I almost posted this in the stupid questions forum.
When does one need to anneal?
When does one need to anneal?
- Thread starter Jammer Six
- Start date
When one feels that the cost of annealing equipment is justified against life of cases.
I need to get an annealer myself but some anneal after every firing and some after a few.
So it's like casting lead bullets-- it's a step you can skip, you can throw the brass away, buy new brass (or new bullets) and move on with your life?
Annealing is not a necessary step. Long story short it helps to extend the life of the brass. This page has some good info but take it with a grain of salt as it's provided by a company that sells annealing equipment.
https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntech/the-not-so-arcane-art-of-brass-annealing/detail.htm?lid=16032
https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntech/the-not-so-arcane-art-of-brass-annealing/detail.htm?lid=16032
I see, thanks.
That page answers everything except when. But that makes sense, since they want me to buy their equipment.
So now I'm confident that as long as I'm willing to buy new brass when I see signs of trouble on the old brass, I don't need to anneal at all. Another step to add after I've mastered the basics. (I've been working on mastering the basics of sailing since The Summer of Love.)
Thanks again, gang!
That page answers everything except when. But that makes sense, since they want me to buy their equipment.
So now I'm confident that as long as I'm willing to buy new brass when I see signs of trouble on the old brass, I don't need to anneal at all. Another step to add after I've mastered the basics. (I've been working on mastering the basics of sailing since The Summer of Love.)
Thanks again, gang!
I began noticing a gradual loss of neck tension after 5 reloads, or so, on my .300 win mag brass. I attributed this to work hardening of the brass and spring back after neck sizing. I decided to try annealing a few cases, and sure enough, proper neck tension was restored! I now anneal my cases before any significant reduction in neck tension occurs.
I anneal every firing because I believe that it helps keep neck tension consistant. Disclaimer: I have not done any testing to compare annealing vs not annealing so take this as you see it.
Annealing is an optional step from what I understand. Yes, it will help the brass last a bit longer, but I have yet to justify buying equipment to do this to get a couple of more loads out of a case. I have seen some "torture tests" with lapua brass and some people are getting 20+ reloads out of a piece of brass without annealing at all (do your own research of course).
Before too long, I may start annealing, but I would only do it every 3 loads or so.
Before too long, I may start annealing, but I would only do it every 3 loads or so.
I dont anneal for case life. Most on here dont.
What we are after is setting the case neck hardness the same each time so that we are able to get a consistent amount of neck tension on every single firing of the cases life. Extended life before splitting is just a bonus.
https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/
When you read the part one make sure you check out all of the additional appendices within it.
Ahhh ok I see.
Would the optional bushings for some of the die sets not help with neck tension consistency?
Yeah, as the hardness increases (and springiness/malleability) you could try to swap bushings in an attempt to maintain an equal amount of bullet grip. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...n-bullet-why-bushing-size-is-only-one-factor/
But how you would do it beyond constantly testing and guessing Im not sure. Do it enough I dont doubt you could develop a feel for it. Hyrdo arbor seating presses will help quantify how much force is holding the bullet, or rather actually how much force it takes for you to insert the bullet.
Most use bushing dies to avoid overworking the necks, not to set the final neck tension. Different thicknesses of brass require different bushing diameters for minimal amounts of working the brass.
Unless you have perfectly even turned necks youll probably want to use an final reexpansion to have a consistent internal diameter.
http://www.6mmbr.com/casenecktools.html
I find it easier just to heat the case necks and keep everything the same every time.
Annealing helps with keeping neck tension consistent (which affects SD and ES) and it also helps alleviate brass from getting split necks.
If you have a match chamber, there is a good chance you will not get split necks as your necks won't have to expand much during firing and then have to be significantly resized during reloading which work-hardens the brass and makes it brittle which leads to the necks splitting. If you have a factory chamber, your brass may easily get over-worked and lead to split necks after just a few firings.
If you have a match chamber, there is a good chance you will not get split necks as your necks won't have to expand much during firing and then have to be significantly resized during reloading which work-hardens the brass and makes it brittle which leads to the necks splitting. If you have a factory chamber, your brass may easily get over-worked and lead to split necks after just a few firings.
Understood. Well, I guess in this case I need to start looking into some kind of annealing process then. Brass prep sucks hahahaha!
I am running a Tuebor custom barreled action so I am going to assume it is a match chamber.
More than likely it is. You can measure the neck diameter of your loaded brass and then compare that to the neck diameter of your fired brass in order to find out how much your brass is getting worked.
Let's say hypothetically you start with .308 brass which is prepped for seating bullets and has an outside diameter of .336" with neck thickness of .015" per side for .030" total. When you insert your .308 projectile it will have .002" neck tension and expand your neck to .338". After firing your neck comes out of the chamber at .344" (.006 expansion) and then you have to resize it back to .336" again (.008") to reload it. .002" + .006" + .008" = .016" per firing cycle. This example is fairly representative of a match chamber but .016" adds up over 10-20 firings. A sloppy factory chamber may get you closer to .030" per cycle.
Brass usually dies from split necks, loose primer pockets, or casehead failure. Annealing is just a way to postpone split necks. If your rifle ends up killing brass by blowing out primer pockets or casehead failure, annealing isn't going to help that much.
When I get home this evening I will do some measurements. I am hoping for some lower figures obviously.
Thank you for the info!
How do you get .030 from the two numbers .336 and .015?
.015x2=.030
.015 is the thickness of one side, double it to get the total amount of neck material
.336-.030=.306
The sized case outside diameter minus the thickness of the case neck material gives you the inside diameter
.308-.306=.002” of “neck tension”
If you take the bullet diameter and subtract the inside of the case neck diameter you see how many inches of interference fit there is between the case and the bullet.
His loaded round necks outside diameter would be .338” by adding the sized case diameter to the amount of interference fit.
.015 is the thickness of one side, double it to get the total amount of neck material
.336-.030=.306
The sized case outside diameter minus the thickness of the case neck material gives you the inside diameter
.308-.306=.002” of “neck tension”
If you take the bullet diameter and subtract the inside of the case neck diameter you see how many inches of interference fit there is between the case and the bullet.
His loaded round necks outside diameter would be .338” by adding the sized case diameter to the amount of interference fit.
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Because I learned Common Core math in school?
As Spife explained in detail, the neck thickness is .015" on both sides so they contribute .030" to the total diameter.
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Competitors say: 1st shot= fireform, 2nd-4th competition, 5+= practice cases.
Personally, I purchased the "AMP" unit. The justification was "consistency". I can feel the tension of every bullet seating, and know they are the same (as close as humanly possible). I anneal as part of my process in every loading.
Now that AMP offers custom programming, all of my cases have specific programs (per lot). Rabbit hole? YES. But it works for me.
That said; I load only Norma and Lapua brass (currently .223Rem, and 6.5CM). I cull any cases that feel different during any part of the process, or show signs of fatigue. I trash them at 20 regardless (last Norma batch I tossed 7 out of 200 during their life for various reasons). My current batch of 200 Lapua is @ 12, and I have tossed 2 cases. Powder charges are somewhere north of max..
I chose to put my money into precision loading, and good factory rifles (Tikka for one). The cost of excellent hand loading equipment ( AMP, FX 120i, custom dies), pays dividends for many years, with average ES in the low teens, and consistent sub MOA accuracy.
Do the math to see what works best for you.
my opinion.. hope it helps
Personally, I purchased the "AMP" unit. The justification was "consistency". I can feel the tension of every bullet seating, and know they are the same (as close as humanly possible). I anneal as part of my process in every loading.
Now that AMP offers custom programming, all of my cases have specific programs (per lot). Rabbit hole? YES. But it works for me.
That said; I load only Norma and Lapua brass (currently .223Rem, and 6.5CM). I cull any cases that feel different during any part of the process, or show signs of fatigue. I trash them at 20 regardless (last Norma batch I tossed 7 out of 200 during their life for various reasons). My current batch of 200 Lapua is @ 12, and I have tossed 2 cases. Powder charges are somewhere north of max..
I chose to put my money into precision loading, and good factory rifles (Tikka for one). The cost of excellent hand loading equipment ( AMP, FX 120i, custom dies), pays dividends for many years, with average ES in the low teens, and consistent sub MOA accuracy.
Do the math to see what works best for you.
my opinion.. hope it helps
Thanks, Spife.
No idea what "common core" is. It must be something new.
No idea what "common core" is. It must be something new.
Thank you for that. This is the type of clear answer to a question that makes these fora so useful. GB
When one expects to keep up the fire
https://cartridgeanneal.com/
This is a simple inexpensive kit that I have been using. It works ok for a casual shooter.
This is a simple inexpensive kit that I have been using. It works ok for a casual shooter.
