Do all Law enforcement and Military units use strictly FFP scopes or are there units that use SFP scopes in the line of duty. Just wondering...
Rifle Scopes Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
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Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
Yeah!! BOTH YO!!!
Yeah!! BOTH YO!!!
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
For LE sniper use, I chose SFP. Budget was not a factor, SFP just made more sense with the reticle I chose.
You can still use the reticle for holdoffs with SFP, once you learn your scope, but for my use, I will attempt to dial all shots.
As a side note, don't ever assume that Mil, or LE has/uses the best gear. They almost never do. It can be because of budget, incompetent administration, or politics, but one of the three will screw it up.
For LE sniper use, I chose SFP. Budget was not a factor, SFP just made more sense with the reticle I chose.
You can still use the reticle for holdoffs with SFP, once you learn your scope, but for my use, I will attempt to dial all shots.
As a side note, don't ever assume that Mil, or LE has/uses the best gear. They almost never do. It can be because of budget, incompetent administration, or politics, but one of the three will screw it up.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now <span style="text-decoration: line-through">obsolete</span> discontinued Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around!
I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now <span style="text-decoration: line-through">obsolete</span> discontinued Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around!
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now obsolete Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around! </div></div>
WoW
....Question Answered!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now obsolete Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around! </div></div>
WoW
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
The budget has a lot to do with it. The fact of it is and i hate to say it but most agencies spend money in places that a typically not needed. When it comes to safety/tactical gear the trend is that is takes a bad incident before they evaluate equipment. About a month ago I was set up giving cover to one of my agencies snipers on a baricaded subject. As I was spotting/ covering for him I noticed his equipment. It was a sad sight. Another thing is that a lot of special units in le fill like they know everything there is to know about their trade and rarely ask for help. Again I'm talking about my agency which I have knowlage of. On the other hand there are agencies that have their shit together.
The budget has a lot to do with it. The fact of it is and i hate to say it but most agencies spend money in places that a typically not needed. When it comes to safety/tactical gear the trend is that is takes a bad incident before they evaluate equipment. About a month ago I was set up giving cover to one of my agencies snipers on a baricaded subject. As I was spotting/ covering for him I noticed his equipment. It was a sad sight. Another thing is that a lot of special units in le fill like they know everything there is to know about their trade and rarely ask for help. Again I'm talking about my agency which I have knowlage of. On the other hand there are agencies that have their shit together.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now obsolete Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles. </div></div>
You do not seem to understand the meaning of obsolete.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As a side note, don't ever assume that Mil, or LE has/uses the best gear. They almost never do. It can be because of budget, incompetent administration, or politics, but one of the three will screw it up. </div></div>
This pretty much says it all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now obsolete Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles. </div></div>
You do not seem to understand the meaning of obsolete.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As a side note, don't ever assume that Mil, or LE has/uses the best gear. They almost never do. It can be because of budget, incompetent administration, or politics, but one of the three will screw it up. </div></div>
This pretty much says it all.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
LE admin is even harder to convince then military admin of the benefits of SOME newer or more efficient designs.
I'm willing to bet that 99% of all LE agencies that have department issued sniper rifles are sporting SFP scopes, the vast majority of which will be Luepolds with a very good reprensentation of NF and a mish mash of Bushnell, Nikon etc...
Most of these are the remington 700 packages sold by remington with a 3.5-10x Luepy scope.
A SFP scope is far from unusable, they are very serviceable in fact. MOST LE snipers do not range with their scopes, most shoot on the highest power (most of these scopes are the 3.5-10 variety). MOST do not dial corrections, and if they do, removing a cap to dial is not a big deal. A LE sniper does not normally show up to a scene and take a shot immediately. They get in their FFP, provide intel and observe as the negotiators do their job, sometimes to the tune of multiple hours. PLENTY of time to range and make adjustments.
I choose FFP, I like the advantages it offers me, when I attended school last year, I was the ONLY shooter with a FFP scope.
There was one guy rocking a PSG-1 with a 6x Hensoldt scope, that rig was bought back in the early 80's because the department bought the hype.
LE admin is even harder to convince then military admin of the benefits of SOME newer or more efficient designs.
I'm willing to bet that 99% of all LE agencies that have department issued sniper rifles are sporting SFP scopes, the vast majority of which will be Luepolds with a very good reprensentation of NF and a mish mash of Bushnell, Nikon etc...
Most of these are the remington 700 packages sold by remington with a 3.5-10x Luepy scope.
A SFP scope is far from unusable, they are very serviceable in fact. MOST LE snipers do not range with their scopes, most shoot on the highest power (most of these scopes are the 3.5-10 variety). MOST do not dial corrections, and if they do, removing a cap to dial is not a big deal. A LE sniper does not normally show up to a scene and take a shot immediately. They get in their FFP, provide intel and observe as the negotiators do their job, sometimes to the tune of multiple hours. PLENTY of time to range and make adjustments.
I choose FFP, I like the advantages it offers me, when I attended school last year, I was the ONLY shooter with a FFP scope.
There was one guy rocking a PSG-1 with a 6x Hensoldt scope, that rig was bought back in the early 80's because the department bought the hype.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
I have been on active duty for six years and have never seen an FFP scope out here. Granted, they may be bouncing around in AFG, but the snipers and DMs I have seen have all had Leupold Mk4 variables (4-14, usually). Far from a bad scope, but not the coice of the precision optics cognoscenti.
I have been on active duty for six years and have never seen an FFP scope out here. Granted, they may be bouncing around in AFG, but the snipers and DMs I have seen have all had Leupold Mk4 variables (4-14, usually). Far from a bad scope, but not the coice of the precision optics cognoscenti.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
I've said on here before(and been lamblasted) that the LARGE majority of professional snipers,military and LE use Leupold scopes and SFP. I would imagine between the Army using M3As,4.5x14s,and the mix of Leupolds I have seen on DMR rifles and M107s and all the PSS sniper packages that have been sold with 3.5x10 and 4.5x14 Leupolds on them it's probably close to a 10 to 1 ratio Leupold to FFP anything else.
Not saying thats the best,just the numbers. It works and works very well for the vast majority of them. Don't use your scope to range or are stuck using a fixed 10X? You don't need FFP. Most people who I have seen exposed to FFP after using SFP for years DO NOT like the FFP reticle size change.
Are the LE snipers cited above with the "obsolete" Leupolds ever going to be handicapped in their operational environment with a SFP scope? Nope, not a bit. If it is clear and holds zero it will do the job they need it to.
We forget as people who do this for fun as well as work that you don't NEED the bells and whistles of the latest,greatest scope to get the job done. Training overcomes equipment. We are by and large like people who drive stockcars to the grocery store to pick up milk. Sure we get there faster and looking cooler.....but the Ford windstar would have done the job just as well.
The heros of the sniper community would have done unnatural things to have a super sniper HD on their rifles in Vietnam,yet it's considered a great starter scope by those on here.
Don't try to equate the standards here with the real world. Snipers in the real world use SFP 100 to 1 over FFP.
I've said on here before(and been lamblasted) that the LARGE majority of professional snipers,military and LE use Leupold scopes and SFP. I would imagine between the Army using M3As,4.5x14s,and the mix of Leupolds I have seen on DMR rifles and M107s and all the PSS sniper packages that have been sold with 3.5x10 and 4.5x14 Leupolds on them it's probably close to a 10 to 1 ratio Leupold to FFP anything else.
Not saying thats the best,just the numbers. It works and works very well for the vast majority of them. Don't use your scope to range or are stuck using a fixed 10X? You don't need FFP. Most people who I have seen exposed to FFP after using SFP for years DO NOT like the FFP reticle size change.
Are the LE snipers cited above with the "obsolete" Leupolds ever going to be handicapped in their operational environment with a SFP scope? Nope, not a bit. If it is clear and holds zero it will do the job they need it to.
We forget as people who do this for fun as well as work that you don't NEED the bells and whistles of the latest,greatest scope to get the job done. Training overcomes equipment. We are by and large like people who drive stockcars to the grocery store to pick up milk. Sure we get there faster and looking cooler.....but the Ford windstar would have done the job just as well.
The heros of the sniper community would have done unnatural things to have a super sniper HD on their rifles in Vietnam,yet it's considered a great starter scope by those on here.
Don't try to equate the standards here with the real world. Snipers in the real world use SFP 100 to 1 over FFP.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
When I used the word <span style="font-style: italic">obsolete</span> in my above post, I meant it in terms of the scope's availability. That particular VX-3 model is no longer available from Leupold, hence obsolete. Perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">discontinued</span> would have been a better description.
I apologize for any confusion or indigestion
When I used the word <span style="font-style: italic">obsolete</span> in my above post, I meant it in terms of the scope's availability. That particular VX-3 model is no longer available from Leupold, hence obsolete. Perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">discontinued</span> would have been a better description.
I apologize for any confusion or indigestion
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I used the word <span style="font-style: italic">obsolete</span> in my above post, I meant it in terms of the scope's availability. That particular VX-3 model is no longer available from Leupold, hence obsolete. Perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">discontinued</span> would have been a better description.
I apologize for any confusion or indigestion
</div></div>
I understood your point and wasn't picking on your choice of words. There are many who would consider them "obsolete" however,because of what they have read they "need" to be a tactical marksman.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I used the word <span style="font-style: italic">obsolete</span> in my above post, I meant it in terms of the scope's availability. That particular VX-3 model is no longer available from Leupold, hence obsolete. Perhaps <span style="font-style: italic">discontinued</span> would have been a better description.
I apologize for any confusion or indigestion
</div></div>
I understood your point and wasn't picking on your choice of words. There are many who would consider them "obsolete" however,because of what they have read they "need" to be a tactical marksman.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
When I was in LE I carried a fixed 6X Redfield Widefield. (Per recommendations from the USAMU Sniper School). It worked quite well, I wouldn't have any problems using it in a LE Sniping/Counter Sniper role.
When I was in LE I carried a fixed 6X Redfield Widefield. (Per recommendations from the USAMU Sniper School). It worked quite well, I wouldn't have any problems using it in a LE Sniping/Counter Sniper role.
Re: Stupid Question: LE and Military use SFP?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now <span style="text-decoration: line-through">obsolete</span> discontinued Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around! </div></div>Check out rifle number two: The elevation turret on the Leupy goes to 12 MOA and then stops. That scope is broken but it remains in use.
LE likes SFP: They dial wind. You would too if you were trained that your job requires a single shot at a known distance.
Either that or they don't care because they hold wind, meaning favor one side or the other of where they intend to hit. Yeah: I know. But, really, some do.
In the end one uses as much magnification as one can get, doesn't mil if can lase, and measures using the highest power anyway.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was running some load testing at the range here in my medium-sized, west Michigan town last week. About a half hour into my shooting, a black box truck rolled up and unloaded the town's LE sniper team. They were there to start breaking in a couple new guys. The five snipers were all very professional, and cool to me while we shared the same range.
I was stupefied however to see that they were shooting now <span style="text-decoration: line-through">obsolete</span> discontinued Leupold VX-3s with covered 1/4 MOA target turrets, and 1" tubes. The scopes were SFP, and had mil-dot reticles.
I started feeling really bad when they proceeded to ask me all kinds of questions about my FFP, mil/mil Bushnell Elite. I almost just gave it to them! If I only had enough to go around! </div></div>Check out rifle number two: The elevation turret on the Leupy goes to 12 MOA and then stops. That scope is broken but it remains in use.
LE likes SFP: They dial wind. You would too if you were trained that your job requires a single shot at a known distance.
Either that or they don't care because they hold wind, meaning favor one side or the other of where they intend to hit. Yeah: I know. But, really, some do.
In the end one uses as much magnification as one can get, doesn't mil if can lase, and measures using the highest power anyway.
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