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Spotting scope 600 to 1000 yards

Don-n-Texas

Don-n-Texas

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 17, 2011
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Houston now in Denton County
I would like to buy a spotting scope for bench rest range use. Seeing 30 cal bullet holes on paper at 600 yards is a must. .224 at 600 yards a plus. At 1000yds a big plus. I'm looking in the $900.00 to $1000.00 range.
The two I'm looking at

Vortex Viper HD Spotting Scope 20-60x 80mm Armored Green $899.99

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2420129912/vortex-viper-hd-spotting-scope-20-60x-80mm-armored-green

Leupold Kenai HD Angled Spotting Scope 25-60x 80mm Gray/Black $899.99

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/81...-angled-spotting-scope-25-60x-80mm-gray-black

Has anyone used either or both at 600 yds or 1000 yrds?
 
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I had a very high end Kowa that coudn't pick up 30 cal holes at 600. Or even much beyond 300. I suspect you are looking for a portable Hubbell telescope. Be prepared to pony up....IF such a thing even exists.
 
I have used a Vortex Razor HD 20-60 and it is ok but I haven't been able to pick out bullet holes unless I am shooting a shoot and see target.

I have looked through the Kenai HD and I would not recommend it either.

I would say you have high hopes. Good Luck
 
I've looked through a Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85. While it was clear and a very nice scope and could see my holes at 300 with ease, I do not think your gonna see .223 holes at 1000 let alone 600. Maybe contact NASA and see if they have any ideas.... Only kidding. Good luck
 
I had another thought....

Get a high end spotter, and then shoot at AR500 painted steel, such that the lead will make a fairly large splash on the paint, prolly in the 2-3" range. That's the only way you are gonna see .30 hits at 1,000, or .22 hits at 600.
 
You will be frustrated. Get a remote target camera like from targetcam.net. You will save substantial money and be able to do what you want to do (see bullet holes when shooting paper at long distance). I have a Kowa TSN-883. It is basically the highest end spotter out there. In mirage, I can't pick out shots at 600. I have only seen bullet holes with a Shoot-n-C at 1,000 on a very still, clear, well-lit day with no mirage, and I still had some difficulty not being able to pick them all out. Total spend was around $3K.

With a Target Cam, you will be out about $800 and never have a problem missing a bullet hole. Creedmoor sells a target cam with special software that will actually highlight the last bullet hole. There is a lot out there to do what you want, a spotter just won't cut it.
 
clmayfield said:
You will be frustrated. Get a remote target camera like from targetcam.net. You will save substantial money and be able to do what you want to do (see bullet holes when shooting paper at long distance). I have a Kowa TSN-883. It is basically the highest end spotter out there. In mirage, I can't pick out shots at 600. I have only seen bullet holes with a Shoot-n-C at 1,000 on a very still, clear, well-lit day with no mirage, and I still had some difficulty not being able to pick them all out. Total spend was around $3K.

With a Target Cam, you will be out about $800 and never have a problem missing a bullet hole. Creedmoor sells a target cam with special software that will actually highlight the last bullet hole. There is a lot out there to do what you want, a spotter just won't cut it.
Click to expand...

I've heard some good things about Target Cams ~ Definitely worth checking out considering they're FAR under your price range and good for 2000+...
 
clmayfield said:
You will be frustrated. Get a remote target camera like from targetcam.net. You will save substantial money and be able to do what you want to do (see bullet holes when shooting paper at long distance). I have a Kowa TSN-883. It is basically the highest end spotter out there. In mirage, I can't pick out shots at 600. I have only seen bullet holes with a Shoot-n-C at 1,000 on a very still, clear, well-lit day with no mirage, and I still had some difficulty not being able to pick them all out. Total spend was around $3K.

With a Target Cam, you will be out about $800 and never have a problem missing a bullet hole. Creedmoor sells a target cam with special software that will actually highlight the last bullet hole. There is a lot out there to do what you want, a spotter just won't cut it.
Click to expand...


$800 is not a bad deal compare to $3000 Leica
 
Cheapest way out is to Spend some money on the Ar500 steel paint it orange you will easily see hits at 600 with a 10 power rifle scope. It will Probably cost ya under $200. My Kowa is nice but the only thing I've ever seen bullet holes with was my nightforce 12-42 BR scope at 600. Even then its only a small window in the early morning when that was possible cool clear morning's only. Hopefully you can use the steel its a great training aid!!! Heck if you cut it to a given dimension you can even practice using your reticle to measure distance to target. Best of luck.
 
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The unaided, healthy human eye resolves to about 1MOA resolution, and probably does best with optics possessing an exit pupil diameter of at least 3mm (to correspond the eye's pupil diameter, which varies with the light level.) When we see 'shadowing' around the magnified image, we are dealing with an exit pupil diameter (that varies as a factor of the combined magnification power, eye relief distance, and objective diameter) which is appreciably smaller than the eye's current pupil diameter.

At 1000yd, .30cal resolves to very nearly .03MOA, this means it will require approximately 33X or so to magnify it to 1MOA diameter. Coincidentally, at 33X, a 60mm objective produces an exit pupil diameter of just under 2mm. An 80mm objective renders an exit pupil diameter of about 2.6mm.

Unfortunately, mirage generally make magnifications in excess of around 18-20X problematic.

The task of conclusively resolving bullet holes beyond 500yd is probably an unattainable goal with basic mechanical optical systems, and it is the eye, not the optics, which limits progress.

100mm and 20X provides a 4mm exit pupil. Assuming an optical light transmission efficiency of 100%; that might work, but 100% does not, and probably never will, exist without light amplification and computer processing capabilities.

Extended vision costs, how much can you afford?

I use the Vortex Nomad 20-60X60mm Spotting scope, and recommend the straight eyepiece version for bench/prone use. http://www.eagleoptics.com/spotting...otting-scope?gclid=CM2Sw4bb4LUCFY6e4AodiEwAeA It can resolve 22 caliber holes at 250yd under most shootable conditions.

Greg
 
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2clicks said:
Cheapest way out is to Spend some money on the Ar500 steel paint it orange you will easily see hits at 600 with a 10 power rifle scope. .
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of going this route, but am thinking AR500 painted white. Wouldn't that contrast better, with the metallic grey of steel?
 
Believe it or not the best contrast is the fluorescent orange. When the paint chips away its greyish underneath. Its hard to distinguish the hits when you use the white paint grey being close to white. The biggest benefit for me using the steel has been reading the Mirage. Seeing it pick up and let off and impact shifts on the steal as the mirage moves stops or switches direction. Instant feedback when you see your shot impact the steel. Some of the best money I've spent on that AR500 steel.
 
Can't remember where I read this, but read (on the interwebz) of a shooter whose holy grail was a spotter allowing holes in paper to be seen reliably @ 600 yards.

He went through many spotters and settled on the Pentax 80mm ED model, which was hard for him to find. It wasn't *the* solution to his quest, but was the best he could find.

That said, on a number of ocassions, I've been able to see 7mm holes in white paper @ 600 yards at 25x through my premier riflescope. NOT consistently though.
 
Hey Don and others, this is Keith, owner/designer of the TargetCam www.TargetCam.net. I'd like to offer our product to you because you are describing exactly what it is designed for - seeing shots on target at over 600 yards. Spotting scopes, even the top of the line $3k Kowas and Swarovskis, won't be able to at over 500 or so, even less with a hot days mirage.

We also have some pretty amazing things planned for our product in the near future. Can't tell you about this just yet (classified, if I told you I'd have to...well, you know...). I've designed our current product so that these enhanced capabilities can be retrofitted once we release them.

Drop me a line or email any time with questions about our product or to place an order. We are getting significant order flow and we haven't even started advertising yet so let me know asap. As of now we also offer Hide members a $70 discount.

Keith Averill
 
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cvbond said:
TahoeRider Are you the guy at SHOT that had the target cam?
Click to expand...

Yes I am. I was running around SHOT with one of our units. Where did I see you?

Also just an FYI. Very soon, within the next week I'd say, our product will be available in the "store" on this site (under "Shop Sniper's Hide" on the top). When you buy from the "store" you get the sniper's hide discount pluss some of the proceeds from the sale go to supporting this site. If you are considering ordering a unit from us let me know and I will let you know as soon as it is available in the "store."

Any orders that come from this site I am going to direct to the "store."
 
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TahoeRider said:
Hey Don and others, this is Keith, owner/designer of the TargetCam www.TargetCam.net. I'd like to offer our product to you because you are describing exactly what it is designed for - seeing shots on target at over 600 yards. Spotting scopes, even the top of the line $3k Kowas and Swarovskis, won't be able to at over 500 or so, even less with a hot days mirage.

We also have some pretty amazing things planned for our product in the near future. Can't tell you about this just yet (classified, if I told you I'd have to...well, you know...). I've designed our current product so that these enhanced capabilities can be retrofitted once we release them.

Drop me a line or email any time with questions about our product or to place an order. We are getting significant order flow and we haven't even started advertising yet so let me know asap. As of now we also offer Hide members a $70 discount.

Keith Averill
Click to expand...
Sir,

Seriously looking at your product as I've been looking for a scope for the same purposes.

As I said earlier, I've only heard good things @ these, hope the rumors are true.

My question is, realistically, what's the resolution of the camera and what's the max viewing distance?

For example, I shoot 308 out to 1k occasionally and even a gust of wind at 600-700yds is going to send the round off a bit -- I'm worried I might hit the camera. While it's not exactly crippling to replace the camera, $300 is also not something to scoff at -- What's the max operating distance of the camera --> target?
 
Masked, the camera is tested to allow you to see bullet holes, even little 223 holes, at over 1500 yards. What we have found is holes are the easiest to see if you use predominantly white or light colored targets. Those plain white with fluorescent orange or yellow ringed targets work very well. Black colored or dark colored targets make it much harder to see the black bullet holes on the screen. The system works best with the high contrast of black holes/white target.

As for the possibility of shooting your camera...we haven't had it happen yet but what we offer people is this: First, we will go online to publicly humiliate you. We will tell everyone that will listen that you shot your own camera....just kidding. Seriously, if you shoot your camera don't sweat it too bad. Just send us the damaged camera and we will rebuild it for the cost of parts plus shipping. Worst case, if everything is destroyed, we'll just sell you another one at cost. We are also designing a "camera protector" made out of 3/8" AR500 steel for this reason, to be sold separately as an accessory - available very soon. Another alternative is to do what one of our other customers did. He just bought a regular steel target and set it up so it sits in front of his camera just high enough to let the antenna peak out over the top. This is a very good idea because you can always use another steel target anyways. We recommend you put camera off at an angle and about 20 ft away from the target.

feel free to call or email me any time. Right now we have a wait list but we can get you on it and then deliver in about 3-4 weeks.

I was kidding, I promise not to humiliate you - keith
 
I spent some time talking to these guys at SHOT and I am impressed. I like the entire system and am tickled it is getting to market.

If anyone is worried about shooting the camera, just put it behind a piece of steel plate or a couple of blocks of wood. If you can chrono ammo without destroying the sky screens, missing the camera is a snap.

TahoeRider I saw something about optional lens on your site. What are they and how would those be *better* than the stock lens?
 
Hey cv, I talked to a lot of people at SHOT so sorry if I can't place who you are....thanks though,

The optional lenses are used only if you want to put your camera closer to the target. We ship our system with a fairly powerful little telephoto lens installed. With this stock lens you get about a 5 foot wide field of view when your camera is 18-20 feet away from the target. If you wanted to put your camera closer and still have the same 5 foot wide field of view you could use one of the less powerful telephotos. These lenses simply screw in in about 15 seconds and are also cheap at only $10 ea. We usually send 2 lenses with each unit but from what we are hearing almost everyone is using the stronger one so we'll probably stop doing that. These are commonly referred to as "M12" lenses and available for GoPro and lots of other small cameras if anyone wants to experiment with different ones.

Shooting the camera is a concern but with it mounted 20 feet away and off to one side it's not that likely. We will rebuild it for cost if it does happen.
 
If you spoke to so few people at SHOT that you remembered them all, you would have not had a very successful show. LOL Good luck with your launch.
 
I would suggest the Bushnell Legend Ultra 20-60 x80 (45 degree). It has a Bullet Proof Guarantee which gets your money no questions asked for any reason. Bushnell has recently uped the bar, so you have nothing to lose. Just a suggestion.
 
TahoeRider said:
Hey Don and others, this is Keith, owner/designer of the TargetCam www.TargetCam.net. I'd like to offer our product to you because you are describing exactly what it is designed for - seeing shots on target at over 600 yards. Spotting scopes, even the top of the line $3k Kowas and Swarovskis, won't be able to at over 500 or so, even less with a hot days mirage.

We also have some pretty amazing things planned for our product in the near future. Can't tell you about this just yet (classified, if I told you I'd have to...well, you know...). I've designed our current product so that these enhanced capabilities can be retrofitted once we release them.

Drop me a line or email any time with questions about our product or to place an order. We are getting significant order flow and we haven't even started advertising yet so let me know asap. As of now we also offer Hide members a $70 discount.

Keith Averill
Click to expand...

Keith That really looks like what I need. I'll be in touch in a month or two.
 
What good is posting a video if it's private and can't be viewed?:confused:

I guess I'll not be selling my Tasco 9TE that has a 175 power.
 
I have used Kowa TSN885 and Zen-Ray ED2 at 60x. NOne of them can pick up a bullet hole at 800 yards. It probably exceeds the optical resolution of the spotting scope. One of my astronomy friend told me that I need a 10 inch telescope to see that.
 
Pleistarchus said:
I would suggest the Bushnell Legend Ultra 20-60 x80 (45 degree). It has a Bullet Proof Guarantee which gets your money no questions asked for any reason. Bushnell has recently uped the bar, so you have nothing to lose. Just a suggestion.
Click to expand...

I agree that is a good spotter for the money.

I also agree that no spotting scope on the market is going to resolve holes at 1000 yards or even 600 yards.

The target cam is a great idea.

How do I know? Because last time I shot at 400 and was unable to spot past 300 with the mirage, I came up with that very idea. Later that day I read here at the Hide that there was already such a device.

Joe
 
$850 is a pretty amazing deal for that system. I work in film/TV and a basic wireless video system with no monitor is around $1,600. Those systems have low latency and probably much higher res...but still.
 
Just wanted to say that a bright orange plate is much easier to see out at 600+ yards, and whatever you do, do not use a dark color on them, like blue or even red..... White can be a pain to see as well.
 
if your shooting steel make sure you paint that steel then you should be able to see the 308 hits at 600 on steel I could , just not on paper and even 12 year old eyes could not make out the wholes of a 224 at 600 I am switching to a shot cam https://www.shootingmadeeasy.com/bullseye-cams/ around 500 to 600 for that reason Its good up to a mile , have seen videos of a telescope watching a hiker with a back 2 dogs at 2 miles
pricing on that is around 600 . maybe less another option how ever you go good luck . and that's only the 5's the 8's should be even better
 
I think even with an incredible telescope, that seeing bullet holes at 1000 yards along a line of sight that is close to the ground would only be possible in the driest mirage free environments.

From my experience, there is no substitute for good glass, but it will not show you what it cannot see due to stuff in the air.

When the target is awash with mirage, nothing is going to make that go away.

If you happen to live in a dry area, maybe you'll get the most of it, but what you are asking for is a lot.

There are a few optics that are produced to a standard that is better than the human eye can actually resolve, so you'll want to look into the manufacturing standard.

I would avoid the temptation to save money on this project as with optics you will get what you pay for and if it is worth more it will cost more. Personally I would not go near Vortex even their HD line... I would look at Swarovski, Lieca, Zeiss and high end Kowa with Flourite lenses.

There's an excellent dealer in Ontario who stocks all of the top brands for birders who frequent the nearby provincial park called Pelee Wings. All the Canadian long range shooters shop there. You should give them a call.. http://www.peleewings.ca/store.php?categoryID=6

Id start with a Kowa TSN-884 Prominar and see what compares to that.

I think what you really want is an acoustic system with WiFi like this https://www.silvermountaintargets.com/ or this https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/6/2/electronic-targets-coming-to-a-range-near-you
 
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