Stupid Brains

[Maggot]

Then from an intelligent designer point of view, we disagree, which is fine. From a “God is love” point of view, I don’t disagree, but His love cannot be held in exclusion of His justice - and His grace and mercy. His infinite nature requires this conclusion, unless you an are presupposing that His infinite love is infinitely neutral, which means His justice is nonexistent. Which logically would mean there is no hell, which would go contrary to even those religions that each of may not agree with. And that brings up another question: can love exist without justice? Stated another way that is more direct: can Epstein and Hitler be in heaven with the children they abused and killed? If God is neutral in all aspects of justice then that means He had no standard and that Scripture is untrue. I have to reject that. Perhaps I misread what you were saying?

Yes, I believe you did but the explanation becomes complex.

-My take is exactly the same as I believe Christ taught.

God is a spirit (1)and that spirit is Love(2) . See below. That love which is the foundational principal of all creation. That love gave us free will and will allow us to destroy ourselves. It did that because in order to fellowship with him (who though love itself, being omniscient, knows what it would be to be without himself). In other words before the apple eating situation, we were totally innocent...like an infant. Would you want to fellowship with an infant forever or at some point would you wish the fellowship of a matured equal? So we had to fail to become complete and matured, which may include destroying our world so completely that only he can step in and draw us back to himself.

But perfect love cannot be vengeful, it only allow us to violate the principles he set in place and therein bring destruction (seeming vengeance or justice) upon ourselves. If you put diesel in our gas car yore not being punished, you just violate a physical law and it bit you in the ass. So I think that love is essentially neutral and is why we needed Jesus to first show us, and then with his return lead us, out of the hell we've been allowed to create for ourselves.

That said, Jesus, being the perfect embodiment of that love does have the authority to step in and over ride our fubar at times, thus grace and mercy. I received that grace (miracle) at least twice. When young I tried suicide once and by grace it failed. Circa 35 years of age, and in sever physical and mental anguish, I had decided to do some really stupid shit that would have resulted in the death of both myself and many others. I happened to mention it to this sweet old lady and she spun and looked at me and said "No, you will not!!! Jesus, you and I are going to get down in prayer and find out whats hurting you and you will live and prosper> (paraphrased cause it was a long time ago). And here I am almost 40 years later Maggot abides

As to hell, I'll reserve my thoughts for now, but I know that place well.

I'm not saying my take is perfect, its not, (as @Nik H put it "Always learning) but thats the best I can do in a short space and with only words to describe near indescribable ideas.. Understanding this stuff doesnt happen overnight. Ill be 74 shortly so have been contemplating it for over 50 years and still dont get it all, likely wont on this side.. I ask a favor. Before you answer, and try to pick what I've said to pieces, ask God to interpret, then sleep on it. Get back to me tomorrow.


-1-

www.biblegateway.com › passageJohn 4:24 KJV - God is a Spirit: and they that worship ...​

John 4:24King James Version. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

-2-

1. www.biblegateway.com › passage1 John 4:7-12 ESV - God Is Love - Beloved, let us love one ...​

   
   God Is Love. 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love ...

 

[theLBC]

i'm not personally religious, but just look around and you can see what happens when people don't really believe in hell anymore.

 

[Ronws]

What a person is willing to believe without proof is all about perspective and teachings.

Personally I don't *believe* in god but I also don't *believe* in the big bang because I don't see proof for either. Could they be tangled together? Sure, but I still don't see proof.

Someone said it right earlier, atheism is a form of religion.

Some people still believe the earth is flat even though it's not that hard to prove it isn't. This is a special category that goes beyond religion or science.

True. And one comedian I once enjoyed watching started ground the bend on the flat earth thing.

Anyway, so, I thank God that my wife, with the help of some wonderful medical people came back from a Code Blue. The condition she has, at least 1/3 never come back to any useful function. I thank God she is in the 2/3 category.

I used to be mad at God because of bad things. Then, I realized, it's not all about me and my feelings. Turns out that I am NOT the center of the universe.

I admire the faith of my friend, Tom. He can be as much in the presence of God on a hike as he can in the cathedral.

I have seen where belief in God can be a good thing. I knew a biker who would pick fights just because it was Friday. He was a problem for everyone who knew him. Then, he found faith in God and sobered up and quit fighting and got a regular job. Anyone can doubt the existence of God and I know all too well the examples of where God has "failed" us. I see where He has helped.

And no, it's not Pascal's Wager. Believe in God just in case he does exist. That is not faith, that is larceny.

 

[lariat]

i'm not personally religious, but just look around and you can see what happens when people don't really believe in hell anymore.

So very true.

 

[doubloon]

people don't really believe in hell anymore

Hell?

f*k ... when I look around I see people don't even believe in consequences anymore

 

[doubloon]

I used to be mad at God because of bad things. Then, I realized, it's not all about me and my feelings. Turns out that I am NOT the center of the universe.

I admire the faith of my friend, Tom. He can be as much in the presence of God on a hike as he can in the cathedral.

When it works, this is the way it should be, unshakable faith that does not need defense or validation of others.

I admire people who achieve it.

 

[Kidster]

Hmmmm, I thought this website was call Sniper's Hide and God's Hide???

 

[doubloon]

FWIW, I'm godless.

But I'm not a very good sniper either.

 

[Rthur]

Impartiality while it may seem true isn't likely possible.
Subconscious bias will still make it into the/their ideas.
Such as a heightened sense of intelligence/condescension.

R

 

[Supersubes]

Impartiality while it may seem true isn't likely possible.
Subconscious bias will still make it into the/their ideas.
Such as a heightened sense of intelligence/condescension.

R

You're describing both sides, right?

 

[doubloon]

Impartiality while it may seem true isn't likely possible.
Subconscious bias will still make it into the/their ideas.
Such as a heightened sense of intelligence/condescension.

R

Self-awareness level 5 achieved.

Rarely has anyone gone beyond level 5 without first dying.

You're describing both side, right?

Pretty much every human being. Absolute control is an illusion.

 

[Rthur]

You're describing both side, right?

R

 

[doubloon]

Feels timely…

Glad I'm asocial.

it's a cool concept video and it's probably mostly accurate. Echo chambers don't roam around like The Rover looking to trap people. People go looking for echo chambers, sometimes to flee their immediate real world environment. Like the smokers behind the gym or the emos at the mall or the deplorables in gun forums.

In the end this is just another propaganda video meant to distract you from the real reason for all the tribe in tribe violence.

"Rome. Greece. All democracies fail because people are fucking stupid. But if you crush the masses who build your monuments, who tongue your taint... Nah, the people will tear it apart themselves. You just gotta nudge 'em a little. Then you get to swoop in and be the one saving it." -- Barack Hussein Obama "The Shackles of Hypocrisy" senior thesis Columbia University 1983