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Stiff bolt on open or close??

F

FootSoldier

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 29, 2008
128
0
Phoenix, Arizona
So I need some help on where to start looking?

The rifle is a new Badger M2008 chambered in .308, with about 200 rds down the tube. I am running Lapua brass, 155 Scenars, BR2 primers and 43.7grs Varget, which pushes them out at 2829fps when seated at 2.805", which is .020" off the lands.

The brass is fired once in this chamber, then resized neck-only with a .336" bushing. I typically neck-size twice, then full-length resize and trim to 2.005". The cases are annealed every 5th cycle and this brass is on the 8th cycle.

The problem is that I have a very stiff bolt opening and closing. Sometimes, opening is a hand banging experience to open the bolt.

The cases show minor primer flattening and occasionally one will show only the smallest cratering. No other visable signs of any pressure problems.

Today I ran 3 rds of FGMM ammo and shazam! The cases slide in, bolt eases closed and back open again after firing. No stiffness at all, just like butter.

My cases, loaded or not, all fall into my Dillon case guage and look to meet headspce requirements.

What am I missing? I need some help on this one...
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

you may have expanded the case head area from either firing or sizing to such a degree that it is now wider than your chamber.

I normally do not suggest this, but a small base die may indeed be in your future if you cannot size down the case enough at the bottom.


-Wil
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

If the case head size is not the problem try bumping the shoulder back a tiny bit with a body die. That seemed to help me.

Btw, how are u getting that MV with only 43.7gr Varget?
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the case head size is not the problem try bumping the shoulder back a tiny bit with a body die. That seemed to help me.

Btw, how are u getting that MV with only 43.7gr Varget?</div></div>

Which die do you use or like??
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Btw, how are u getting that MV with only 43.7gr Varget? </div></div>


I would suspect a Match chamber, which is normally tighter...
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

The barrel is a Bartlein 24" 1/11.25 5R and (my un-nameable computer program) says I am 3.9% compressed charge, because of the seating depth with the Scenar.

At least that's what I beleive is giving the velocity I am getting. Last weekend I was right on my dope with 8.5mils at 1000 yards.

I tried some of my full-length sized brass in the chamber and some neck-sized brass too. The full-length lets the bolt close smoothly, but the neck sized is stiff.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

I used a Hornady case guage. The one with the dummy brass and then took the measurment with 3 different bullets. After that I averaged the 3 measurements for get the distance to the lands.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSYOPS, a Dillon FL sizing die, and a RCBS bushing die for neck-only.

</div></div>

Thanks!!
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

just remember, the ogive is much different on the scenar than it is on the 175 SMK..secant vs tangent

the scenar is actually slightly longer than the 175 SMK, but engages the lands differently...

I shoot the 155 scenar almost exclusively in my .308 and I too am about .02 off the lands at 2.86... but every rifle is different and likes something different.

nothing wrong with a shorter throat, just curious about it...


I would try to adjust your sizing die to bump the shoulder back some more... if that does not work... might be time for a small base die.

good luck!
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

well you answered your post full length size the cases i full length everything it is just as accurate. you said fed GM match ammo worked flawlesly and so does full length sized brass so size your cases simple fix.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

Wil, I meant I used 3 different 155 Scenars because I figured they would be a little different from one another.

Thanks for the help.

Steve
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

Check the shoulder. I had the same problem when I was neck-only sizing my brass. I found the expander ball was dragging in the neck on the way out causing the shoulders to stretch as it pulled the neck. I had the exact same symptoms: Bolt wouldn't close. When I FL resized and bumped the shoulder back to normal, they all worked like a champ.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

Hard to open bolt--- pressure sign. load may be too hot for gun

Hard to close bolt--- neck not set back enough, trim length, OAL of loaded cartridge.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

i had the same problem with my 270. with my first loads. so i went and got the lee carbide full case sizer dies from cabelas for like 25 bucks. solved the problem. hope it helps.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hard to open bolt--- pressure sign. load may be too hot for gun

Hard to close bolt--- neck not set back enough, trim length, OAL of loaded cartridge. </div></div>


However, if it's both, it might just be the case head area getting a little large for his chamber.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My cases, loaded or not, all fall into my Dillon case guage and look to meet headspce requirements.

What am I missing? I need some help on this one...

</div></div>

You are missing the point that your chamber and the case gauge are not the same.

You should invest in a Redding competition shellholder set which allows you to control headspace of your sized brass precisely in .002" increments. It seems you have zero headspace right now with your brass and chamber combination. Forget that damn gauge. It is useless.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is a new Badger M2008 chambered in .308, with about 200 rds down the tube. I am running Lapua brass, 155 Scenars, BR2 primers and 43.7grs Varget, which pushes them out at 2829fps when seated at 2.805", which is .020" off the lands. </div></div>

I do not suspect pressure signs with only 43.7 gr Varget. However, this loading may be low enough to be very close to secondary pressure spike(s) which masquerades as primary pressure indicators.

2829 is very fast for 43.7 gr Varget. I am getting 2925-2950 with 47.8 gr Varget!! (but admittedly with a std Remmy factory chamber and long throat.)
So, I suggest that after your brass is run through the sizing die, to run it through your chamber to isolate sizing issues from loading issues.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

Does your unloaded prepped brass chamber and extract easily, if so try some Winchester brass as the neck OD might be smaller. If you have a tight neck chamber that might be the culprit. I have been down that road B4............
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good points...


There may be a slight bulging on the shoulder from seating???

</div></div>

This is why I body size all my rounds... so I don't have to deal with these questions.

I guess every little bit adds up. A little bulge here and there and pretty soon you can't close the bolt.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

No crimp. I tried some FL sized FC brass and the bolt closes and opens smoothly. Tomorrow I am going to try shooting some loads at 43.4 and 43.7 from FL sized brass to see what I get.

My velocities are measured with a Shooting Chrony, so I am sure there may be some questionable data, but my dope works out right at 1000 yards based on the Sierra Ballistics program. I tested to 1000 last week and 8.5mils was right on.

Thanks to everyone for the help!
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

Update; I shot 25 rds with FL sized brass today and had no problems with bolt open or closing. I my need a body die to bump the shoulders when I neck size, or I'll just go back to FL sizing.

I don't think I'll sacrifice that much brass life in going with FL sizing?
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSYOPS, a Dillon FL sizing die, and a RCBS bushing die for neck-only.

</div></div>

What size bushing?? Thanks.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think I'll sacrifice that much brass life in going with FL sizing? </div></div>

Get a Redding body die. Use it to bump the shoulder and use your neck die to size the neck.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSYOPS, a Dillon FL sizing die, and a RCBS bushing die for neck-only.

</div></div>

What size bushing?? Thanks. </div></div>

PSYOPS, I got a .335 and .336 bushing. I prefer the .336" bushing.
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FootSoldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think I'll sacrifice that much brass life in going with FL sizing? </div></div>

Get a Redding body die. Use it to bump the shoulder and use your neck die to size the neck. </div></div>

918v, what's the process? Bump the shoulder first, then do the neck, or the other way around?
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

I bump the shoulder, then do the neck. But I've done it in reverse with the same results (runout-wise).
 
Re: Stiff bolt on open or close??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bump the shoulder, then do the neck. But I've done it in reverse with the same results (runout-wise).</div></div>

Thanks...you guys are great!! Love the Hide.
 
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