- Thread starter skoal3
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They’re selling enough to stay in business, doubt a few dozen sales here and there keep the lights on. There is a market for light durable ffp mil hunting scopes. Especially one that holds zero under some use and abuse.
This is where a reticle specifically designed for crossover use in a FFP optic can really "make it or break it". Bushnell was on to something with their LRHS, but a string of unfortunate events occurred that I believe hindered that scope from gaining wider acceptance. The G2H reticle was brilliant, with the circle of death definitely helping when on low magnification, I'd love to see more manufacturers offer this as an option, many of them already do this with LPVO scopes they just need to realize a similar design could really help out for certain users in other scope models. While the LRHS was an exceptional optical performer when released, it came at a time when many users were looking at 5x and sometimes 6x erectors, it was also a time where long scopes were becoming a passing phase and the new ultra shorts were getting all the buzz. I think those last two items were really what caused the demise of the LRHS/LRTS series of scopes. But some scopes simply went too short (the Eotech 5-25 comes to mind). With the continued expansion within the thermal clipon world there is definitely a place for the "short scope" but I still think there is a place for not too short but not too long, find the happy medium so to speak which still offers some clipon opportunity without compromising too much on how forgiving the scope is. I think the Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 may have found that happy medium, but now the big question is what will the final design of the FFP Mil reticle be, some early reports at SHOT were encouraging but if the design is simply a modified SCR2 reticle I am concerned about it's usability at 2x. This is the biggest complaint by far from the hunting community when it comes to FFP scopes, they do not find the reticle usable at lower mags and I get that and I'm surprised it has taken manufacturers this long to figure this out. If you're going to put in something like an SCR2 reticle then it needs to be usable at the bottom in varying conditions, this can sometimes be solved by bright illumination but also can be solved with a circle of death type of feature.
100% nailed it. I’ve been waiting for years for someone to get it right, in the meantime I keep grabbing the 3-12 LRTSi/LRHS when they pop up. It’s beyond frustrating at this point.
Not being able to keep to them in stock means nothing if you don't know how many they are getting in at a time.
SWFA can't keep their scopes in stock and have huge back orders, not because they sell 20,000 a year but because they haven't been getting regular shipments.
From Maven, sounds like they are pretty popular and there is a market for them however “niche” it may be. I’m not trying to prove sales numbers or argue 1” tube bdc whitetail scopes don’t drive a large demand. But there are plenty of people wanting a light durable ffp mil optic for hunting. Emphasis on durable
Maven selling 200 or 300 (which is the usual MOQ) RS1.2 scopes doesn't mean someone like Vortex or Nightforce is going to invest into R&D for a product that will need to sell 1000's a year for them to make it worth their while.
It will be interesting to see if it continues to sell in such large numbers, as I imagine a huge amount of sales are coming from Rokslide members who watch the drop tests. Once they've bought the couple of scopes they need will sales drop off of while they continue to climb?
My prediction is they will taper off.
We are actually on the same page, their is indeed a niche market for scopes of this type but no one really knows how big that market is.
I'd imagine it is relatively small, as if Bushnell were receiving hundreds of emails a week asking for the LRHS 3-12 to come back then they could easily do it. The fact they haven't and even GAP haven't bought but a 3-12 LRHS2 indicates this market is very very small.
I still think manufacturers could easily make "Tactical" scopes that cater to this market, I even think competition scopes (PRS/NRL etc) would benefit from thicker FFP reticles. Maybe there will be a trend back in this direction? Who knows.
That is encouraging to hear, especially since Maven started out with SFP scopes. They must have found a good formula.
I very much agree with your observations. I only compared it to Leupold for reference. Thanks for taking to explain even further.
Some poor marketing there by Burris. Don’t think there’s much of a following for the Veracity line in long range circles. i think that’s why Vortex has success with the PST and Razor LHT lines. They started as FFP mil/mil long range scopes and then added lighter more hunting/crossover oriented scopes. I don’t know anything about Veracity and don’t know anyone who does either. (And I own and like Burris scopes!)
Now if Burris came out with an XTR offshoot, like an XTR-H for hunting or XTR-L for lightweight, they could update the XTRII 2-10 and people would buy it.
Also, what is not being taken into account is that the long range crowd leads the way on much of this stuff and the “rank and file hunters” often follow. I have several friends who never shoot past 200 yards who ask me what scope to buy for their hunting rifles. We talk about FFP vs SFP, MIL vs MOA, dialing vs hold over. Even though they may not regularly shoot past 200 yards, they all plan to hunt elk, caribou, antelope someday and want to be capable. So the companies who cater to the long range crowd with 5-25/7-35 PRS scopes and also offer lighter FFP/MPVO mil/mil hunting scopes will rule the market in 3-5 years. Just my $.02.
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I have the T6Xi 1-6 and the illumination is good. Though I understand being an LPVO with a different reticle that may be considered apples and oranges.
I'm in the same camp. I only have a couple of moa SFP scopes left and am only buying mil FFP for all purposes.
Haha, that's an understatement.. There was zero marketing by Burris of the Veracity to long range shooters. It's a hunting scope, that was never their market. The were offering FFP/Mil/mil reticles to hunters. It didn't get much sales activity compared to their moa/BDC scope.
But I wholeheartedly agree about the XTR III. A lightweight line up would be the bomb, and I do believe there is an item or two in R&D that could be pretty popular. A nice crossover similar to the H6Xi. They have some cool stuff in the hopper.
