Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

T

TEAMSENDIT

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Sep 22, 2008
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    whidbey island
    #1
    Not sure if this is the proper section but I will soon be getting my gemtech hvt 30 cal can. so I am having dificulty decieding which 30 caliber subsonic caliber to chooses. I have been reading about the 308, 300 whisper and 30br. I am open to any other possible choices. I will be putting it on my tube gun and I have 223,308 and wsm boltface for it so I can run virtually any cartridge. I don't mind single feeding since I have a single shot follower along with 223aic and 308 aics mags available. I am not bias towards any of them and am very open minded about trying to calibers/combos. I will only be using this as a quiet practice cartridge to shoot at my 100yd home practice range.

    If this effects anything I currently have a takeoff ltr 12twist barrel and a 10 twist broughton 308 barrel both threaded for suppresor.

    Any input on caliber choice, bullet/powder choice would be great, barrel length and twist.

    thanks scott
     
    #3
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    Either 308 or 300 Whisper with a twist in the 1:6.5 (pure 240 subsonic) to 1:8 range (50/50 mix of supersonic and 220 grain subsonic).
     
    #4
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I have MOA accuracy out of my 308 with sub loads (165 Rem corelok with ~10.1 gr trailboss). It is a 11.25 twist barrel and I was getting occassional oblong holes with the 180gr corelok bullets. It is a good time.

    If you want something fun to shoot at your home range, I would HIGHLY suggest just getting a dedicated 22LR. I have a Sako Finnfire with a threaded lilja barrel, and that thing is retarded quiet with my TBAC 30P and my SRT Arms 300WIN cans. It is a lot cheaper to shoot and you don't have to reload for it as well. If you look at reloading costs (~25 cents per shot) vs target grade 22LR ammo (>10 cents per shot) you can convince yourself to take the plung as compared to buying another barrel.

    Good luck. Suppressors are an expensive hobby. You end up threading every gun you have to take one and then buy more guns to find new ways to play with them.

    Josh
     
    #5
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    thanks I already have a 22lr can on my cooper 57m which is sickly quiet, but shooting subsonics out of my tube gun gives me practice with my actual competition rifle without driving and annoying the neighbors with noise. the 22lr is great practice but it just isn't the same as shooting my 15lb comp rifle.
     
    #8
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    quarterbore.net has alot of info on subsonic stuff.

    the 300whisper is alot more popular and you can load them to regular powered loads, ballistics end up close to a 7.62x39 or 30-30, and it is very easy to load subsonic.

    with the whisper you won't need more than a 16'' barrel and many get by with less.

    Brass isn't quite as easy as .308 but if you get the right chambering you can neck up regular .223 and be golden. I would get in touch with the_docter(sp?) he is a member here and on quarterbore and I see him selling 300whisper barrels all the time.
     
    #9
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    In my opinion, subsonic was a must have. Once the newness wore off, it now is pretty much a dust collector. I have two .300 Whispers and when I want to go plinkin I just pick up a 22lr. Don't get me wrong I really like the caliber, it is just another caliber to reload for. If you have nothing but time on your hands, I would go with the .300 Whisper. If you value your time, a 22lr is where its at.

    Just my opinion, I hope it helps with your decision.

    Eddie
     
    #12
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I personally prefer the .308, running the 170FP, 180RN, 208AMAX with Trailboss and nothing but fun. Capable of 400yds, hard hitting at range and I use my Federal GM brass after proofing the factory ammo. So brass is easy, as others mentioned, 1/10" barrels work just fine and you can still shoot full power without issues.
     
    #14
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    Diggler. I'm running 10.4 of trail boss. Hornady 180 RN out of a 22" 1-11.25 kreiger.

    Shoots MOA out of my rifle. It's a 4 MIL hold from my 100 zero to my subsonic loads.

    They are super quiet and no recoil. Even without a can they are quiet.
     
    #15
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I had this same dilema 6 months ago...

    I'm was not excited of having ANOTHER caliber in my collection so I simplified greatly. Settled on 308 - what I was concerned with was not getting good case capacity from my powder but Trailboss fixed that.

    I'm shooting a 180 round nose Hornady bullet / Rem large rifle primer / Federal brass / 10.0 grains Trailboss out of a 10 twist 18" barrel / HTG M30 can - gives me about 1005 fps.

    I tried lots of stuff - drilling out flash holes to 9/64" / using Magnum rifle primers / Lapua brass / Federal brass but settled on standard sized flashhole and regular large rifle primers. Didn't see anymore fps consistency with the flashhole drilled or magnum primers than with standard flashhole and large rifle primers. Also I'd be worried that one of the drilled flashhole pieces of brass would get into my regular full power loads. That would probably fit into the "Seemed like a good idea at the time" catagory.

    Three guys about 15 feet back were chatting about something when I was shooting. After I had shot about 5 downrange I took a break and went back to my range bag. He wanted to know what caliber I was shooting. You should have seen his face when I said, "308"... It is a very quiet setup.
     
    #16
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I like the 338 whisper which has the same bolt face as a 308 so you can just switch out the barrel to be a 308 rifle if you want,
     
    #17
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    diggler44, I am running the 208's with 12gr - 13gr range depending on the barrel length, 1/9" or 1/10" twist. The 1/10" works great with the 208's, we shot them out of Remy's, Savage's and the Coverts, all worked great. I am running a 1/9" 16" covert and Remy 1/10" 10" with the 170's, 180's and 208's and it makes me want to get rid of all my .22lr rifles. The best range so far with the 208's has been 450yds, 180's @ 3k MSL in CO allowed me to shot to 425yds, what fun.

    As for the Whisper setups, they are nice but I don't have the time or want to chase brass constantly. I personally have not found a need to push the way more expensive .338 bullets to gain the distance, but that is me.
     
    #18
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    awesome i think the 308 it is for me since I have the brass and dies and barrel, i am actually thankful that nobody convinced me otherwise because it would have cost me more money. thanks for all the input guys. as always very useful in my decision making process.
     
    #19
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I have shot Lapua B416 subsonic bullets in .308 with 1:10 and it worked ok. Still I got the feeling that 1:9 or 1:8 would have been significantly better.
     
    #20
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    Have been shooting the Lapua 200gr's for years, in the Covert 1/9", found they were moderate @ best for accuracy. The 208 AMAX shoots much better than the Lapua hands down, accuracy tested the 208's in the several M700's with 1/10", the Covert 1/9" and 1/10", Savage 1/10" 16" & 20", and "ggarrett1911" shot the same load I passed to him and hopefully he will chime in with his honest results as well. In my experience, any faster twist than the 1/9" on a .308 becomes a "twitchy" issue and more finicky overall with different bullets.

    If all you are doing is 200yds and under, don't pass up the opportunity to check out the 180gr RN bullets as well. Less expensive to shoot, widely available and have proven in again several different weapons to be good accuracy as well. Best wishes and enjoy.
     
    #21
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    I will make sure to test the 208s. If I have a 16 inch Covert barrel, is it 1:9 or 1:10? I think I tried to measure it and it seemed to be 1:10.

    Sierra 220s will yaw with a 1:9 twist at 100 yards. I believe that 1:8 is better for the 220s and for people who want 240s, I would look at 1:7.

    I know these twists seem fast, but if you do the math on rpm and gyroscopic stability, 1:8 for a .308 is much like 1:8 for a 5.56mm. There are people who were bloody against that and will only shoot 1:14 or 1:12 in 5.56mm. I feel that 1:10 is the new 1:12 and 1:8 is the new 1:10 - at least for short barrels.
     
    #23
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    If you will run them subsonic it should not matter as the rpm will be the based on the muzzle velocity and in either case you will fix the velocity to 1020-1040 fps or so.
     
    #24
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    If you have one of the AI barrels, it is a 1/9", only the ones I am working with now are 1/10".

    I have never seen with any of my load development the issue you mentioned in the past 15+ years with the big bullets. Either way, no matter, if it works great, but I honestly believe its senseless to have to spend money on a special barrel twist which is more limited, then if the customer wants to shoot full power, well now what. Either way, we are offering the new AI Covert series for the AE MKI, MKII and AW's and they will have a 16" barrel with 1/10". They shoot anything I have pushed through them from 170 - 220gr bullets.

    The barrel length should not really make much difference, I have shot them out of a 10" to 20" barrels so far, love them and highly recommend trying them out.
     
    #25
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    30br is great to 300 yards with 112 to 118 bullets from a 1:19 twist barrel. However, brass is a pain in the ass to make but it lasts forever. Most of the guys in varmint for score shoot them and they are beginning to give the 6ppc some minor fits on the group side.
     
    #26
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    Great info in this thread. Looks like I went with a good combination. I have a 1:10 that I am chambering in .308Win at 19" barrel length. I have a 10" long can on the way so that is the reason for the shorter barrel. I want to shoot subsonics as well as "normal" loads. This will be for shorter ranges < 600yds.

    I plan on loading some Hornady 180gr RN bullets under Trail Boss. Might try some 208AMAX as well if the 180's do not work out. I picked up some Magnum primers (Remington), as magnum primers is what I read most guys were loading with subsonics but apparently regular LR primers (I have Win and CCI BR2 on hand) might work just as good. I do not plan to alter the flash holes as I too am concerned of mixing brass and loading normal rounds with the enlarged flash holes.

    Everything I have read in my research tells me I should end up around 10.5ish with TB as a charge. I have also read that Titegroup is not a position sensitive powder and shooters have had success loading subsonics with it as well so if TB proves to be very position dependant then I might give Titegroup a go.

    I am a freaking kid at christmas waiting on my build and suppressor to get here. TigerShark and LA Precision Rifles FTMFW!
     
    #27
    Re: Subsonic 308, 300 whisper or 30br?

    This is all well and good, but would appear to me to be an overcomplication of what should be a far simpler task.

    There are limits to how far out one can achieve results using subsonic projectiles. The only real way to deliver usable energy is to start out with significant energy; and with subsonics, that means increasing projectile mass.

    Stop, back off a few steps, and re-examine the goals. In essence, one is attempting to achieve pistol performance. In my estimation, it makes best sense to begin the task with a pistol chambering, and optimize it for best terminal performance and accuracy in the near sonic regime.

    IMHO, nothing under .44 caliber is even worth looking at for applications in this regime.

    Further, attempting to perform this task with a firearm that was initially configured to send projectiles long distances constitutes a deliberate effort to craft a sow's ear out of a silk purse. Subsonic ballistics is a specialized field, and the mission dictates employing a dedicated and optimized platform.

    Greg
     
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