Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

[Lexington]

I plan to take a course from one of the trainers on this board, and I'm sure my question will be answered at that time if I don't find it sooner.

I'm looking to buy a spotting scope, and of course there are several that have mil-dot/hash reticles, and many more that have no reticle at all.

If I were shooting alone, I can see how I could use a spotting scope without a reticle, since I can remember my sight picture from the shot and can adjust based on that. But in the case where I am working in tandem as a shooter/spotter pair (which I've never done), how do I tell the shooter how to adjust the shot when my view of the target is through a non-reticle spotting scope?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

There are a couple of ways. Probably the easiest is to base your spot on the target dimensions, either the width or the height. "Adjust your point of aim half the width of the target to the right," say, or "Come up one-quarter of the height of the target."

Also, if you know the size of the target, you can use that to give the shooter a spot. If you see an impact just off the left edge of a target which is 12 inches wide, you could say, "Adjust your point of aim 6 inches to the right."

 

[DP425]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

Easy- well... sort of.

You watch for other indicators of shot placement- trace (the air disturbance left by the bullet- set spotter to 18-20x, focused 2/3 of the distance to the target to best see it)... Or make calls based on bullet splash. These two are a game of estimation. It takes a pretty good amount of practice, and some natural talent to accurately call corrections without a reticle and viewable impact.

Learn to call based on trace- it's your friend. More often you will be able to see trace than you'll be able to see point of impact... and often a reticle is of no value when calling based off trace- due to environment and target area lay-out, the trace will nearly disappear from your vision before the bullet impacts the target. There for you have to be accustom to extrapolating aprox. impact based off the trajectory you observed rather than following it to impact.


My advise- take the class, then find a friend who's local and shoot a TON. It is the only way to learn it; through experience/trial and error

 

[DP425]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a couple of ways. Probably the easiest is to base your spot on the target dimensions, either the width or the height. "Adjust your point of aim half the width of the target to the right," say, or "Come up one-quarter of the height of the target."

Also, if you know the size of the target, you can use that to give the shooter a spot. If you see an impact just off the left edge of a target which is 12 inches wide, you could say, "Adjust your point of aim 6 inches to the right."
</div></div>

this too!

If using holds and you can spot the impacts or determine aprox location of impact you can call "favor left" or "hold left" or "left edge" (those calls being progressively further left- think 1/3, 2/3 and left edge)

 

[Lexington]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

Thanks guys. The class says to bring a spotting scope if I have one. I want to get one now so I don't have to borrow one or show up under-equipped, but perhaps waiting is better until I understand exactly how to use it and figure what will be best for me. Equipment-wise, I have everything else.

Again, thanks for the lesson in advance.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

Like the others have mentioned we've nearly always called misses based on target size. Some shooters like MOA, some like MIL, but if you are staring at the target thru a scope and your spotter says you are 1 full plate off the right edge then it's pretty darn easy to hold off or let them do the calculations themselves based on target size if known. If target size is unknown and they have hash marks in their scope it's easy for them to see which mark falls where you said the miss went. Takes a bit of practice and might not be the "correct" way of doing it but is pretty accurate even at extreme distances.

Someone mentioned watching the trace, that is helpful seeing it come in but we've seen numerous bad calls based on where the spotter saw the last bit of trace. It will give you an idea of where to keep close watch around a particular area of the target but when it's arching in and appears just above the target before it disappears a spotter might call high but it probably went just under it. Takes a lot of time to be a good spotter and also to be able to admit when you didn't see it rather than give a call based on a guess.

Good communication between spotter and shooter and establishing an understanding of what each would like and what the other can give will really help at a match. With the guns we shoot at the long range matchs we depend 100% on what the spotter tells us whether it be a hit or miss and we will adjust accordingly. We'll never see our impacts so we do try to get an experienced spotter to help us in bad conditions. With proper technique most all rifle shooters will be able to see where their bullet goes and you'll most likely verify what he will see.

Good luck, don't get too upset if you don't give exact calls right off. Learn to be observant of the area around the target for any movements such as leaf/dirt/grass or a twig falling that will help place their hits or misses. The hardest call you'll have is the close misses. Did it go high, just left or just under it when you see dirt jump right behind the target. The way a target shakes or pivots will also give a clue as to where the hit might of been if it's got all the paint knocked off.

At our 1000 yard matches I try to get everyone on our squad to share in the spotting. I feel you owe it to yourself and others you shoot with to learn to be a good spotter since you are part of the team or group. If you don't want to learn to spot or help being a spotter during a match then don't expect someone to always be ready to jump behind a scope to spot your shots. It's a 2 way street. I try to have one experienced spotter and one other to back them up. The less experienced spotter can learn a lot that way by comparing what he sees with what the more experienced spotter calls. Only way to learn is by doing.

And before anyone asks... YUP we all will make a bad call on a shot. All we can do is base it on what we see and past experience. Ya gotta trust your spotter unless you can see every one of your own shots.

Topstrap

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

Call the instructor. If a spotter is not mandatory, I would wait to get one once you know what you want. At best, half the class is shooting and half is spotting, so not everyone needs their own spotter. In a lot of cases, you can just use the scope on your rifle, too. In some situations, that actually works best.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Spotting without reticle-based spotting scope

Some really good comments on this issue - thanks to all the feedback guys. I learned a good bit.

One thing that I would emphasize is practice. Spotting and correctly adjusting IS TOUGHER than actually pulling the trigger. A good spotter is worth his weight in gold.

One thing that I do is spot and score at a local fun match I go to every month. So I shoot 1 relay and then end up spotting 4 or 5 relays, spotting and scoring for 3 to 4 shooters per relay. This has helped me a ton, both being able to see and adjust and also communicate that to a shooter I may have never meet before. With practice, your eyes, brain and mouth start working together much easier and quicker. So any time you are out shooting with some one else, practice spotting! Its the friendly thing to do, plus you get value out of it as well.

And don't go cheapo on your spotting scope. Save up your funds and get something good rather than buying some hazy junk on Midway.