I was reading the US Optic Versus new SS HD thread and I didn't want to tread on someone elses topic and for some this may be a boring read.....I'll to try to keep it less than "article" length but I'm long winded at times.
I have never had the privledge of owning a US Optic or the new SS HD yet.
A few years back(5 maybe)? I was researching optics....I had a Leupold 4.5x 14 but I needed a scope to put on a student "mule gun". I had built a simple LTR by truing and blueing with a trigger job here at my home shop. At the time I was getting military recruits who had signed on and where doing PT with their recruiters. For obvious reasons the recruiters can't do more than PT and alot of new recruits have zero to limited firearms experience some are just plain scared. I also had classes for enlisted guys who wanted to move up and try to enter the Spec Forces community or get the ticket Sniper School and have that be their MOS.
I had heard about the SS's, researched them and then found some with "more" options. These were the "true" SS scopes being made still by Tasco......not the new "cheaper" SS by SWFA.
I contacted SWFA and got ahold of Chris and told him I thought I smelled fraud and did they have a "bounty hunter" program jokingly I asked because I was looking for a reward....just kidding of course. Chris said "yes we do" whats your address and what is all the contact info you have on the fraud....I turned the emails and photo's over to Chris this person "company" was using the SS logo as well as Tasco material. 2 days later........big box from UPS....shirts, koozies, lenses brushes, the little lens wipe things...stickers, posters and tons of gear with a thank you note.
I had to have one of these scopes now......I find a used one that by all I can tell was 100% brand new unmounted......got it for $250 I think. I loved the scope I thought it was going to be a "teaching scope" read-throw away. But I loved it.
I got ahold of Chris a couple months later(I did email him a thank you for all of the free gear upon receipt) and I told Chris how much I loved the scope and how well it held up. I had no complaints.......for that price and quality I could not gripe. Chris asked me for the serial number......he said "that scope is about 9 months old.......we have alot better knobs now....they turn easier and have more positive clicks. I want you to have the new model." I didn't really want to pay extra cash or go without this scope because Chris said "I'll take that one on trade" Well again 2 days later UPS shows up...brand new SS inside with a return label to ship mine back to SWFA!!!!! Free!! I loved this one even more.
This scope was frozen in a block of ice, removed then boiled in a pot for 15 minutes, buried in a sandbox dropped from a roof etc etc. ALWAYS worked perfectly....the glass was in my opinion just a touch behind my Mark 4, just a tad more than a touch at real lowlight,,,,most novices couldn't tell. But for Bright light including shooting directly into the sun......the SS was great..on my trade in...Chris sent me sunshades and the ARD. Then to try it Chris hooked me up with a 16x and all of accessories.
Besides he control tests my novice students hammered the scope on the lightweight 308. I had a young lady who was small and gun scared but had mastered the operation of a Colt HBAR and she wanted to try the 308 because all the guys were. I taught my students to shoot outside of a range using combat positions and natural cover. The young lady pressed the trigger....screamed and dropped and have way pitched the LTR down a boulder covered cliff. She got a good 6 feet of distance like it was a hot potato........it hit every boulder on the way down......some as big as my truck. It was so steep and so far down one student who was a shooter said "boss you should just leave it.....the whole unit is history". I figured the scope was done but I believed the rifle at least had some value in parts. I had a truck and rope so I had a student that of course was made a tunnel rat in the desert....5'6" 135lbs and could climb like a monkey....competive rock climber. he took my offer of the rope and truck hookup. The scope was scratched but otherwise perfect. The LTR stood up too and hats off to the Burris tactical rings........best $50 rings anywhere.
Anyway I was also a K9 handler......I've been shot twice so it was natural I was asked to bring my dog and go visit a local University Hospital treating injured combat vets. Now I was shot twice......real minor......these guys had lost limbs, digetive systems, some were so disfigured I had to hold back from turning away....faces more than 1/2 gone. Thank god for Charlie(my dog) he was combat vet too and he made it comfortable for everyone and the guys loved him. After talking to these guys alot of them loved shooting and hunting so I started bringing in all of my old magazines for them to read. Then I brought in the posters that Chris had sent me. Next visit the posters were up and a couple guys had seen SS scopes in combat.......on SAWS and Barrett 50's. The posters were up.
Chris and I had stayed in contact.....we talked rifles and deer hunting. I could hunt out of my front door...literally and Texas is almost all private land. Hunting is a big expense and business down there. We used to watch the same hunting show...at the end of every show they show you a deer rack and you email in your guessed score. The winner gets a hat and knife. I won the first time we talked about watching the show, Chris would send me pics of some of his deer to test my skill etc etc. (Chris the show doesn't broadcast here anymore but that year I won 3 more times and I only saw 7-8 more episodes...they said they "ran out of knives" so all I got was hats after the first couple.
Anyway we spoke of the guys at the hospital.......3 HUGE boxes show up from UPS. Tons of swag, tons of t-shirts and posters and koozies and whatever else. All for the guys at the hospital. The whole wing had SS t-shirts. Chris never sent brochures or business cards.......no plugs at all. He just said let me know if you need more shirts.
(my wife says I do....some of the camo colored ones look like mess now I have washed them so much.....but the black ones hold up and look like new.........anyone else experience this?)
Well good will and not to mention good products cause the "what comes around goes around" effect. I started getting alot of emails from my students who had been deployed...alot of them had asked their parents and loved for SS scopes for Christmas and wanted them shipped to the sandbox. I took a couple of the guys from the hospital out hunting on a handicapable type hunt.....it was hard because this country is real rough if you want to see deer. But artificle limbs and all.......these guys are still harcore. Guess what was mounted on their sticks?? Yep SS's? When some of my students got their SS scopes other guys in their units put them on their wish list or used their own combat pay. I don't know how some of those guys shot those scopes on a carry handle with no cheek pieces but they loved the setup. Another former student was crushed because he was a Marine........he was not allowed to change his gear......issued gear only. But 2 years later he sends me an email with a pic of him and trophy at a rifle match......SS on his weapon.
In our talks Chris and I oten discussed hunting. It made me think all of these guys put tons of money into hunting...its their passion. Even with all the public land in the NW here alot of guys only have a job to support their hunting habit. They have trail cams, sent, calls and custom trucks and 4 wheelers. But they have on the norm average rifles and cheap Bushnell scopes. They spend $3000 on IR and thermal trail cams but buy a $99 Bushnell with a Duplex reticle and they complain that it fogs up. So many really good hunters when arriving at a hunting location test fire their weapons to assure zero had held..........from a 50 mile car ride?? All the scent and camo and scent hiding clothing and then you touch off 3 rounds upon arrival??? So I wrote an article about the SS scope for now not published Pac NW hunting rag.......it come out monthly in a newspaper type format. The article was hunting optics, and it ran in 3 pieces. In a nutshell durabilty, quality and holding zero was one piece. Followed by hunters spending so much money and then buying a cheap scope that is bad in lowlight, bad in the wet weather(like all hunting season up here) and has poor eye relief. The 3rd part was hunters learning mil-dots........ranging game........some guys didn't now people turned a scopes turrets other than sighting it in and in general why hunters should use more than 1 box of ammo a year. You watch these hunting shows and 250 yards is max range for so many hunters EVEN the show hosts who hunt for a living on TV. Just a month or so ago the hunting show with a rich guy and co-host Jeff Foxworthy had the Navy Seal who is a motivational speaker and wrote a best seller(my wife didn't get it for me and it was on my Christmas list) Anyway this guy was the real "last man standing" he was the only seal to make it back from a mission that costs alot of seals their lives. This guy was in a tall Texas stand and a dear was 500 plus yards away........the host says "thats way to fair" the Seal "I can make that shot"......the host was in such disbelief the Seal could make that shot(it looked like he had the Savage 308 with Choate stock) that the host said if there was a doe down there I'd let you shoot her just to see if you could do it??? WTF??? The host admitted his top end range was 3oo yards with a good rest.
Anyway shortly after this time I my body started falling apart...lost about 80 use of my right arm after numerous shoulder surgeries and lost alot of sensation in my hand also. HMO's don't really cover specialist care very well. Anyway I had to sell all of guns and even the gun safe...I kept a sidearm for home defense. I haven't fired a rifle since.....but I am about to start
Medical bills are thinning out and I am trying to scrounge parts to build myself a stick.
Long story long.......I haven't seen the SS HD.......but if its better than the old version its worth the $$$. NOBODY will stand behind their product like Chris and crew do for the SS.
Personally for my shooting I wish they had a 2.5-12x or a 4-16x or something. I like having more than 10x but also like the low power option. But if I went 10x fixed it would be tough to beat the SS.
Chris if you are reading this
1. Can the new HD version have the old version SS turrets...not sure if I like the knobs on the new ones....I tested an early Bushnell tactical and it had similar looking knobs that I didn't care for.
2. I read a review in some gun magazine about the new SS HD. And the author kept calling it a Tasco scope and that Tasco is know for lower end scopes etc etc. He had some question he couldn't figure out so he pulled out the instructions and called the people at TASCO and they politely asnwered all of his questions???
Are you still shipping these great scopes with those old Tasco fliers inside?
Don't tell me you had time to develop these new scope but not a new manual Did Tasco really help this guy or did he call SWFA and think it was Tasco the whole time??
Buddy if you need help working up a new manual to ship with your SS scopes please let me know. I'll do it for free...least I can do. I'll even have a hundred or so printed up on my own dime.
To me their is no reason to buy any other $300 scope in the whole world. And I am sure that the HD 10x is at the top of the heap of fixed power scopes at that price point. Plus buying manufacturer direct is hard to beat.
Sorry for the length and rambling but I warned you......and it turned into a shameless SWFA plug....sorry.
Derek
I have never had the privledge of owning a US Optic or the new SS HD yet.
A few years back(5 maybe)? I was researching optics....I had a Leupold 4.5x 14 but I needed a scope to put on a student "mule gun". I had built a simple LTR by truing and blueing with a trigger job here at my home shop. At the time I was getting military recruits who had signed on and where doing PT with their recruiters. For obvious reasons the recruiters can't do more than PT and alot of new recruits have zero to limited firearms experience some are just plain scared. I also had classes for enlisted guys who wanted to move up and try to enter the Spec Forces community or get the ticket Sniper School and have that be their MOS.
I had heard about the SS's, researched them and then found some with "more" options. These were the "true" SS scopes being made still by Tasco......not the new "cheaper" SS by SWFA.
I contacted SWFA and got ahold of Chris and told him I thought I smelled fraud and did they have a "bounty hunter" program jokingly I asked because I was looking for a reward....just kidding of course. Chris said "yes we do" whats your address and what is all the contact info you have on the fraud....I turned the emails and photo's over to Chris this person "company" was using the SS logo as well as Tasco material. 2 days later........big box from UPS....shirts, koozies, lenses brushes, the little lens wipe things...stickers, posters and tons of gear with a thank you note.
I had to have one of these scopes now......I find a used one that by all I can tell was 100% brand new unmounted......got it for $250 I think. I loved the scope I thought it was going to be a "teaching scope" read-throw away. But I loved it.
I got ahold of Chris a couple months later(I did email him a thank you for all of the free gear upon receipt) and I told Chris how much I loved the scope and how well it held up. I had no complaints.......for that price and quality I could not gripe. Chris asked me for the serial number......he said "that scope is about 9 months old.......we have alot better knobs now....they turn easier and have more positive clicks. I want you to have the new model." I didn't really want to pay extra cash or go without this scope because Chris said "I'll take that one on trade" Well again 2 days later UPS shows up...brand new SS inside with a return label to ship mine back to SWFA!!!!! Free!! I loved this one even more.
This scope was frozen in a block of ice, removed then boiled in a pot for 15 minutes, buried in a sandbox dropped from a roof etc etc. ALWAYS worked perfectly....the glass was in my opinion just a touch behind my Mark 4, just a tad more than a touch at real lowlight,,,,most novices couldn't tell. But for Bright light including shooting directly into the sun......the SS was great..on my trade in...Chris sent me sunshades and the ARD. Then to try it Chris hooked me up with a 16x and all of accessories.
Besides he control tests my novice students hammered the scope on the lightweight 308. I had a young lady who was small and gun scared but had mastered the operation of a Colt HBAR and she wanted to try the 308 because all the guys were. I taught my students to shoot outside of a range using combat positions and natural cover. The young lady pressed the trigger....screamed and dropped and have way pitched the LTR down a boulder covered cliff. She got a good 6 feet of distance like it was a hot potato........it hit every boulder on the way down......some as big as my truck. It was so steep and so far down one student who was a shooter said "boss you should just leave it.....the whole unit is history". I figured the scope was done but I believed the rifle at least had some value in parts. I had a truck and rope so I had a student that of course was made a tunnel rat in the desert....5'6" 135lbs and could climb like a monkey....competive rock climber. he took my offer of the rope and truck hookup. The scope was scratched but otherwise perfect. The LTR stood up too and hats off to the Burris tactical rings........best $50 rings anywhere.
Anyway I was also a K9 handler......I've been shot twice so it was natural I was asked to bring my dog and go visit a local University Hospital treating injured combat vets. Now I was shot twice......real minor......these guys had lost limbs, digetive systems, some were so disfigured I had to hold back from turning away....faces more than 1/2 gone. Thank god for Charlie(my dog) he was combat vet too and he made it comfortable for everyone and the guys loved him. After talking to these guys alot of them loved shooting and hunting so I started bringing in all of my old magazines for them to read. Then I brought in the posters that Chris had sent me. Next visit the posters were up and a couple guys had seen SS scopes in combat.......on SAWS and Barrett 50's. The posters were up.
Chris and I had stayed in contact.....we talked rifles and deer hunting. I could hunt out of my front door...literally and Texas is almost all private land. Hunting is a big expense and business down there. We used to watch the same hunting show...at the end of every show they show you a deer rack and you email in your guessed score. The winner gets a hat and knife. I won the first time we talked about watching the show, Chris would send me pics of some of his deer to test my skill etc etc. (Chris the show doesn't broadcast here anymore but that year I won 3 more times and I only saw 7-8 more episodes...they said they "ran out of knives" so all I got was hats after the first couple.
Anyway we spoke of the guys at the hospital.......3 HUGE boxes show up from UPS. Tons of swag, tons of t-shirts and posters and koozies and whatever else. All for the guys at the hospital. The whole wing had SS t-shirts. Chris never sent brochures or business cards.......no plugs at all. He just said let me know if you need more shirts.
(my wife says I do....some of the camo colored ones look like mess now I have washed them so much.....but the black ones hold up and look like new.........anyone else experience this?)
Well good will and not to mention good products cause the "what comes around goes around" effect. I started getting alot of emails from my students who had been deployed...alot of them had asked their parents and loved for SS scopes for Christmas and wanted them shipped to the sandbox. I took a couple of the guys from the hospital out hunting on a handicapable type hunt.....it was hard because this country is real rough if you want to see deer. But artificle limbs and all.......these guys are still harcore. Guess what was mounted on their sticks?? Yep SS's? When some of my students got their SS scopes other guys in their units put them on their wish list or used their own combat pay. I don't know how some of those guys shot those scopes on a carry handle with no cheek pieces but they loved the setup. Another former student was crushed because he was a Marine........he was not allowed to change his gear......issued gear only. But 2 years later he sends me an email with a pic of him and trophy at a rifle match......SS on his weapon.
In our talks Chris and I oten discussed hunting. It made me think all of these guys put tons of money into hunting...its their passion. Even with all the public land in the NW here alot of guys only have a job to support their hunting habit. They have trail cams, sent, calls and custom trucks and 4 wheelers. But they have on the norm average rifles and cheap Bushnell scopes. They spend $3000 on IR and thermal trail cams but buy a $99 Bushnell with a Duplex reticle and they complain that it fogs up. So many really good hunters when arriving at a hunting location test fire their weapons to assure zero had held..........from a 50 mile car ride?? All the scent and camo and scent hiding clothing and then you touch off 3 rounds upon arrival??? So I wrote an article about the SS scope for now not published Pac NW hunting rag.......it come out monthly in a newspaper type format. The article was hunting optics, and it ran in 3 pieces. In a nutshell durabilty, quality and holding zero was one piece. Followed by hunters spending so much money and then buying a cheap scope that is bad in lowlight, bad in the wet weather(like all hunting season up here) and has poor eye relief. The 3rd part was hunters learning mil-dots........ranging game........some guys didn't now people turned a scopes turrets other than sighting it in and in general why hunters should use more than 1 box of ammo a year. You watch these hunting shows and 250 yards is max range for so many hunters EVEN the show hosts who hunt for a living on TV. Just a month or so ago the hunting show with a rich guy and co-host Jeff Foxworthy had the Navy Seal who is a motivational speaker and wrote a best seller(my wife didn't get it for me and it was on my Christmas list) Anyway this guy was the real "last man standing" he was the only seal to make it back from a mission that costs alot of seals their lives. This guy was in a tall Texas stand and a dear was 500 plus yards away........the host says "thats way to fair" the Seal "I can make that shot"......the host was in such disbelief the Seal could make that shot(it looked like he had the Savage 308 with Choate stock) that the host said if there was a doe down there I'd let you shoot her just to see if you could do it??? WTF??? The host admitted his top end range was 3oo yards with a good rest.
Anyway shortly after this time I my body started falling apart...lost about 80 use of my right arm after numerous shoulder surgeries and lost alot of sensation in my hand also. HMO's don't really cover specialist care very well. Anyway I had to sell all of guns and even the gun safe...I kept a sidearm for home defense. I haven't fired a rifle since.....but I am about to start
Long story long.......I haven't seen the SS HD.......but if its better than the old version its worth the $$$. NOBODY will stand behind their product like Chris and crew do for the SS.
Personally for my shooting I wish they had a 2.5-12x or a 4-16x or something. I like having more than 10x but also like the low power option. But if I went 10x fixed it would be tough to beat the SS.
Chris if you are reading this
1. Can the new HD version have the old version SS turrets...not sure if I like the knobs on the new ones....I tested an early Bushnell tactical and it had similar looking knobs that I didn't care for.
2. I read a review in some gun magazine about the new SS HD. And the author kept calling it a Tasco scope and that Tasco is know for lower end scopes etc etc. He had some question he couldn't figure out so he pulled out the instructions and called the people at TASCO and they politely asnwered all of his questions???
Are you still shipping these great scopes with those old Tasco fliers inside?
Don't tell me you had time to develop these new scope but not a new manual Buddy if you need help working up a new manual to ship with your SS scopes please let me know. I'll do it for free...least I can do. I'll even have a hundred or so printed up on my own dime.
To me their is no reason to buy any other $300 scope in the whole world. And I am sure that the HD 10x is at the top of the heap of fixed power scopes at that price point. Plus buying manufacturer direct is hard to beat.
Sorry for the length and rambling but I warned you......and it turned into a shameless SWFA plug....sorry.
Derek
