Gunsmithing Stock barrel after truing action?

[hyena74]

Is it possible to have the action trued on a 700 and then use the stock barrel afterwards?

What I'm wanting to do is get the action trued, then have a badger recoil lug installed, and have the stock barrel set back, rechambered and recrowned.

Can this be done or would I need a new barrel to make the threaded chamber end larger in diameter if the threaded part of the action needs to be enlarged to have threads recut?

Thanks

 

[ridgeway]

It can certainly be done, but why would you? You will gain absolutely nothing by doing the action work and then stick the same crummy factory barrelback on. I'd definitely save up another $300-$350 and use a high quality barrel. In the meantime, shoot what you have.

 

[hyena74]

It can certainly be done, but why would you? You will gain absolutely nothing by doing the action work and then stick the same crummy factory barrelback on. I'd definitely save up another $300-$350 and use a high quality barrel. In the meantime, shoot what you have.

I was wondering because I don't know much about the truing process. I thought the action threads for the barrel would need to be opened up to make true. If this were correct and the barrel threads trued and made smaller I'm not sure how it could work...unless you set the barrel way way back far enough to get rid of all the old threads.

But to the remington factory barrel, I just read an article about the tac ops tune up and they were getting awesome performance with the factory barrel.

They said they wouldn't work on the ltr barrel though, which is what I have and I'm not sure of the reason?

 

[bogeybrown]

I have a trued/blueprinted Remmy with the factory barrel put back on it. I didnt' do the Badger lug but it works just fine. I could have put an aftermarket barrel on it, but figured it was a waste to chuck away a serviceable barrel just because it wasn't "custom". I had it cut down, threaded, and crowned and it shoots great. If I ever shoot it out then I'll replace it with a Bartlein, but since that rifle hardly gets shot at all anymore, the Remmy barrel is fine on it.

 

[STR]

First, how does the rifle shoot now, and have you tried to improve that with hand loading? The quality of the barrel has more to do with accuracy than truing the action. Truing means different things to different folks. Tuning up an action doesn't include recutting the factory threads, just facing the action where it contacts the barrel, and getting equal contact on the lugs by which ever way they do it. That could be by lapping, or recutting the action locking abutments. This will decrease the ability of the bolt to extract a spent casing, just a little bit.

Also, what stock is it in, and is it bedded, or have a bedding block such as the H&S Precision stocks, or one of the chassis systems.

To answer your question, no, the factory barrel can not be used if you're action factory threads are trued by enlarging/recutting them.

 

[Jkob60]

First, how does the rifle shoot now, and have you tried to improve that with hand loading? The quality of the barrel has more to do with accuracy than truing the action. Truing means different things to different folks. Tuning up an action doesn't include recutting the factory threads, just facing the action where it contacts the barrel, and getting equal contact on the lugs by which ever way they do it. That could be by lapping, or recutting the action locking abutments. This will decrease the ability of the bolt to extract a spent casing, just a little bit.

Also, what stock is it in, and is it bedded, or have a bedding block such as the H&S Precision stocks, or one of the chassis systems.





To answer your question, no, the factory barrel can not be used if you're action factory threads are trued by enlarging/recutting them.

You obviously have never set up one of the factory actions and witnessed How bad some are. You are wasting your money on a "truing" job if that is all you have done to it.

 

[STR]

Jkob60, you should rethink what you just said. I never said that is what I do, or have ever done. I'm not a master gun building guru, but I've built a few that do alright. Your comment suggests that I don't have an idea about Remington 700 action, and I beg to differ.

 

[Terry Cross]

"You obviously have never set up one of the factory actions and witnessed How bad some are."

Bwahahahaha..........

STR. Evidently, you had better get your gunschmidting book out and relearn a few things.

Obviously the ass load of Remys you've remachined and barreled over the years didn't teach you a thing. It must have been an accident that they all shoot crazy accurate AFTER you stumbled through what you "obviously" have never setup or witnessed. Quit being so damned hard headed and open your mind.

(Sorry. To those in this thread that have trouble discerning context and intent, this post is meant as sarcasm. My hat is always off to STR. He's the shit.)

 

[Pusher591]

You obviously have never set up one of the factory actions and witnessed How bad some are.

 

[STR]

Thanks guys!! Now off I go to do what I really know how to do, line work to keep the lights on. Have a great day to all.

 

[xringaccuracy]

Was a good laugh. Be safe Ozzie and remember the unknowing ones eventually learn. Also, talk to Tony lately?

 

[xringaccuracy]

As a follow up. The answer is no. If an action is fully trued the factory barrel may screw on but the dimensions of the action have changed. The change means the headspace will be off.

 

[jasonk]

My hat is always off to STR. He's the shit.)

STR...I would get a T-shirt printed with that quote and wear it proudly if T.C. ever spoke such kind words about my gunsmithing abilities.

 

[STR]

You have no idea how much Terry's kind words mean to me.

 

[Jkob60]

Jkob60, you should rethink what you just said. I never said that is what I do, or have ever done. I'm not a master gun building guru, but I've built a few that do alright. Your comment suggests that I don't have an idea about Remington 700 action, and I beg to differ.

Not trying to imply anything here; what I was trying to say was it ain't enuf to just face off the receiver. I have seen some of them out by .030TIR. There are some smiths out thee that consider those short steps to be a "trued" action and charge accordingly

 

[tylerw02]

Waste of money if it's shooting fine now. I'd wait until I could justify a rebarrel job. It'll be more economical then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Marky Mark at SAC and a couple of places offer a 700 SPS action that includes squaring up everything BUT the threads, IF the barrel is good enough to use. Once all of the other work is done, then the barrel is set back to proper HS and chamber recut. Works very well- IF the barrel is good enough.
IF however, it shoots well enough to begin with, bed it, handload for it and roll with it! Save your money until you can afford the good stuff and turn it into something then.

 

[STR]

Not trying to imply anything here; what I was trying to say was it ain't enuf to just face off the receiver. I have seen some of them out by .030TIR. There are some smiths out thee that consider those short steps to be a "trued" action and charge accordingly

I agree with you, and like I said before, I do the whole enchilada or I do nothing. I leave nothing to doubt. What I said is that others do part of the job and call it good. I never have from day one. I think it was just misunderstood and nothing else.

 

[LRI]

I'll chime in here with a couple kwesjunz:


Yes or no answers will suffice. What's more likely to give a positive result?



1. A super bad azz ultra prreeee cccciiiissseeee custom action made to the gillionth of a nanometer in dimensional tolerance fitted with a mediocre barrel?

2. A pawn shop Remmy, Winny, Savage, CZ, "pipe with a nail for a firing pin" action fitted with a marquee custom barrel chambered by someone who understands accurate gunmaking?


I'll lay money on #2 every time.


One can hypothesize all night on the advantages of a custom action, accurized action, etc. You put a turd barrel on it and all you got is a turd with botox and lipstick.

Smells like chit everytime you look at your paper down range too.



Does it mean accurizing (the right way) isn't important? No, it just means if your picking your battles your money ahead to spend your sheckles on a top shelf quality barrel fitted by someone with a proven pedigree in this kind of instead of exotic receiver machining.


Keep it real, lol

C.

 

[Terry Cross]

Pretty sure everybody already agrees with that.
Post #2 from Ridgeway already partially alluded to that.

* Not all factory barrels are bad and stock actions that have not been molested CAN shoot. They don't always but they can.

* Some factory barrels can shoot very well until they foul, heat up or won't shoot until they are dirty. Every one is a different beast. Shoot it enough to find it's personality and it may serve you a long, long time.

* Food for thought on one scenario with a partial re-machine (everything recut except receiver threads) ..... If all critical features of the receiver are biased off axis in the same general direction and all of those features are recut except the receiver threads, wouldn't that cause a good bit of stress once the recoil lug/barrel is torqued against the fresh receiver face? Would it make a difference?.....

And most certainly EVERYTHING is for naught if a crappy barrel resides in that assembly or if a tier 1 barrel is screwed up during the pre-install work. Everybody already agrees with that.

>>>
EVERYTHING we base our machining and work on is sound "theory". Basically the best plan of execution based on known best methods.
People post about machine size and rigidity. This is based off of sound machining basics and theory. It does make a difference and we are pretty sure why so we try to stack that into our methods of work. Some shops do excellent work with excellent results using 1000 pound machines. Why would another shop use a 5000 pound machine if the 1000 pounder gets the job done? Sound theory, speed and stacking all the little things in your favor.

We should continue to stack as many methods and sound theory into our shop choreography as possible. You can no doubt skip a couple of small details and the rifle may still shoot very well. No one would be the wiser. Personally, I think it is unwise for me to "partially" do anything and will not accept that type of job. The hardest part is getting it into your shop and tearing it down and fixturing it. Hell, at that point you're already within sight of handling everything you know how to handle. Why give anything away and put another variable out there to worry about if the rig doesn't act right later?

My opinion is do not fix it if it is truly not broke. However, it there is an issue and ammo, stock, scope, shooter and other peripherals are accounted for, it really leaves only one major assembly left to point at. If it comes to that and the project comes through my door, I personally want as many controls in place as possible to help insure a very well behaved rifle once the work is done.

I had an old gent come to me for help zeroing before hunting season 5 years ago. 30-06 (of course) Rem 710 with plastic everything, 6 pound trigger, Simmons scope and Core Lokt 150s. Rifle was a freak. I literally fired 4 3-shot groups under 1/2 m.o.a. back to back. Only took 2 to zero but I couldn't believe it. When I gave him the rifle back, I also gave him the tag off the factory ammo box with the lot number.

Told him to go buy all of that ammo and if ANYBODY ever wanted to "work on that gun", swiftly kick them in the nuts...... politely of course.

 

[Jkob60]

* Food for thought on one scenario with a partial re-machine (everything recut except receiver threads) ..... If all critical features of the receiver are biased off axis in the same general direction and all of those features are recut except the receiver threads, wouldn't that cause a good bit of stress once the recoil lug/barrel is torqued against the fresh receiver face? Would it make a difference?....."

Terry Cross, you put that very eloquently and my point exactly. I think most of the "accuracy gunsmiths" are literally afraid to get into the re-threading procedure.

One other point I would like to make with the process. The major reamer manufacturers, and others, who make these so called manual trueing fixtures, offer the guided taps in .010" oversize. I have seen some of those actions which run out of concentricity by as much as .030" TIR. What happened to the rest of the threads when you are cone with the .010" oversize tap?

Jim

 

[bptactical]

Even with a pilot a tap will want to follow the existing threads.
The only way to ensure your threads are absolutely aligned with the action axis is to chase them with a rigid single point tool.
Face the receiver, lug surfaces, bore the crest of the threads just enough to get a fresh surface.
Chase the threads with the single point.
You will have to set the barrel back and turn the tenon to the diameter of the crested threads.
Recut chamber as required.
It's a good bit of work for a stock barrel. I have put a couple of 5R barrels on non 5r actions and they shot well, but I felt like was uneccesarry.

 

[pawprint2]

You obviously have never set up one of the factory actions and witnessed How bad some are. You are wasting your money on a "truing" job if that is all you have done to it.

It sounds like "to true" a factory action (I'm guess they are all made in some kind of licensed factory) such as a Remington 700 is a big waste of money? I'm not doubting your expertise in this matter, however; this does bring to mind a question, all the smiths offering to "true" an action- for X amount of dollars-are, they ripping off the consumer? Reason: some have witnessed(Jkob60 for example) "how bad some really are". What actions do you recommend? Which do not need to be trued?

 

[Red_SC]

It sounds like "to true" a factory action (I'm guess they are all made in some kind of licensed factory) such as a Remington 700 is a big waste of money?

Who are you replying to? Most in this thread agree that a truing job that includes recutting the action threads is beneficial.

 

[oldfatguy]

They said they wouldn't work on the ltr barrel though, which is what I have and I'm not sure of the reason?

LTR barrels have three wide flutes. Not real good for truing up in a lathe.

OFG

 

[pawprint2]

Who are you replying to? Most in this thread agree that a truing job that includes recutting the action threads is beneficial.

Sir, if you read my post, you'll see I have replied with quote from Jkob60, hope this helps.