Density Altitude part was stolen from David Tubb when Eddie Abraham introduced him
the ballistic loophole abortion is lifted as well, you can do it easier with any app just make the zero range the target range and reduce the increments to 1 yard then see the +/- meet but that formula was pure shit.
Rifles Only was the original Horus training group until they hired a felon in Wes Harris, I did the last class for them at fort campbell where I stuck the tires on Wes Harris‘ rental car with my Strider SMF, our dropping of the Horus contract was the same month he took the class with Jacob. Who told him we weren’t teaching it any more. To his credit he made it work.
his international sniper competition that used to decorate the early resume was a match at Tac Pro in Texas because it’s owned by a Brit. That was funny cause we all used to shoot TAC Pro, hell I slept in Alice’s guest room a couple times.
it‘s well known he never heard a good idea from some one else he didn’t like for himself.
he is a very good and successful salesman. Like when a company buys a CNC and HAAS sends someone to set it up and turn it on. He also has a sugar daddy that funds much of it. who happens to machine for the military. None of it was done in a vacuum and the recoil profile was completely spun to hide the truth. The real history is much less impressive.
like most Texans he is a good shot, but there is nothing special there.
its easy to walk into a military unit who is interested buying a product like the Horus and glean information from the members Who have actually served. Or to ply them with favors like free OBRs It’s a completely different story to enlist and actually qualify to be a sniper, those 12 weeks are far less forgiving.
9/11 opened the floodgates to bringing in people to work with the military. I am always amazed how the handgun and carbine world ran a lot of Guys off who were more poser than actual operators, the precision rifle world has been much more forgiving. He’s the rifle equivalent of the T Rex guy, who can teach themselves to be flashy but is there really any substance to it all?
nobody can deny the capitalism side of the business, it’s American.
his only formal instruction was one week at rifles only
the whiz wheel was stolen from the UK TAS Wheel or Tactical Adjustment System
the Density Altitude part was stolen from David Tubb when Eddie Abraham introduced him
the ballistic loophole abortion is lifted as well, you can do it easier with any app just make the zero range the target range and reduce the increments to 1 yard then see the +/- meet but that formula was pure shit.
Rifles Only was the original Horus training group until they hired a felon in Wes Harris, I did the last class for them at fort campbell where I stuck the tires on Wes Harris‘ rental car with my Strider SMF, our dropping of the Horus contract was the same month he took the class with Jacob. Who told him we weren’t teaching it any more. To his credit he made it work.
his international sniper competition that used to decorate the early resume was a match at Tac Pro in Texas because it’s owned by a Brit. That was funny cause we all used to shoot TAC Pro, hell I slept in Alice’s guest room a couple times.
it‘s well known he never heard a good idea from some one else he didn’t like for himself.
he is a very good and successful salesman. Like when a company buys a CNC and HAAS sends someone to set it up and turn it on. He also has a sugar daddy that funds much of it. who happens to machine for the military. None of it was done in a vacuum and the recoil profile was completely spun to hide the truth. The real history is much less impressive.
like most Texans he is a good shot, but there is nothing special there.
its easy to walk into a military unit who is interested buying a product like the Horus and glean information from the members Who have actually served. Or to ply them with favors like free OBRs It’s a completely different story to enlist and actually qualify to be a sniper, those 12 weeks are far less forgiving.
9/11 opened the floodgates to bringing in people to work with the military. I am always amazed how the handgun and carbine world ran a lot of Guys off who were more poser than actual operators, the precision rifle world has been much more forgiving. He’s the rifle equivalent of the T Rex guy, who can teach themselves to be flashy but is there really any substance to it all?
nobody can deny the capitalism side of the business, it’s American.
@lowlight you and @Enough Said need to patent and publish your weaponized math before you find it in the next accuracy 1st curriculum.
@reubenski dude I have no issue, sure you liked to poke me from time to time but I never took it personally. We’d definitely agree on many things, but there is a bit more to the story people don’t know.
he was actively protected by his buddies in CAG and had an active stealth campaign to protect his turf as he saw it. sure I agree he acted like a system integrator vs a actual instructor. At RO I just worked there, I had no real control over the direction we took and Jacob just refused to play his games, and his personality did not do him any favors. TH was much more personable when you compare the two.
TH not only called the FBI on me, but unleashed a host of attacks behind the scenes to suppress anyone who could contradict him from getting anywhere near you guys. I had a funny conversation with the FBI when I literally told them to fuck off and go tell him to fight his own battles. Only a few years ago I met that agent by accident and he introduced himself as that person. Today we get along fine. His first words to Me were, you were right. I can’t tell you how many times my phone rang with a host of 000-000-0000 telling me to shut up about this stuff. Even SW from PRS fame called me to shut up when he took over. That is how I met him.
the Magpul abortion, they hated it at first and brought me in. I had three full pages on a legal pad of his BS because like most who never, he just threw everything he ever heard at the camera, and the Non-Haley side of Magpul didn’t want it released. The result was Caylen coming in. After the DVD he threatened them legally that they could not teach his system, you know the Stuff he borrowed. As if, that is what really started things down the road to negativity. I don’t like bullies and will fight back with the same.
i was never gonna start up my own training group to chase things and when I left RO they began to fade so it was a non issue for me. I had this Site well before both and it wasn’t really compatible with military contracts.
but that doesn’t mean I don’t know where and how the bodies were buried. In hindsight, I realized inherited the fight more than really having any skin in it. I was seen as the public face because Jacob wanted to appear to be above it. I was loyal to a fault and took up the battle. LaRue approached Jacob on TH behalf to get me fired more than once, even calling when we were on the line and eventually all things come to an end.
but free plane flights, trips to TX, OBRs, scopes, do work as currency with young broke soldiers. Not being exposed to different philosophy because you weren’t allowed to doesn’t make it right. Yes someone would always fill that gap.
even with the addition of AB after the Horus stuff fell apart, Bryan rightly confronted me asking not to be included in the Hatfield vs McCoy situation this all created. You can say he won that fight, but he wasn’t alone. He was protected on high. He even involved the USMC Scout Sniper Association. i am a plank owner of that group, combat life member, 048 is my number, they stood me down too. Free hunts have value. Today there is a much disputed inclusion of both LaRue and TH, that was completely outside the norm. They are corporate additions done to prevent me from escalating the fight back in the day. It was designed to say we were one team. Not.
I‘m a pitbull, and like Denver just reversed, rather than fight one you outlaw them.
my point, it wasn’t organic it was manufactured. Protection takes many forms in our world I see him every Shot show I make sure to get his eye, smile and wave. I get it, we had a good battle, but I don’t affect him and he barely affects me. Live and learn. It made for great stories.
but dude PM any time i love a cup of coffee and if I’m in town will drop by any time as my days are easy. Life is good, I’m having Fun playing Peter Pan at 50+. I’m not changing now, and i do have one thing, an actual title, been there, done that, and walked away with more than the T-shirt.
he was actively protected by his buddies in CAG and had an active stealth campaign to protect his turf as he saw it. sure I agree he acted like a system integrator vs a actual instructor. At RO I just worked there, I had no real control over the direction we took and Jacob just refused to play his games, and his personality did not do him any favors. TH was much more personable when you compare the two.
TH not only called the FBI on me, but unleashed a host of attacks behind the scenes to suppress anyone who could contradict him from getting anywhere near you guys. I had a funny conversation with the FBI when I literally told them to fuck off and go tell him to fight his own battles. Only a few years ago I met that agent by accident and he introduced himself as that person. Today we get along fine. His first words to Me were, you were right. I can’t tell you how many times my phone rang with a host of 000-000-0000 telling me to shut up about this stuff. Even SW from PRS fame called me to shut up when he took over. That is how I met him.
the Magpul abortion, they hated it at first and brought me in. I had three full pages on a legal pad of his BS because like most who never, he just threw everything he ever heard at the camera, and the Non-Haley side of Magpul didn’t want it released. The result was Caylen coming in. After the DVD he threatened them legally that they could not teach his system, you know the Stuff he borrowed. As if, that is what really started things down the road to negativity. I don’t like bullies and will fight back with the same.
i was never gonna start up my own training group to chase things and when I left RO they began to fade so it was a non issue for me. I had this Site well before both and it wasn’t really compatible with military contracts.
but that doesn’t mean I don’t know where and how the bodies were buried. In hindsight, I realized inherited the fight more than really having any skin in it. I was seen as the public face because Jacob wanted to appear to be above it. I was loyal to a fault and took up the battle. LaRue approached Jacob on TH behalf to get me fired more than once, even calling when we were on the line and eventually all things come to an end.
but free plane flights, trips to TX, OBRs, scopes, do work as currency with young broke soldiers. Not being exposed to different philosophy because you weren’t allowed to doesn’t make it right. Yes someone would always fill that gap.
even with the addition of AB after the Horus stuff fell apart, Bryan rightly confronted me asking not to be included in the Hatfield vs McCoy situation this all created. You can say he won that fight, but he wasn’t alone. He was protected on high. He even involved the USMC Scout Sniper Association. i am a plank owner of that group, combat life member, 048 is my number, they stood me down too. Free hunts have value. Today there is a much disputed inclusion of both LaRue and TH, that was completely outside the norm. They are corporate additions done to prevent me from escalating the fight back in the day. It was designed to say we were one team. Not.
I‘m a pitbull, and like Denver just reversed, rather than fight one you outlaw them.
my point, it wasn’t organic it was manufactured. Protection takes many forms in our world I see him every Shot show I make sure to get his eye, smile and wave. I get it, we had a good battle, but I don’t affect him and he barely affects me. Live and learn. It made for great stories.
but dude PM any time i love a cup of coffee and if I’m in town will drop by any time as my days are easy. Life is good, I’m having Fun playing Peter Pan at 50+. I’m not changing now, and i do have one thing, an actual title, been there, done that, and walked away with more than the T-shirt.
TH shoots at the same facility that I am a member. Always a blast when he and Mark Larue are out together 
TH shoots at the same facility that I am a member. Always a blast when he and Mark Larue are out together
I can only imagine. I would probably pack up and leave if there was too much BS. I have a low tolerance for BS these days.
Ehh, it's the cock-gobbling from the other guys out there that I can't stand. More so towards Mark. I'm sure you know, the tacticool types. This isn't a public facility either.
Yeah that's kind of what I was expecting. Hopefully TH and Mark don't "hold court" and make a spectacle of it.
Mark tried really hard to get me fired,
gave Jacob an OBR, prior to that they barely spoke, gave RO a ton of targets, even a few custom ones. It was pretty hardcore the campaign to silence me.
At the end, when nothing was working, Range 37 was seriously pissed at me over this stuff, because I laughing at every attempt Tom Fuller got involved and out of my friendship and respect there I complied. That ended the public back and forth for a long time.
Only like now when people think they know the story, do I say anything, in reality it's all in the past, water under the bridge as they say. But don't try to rewrite my history, you'll lose.
gave Jacob an OBR, prior to that they barely spoke, gave RO a ton of targets, even a few custom ones. It was pretty hardcore the campaign to silence me.
At the end, when nothing was working, Range 37 was seriously pissed at me over this stuff, because I laughing at every attempt Tom Fuller got involved and out of my friendship and respect there I complied. That ended the public back and forth for a long time.
Only like now when people think they know the story, do I say anything, in reality it's all in the past, water under the bridge as they say. But don't try to rewrite my history, you'll lose.
I’m surprised they even have time to shoot I mean with them always stroking each other and all.TH shoots at the same facility that I am a member. Always a blast when he and Mark Larue are out together
I’m dead.
A little Costa mixed in and they'd all have to get tested for the tactical herpes (TacHerps). Damn that would be the perfect "dynamic" crew.
800 mg Motrin kills that shit.
I spent a fair amount of time listening to TH and learning his methodology. I was drinking the kool aid and ready to buy me a Tremor 2 (this was pre Tremor 3). TH is a charismatic and confidence promoting individual so it doesn't surprise me he has committed followers.
The more I studied what Frank shares the more I realized that its 2 different philosphies. TH is selling a product but Frank is sharing knowledge. Todd's stuff works but to me it feels more like you are buying into equipment and without that equipment your success would be very limited. What I've learned here on the hide empowers me to solve the problem myself and have tools that are more universal. For example the mil wind formulas vs wind dots. I can use my mil based reticles across the whole spectrum of calibers with minor tweaks whereas I would have to go back and relearn my whole system using TH system. I guess I would call it equipment dependence vs knowledge.
To each his own and each style is just another tool in the toolbox, I'm glad to have the Hide here for all I've learned. When something better comes along I'm sure we'll be discussing it too.
The more I studied what Frank shares the more I realized that its 2 different philosphies. TH is selling a product but Frank is sharing knowledge. Todd's stuff works but to me it feels more like you are buying into equipment and without that equipment your success would be very limited. What I've learned here on the hide empowers me to solve the problem myself and have tools that are more universal. For example the mil wind formulas vs wind dots. I can use my mil based reticles across the whole spectrum of calibers with minor tweaks whereas I would have to go back and relearn my whole system using TH system. I guess I would call it equipment dependence vs knowledge.
To each his own and each style is just another tool in the toolbox, I'm glad to have the Hide here for all I've learned. When something better comes along I'm sure we'll be discussing it too.
I am getting a history lesson today. Wish I could see this video!!
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Holly Dillo sauce that is a jem! I guess there was some heavy video editing somewhere after that moment.... "errbody take your scope off and pass it to the right"
1 - that video needs its own pin; but its mature to just leave it alone like was said.
2 - This explains a lot - I wish I read this whole thread a month ago, but oh well.
C - Apparently if a person tries to improve on a Tremor-like design (which they portray as meaning - anything with 2 lines that intersect to create 4 quadrants, built on a transparent disc) in any way, 'HVRT' et al. will "sink your battleship!"
Their [sue first, talk turkey while your heads on the chopping block] strategy just speaks volumes about how insecure those guys really are - TBH it makes me want to mess with them even more. You'd think if the [idea] is generally same (I want to hit the target Im aiming at) but easier, or similar (putting wind calls into the FOV/increase time on glass) but better...then up your own game! Dont kill the [idea], improve yourself and compete honorably. They hide behind these facades and try to intimidate their way to the bank and avoid critical thinking - really it tells me they dont much care if a person in harms way/combat could be better served with another's equipment - their spigot is flowing and God help you if some shitty rocks clog/alter that flow.
They apparently think that they have a lifelong, recurring patent on gravity and the atmosphere - I mean Ive run into these types before so Im not like "whoa what has the world become" but damn man after reading above how Tremor (and the ideas surrounding it) came into being - all I can do for now is shake my head and laugh.
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