Has anyone used their subsonic ammo for hunting? and if so on what game? I'm interested in the terminal ballistics. I understand it isn't legal everywhere, maybe some help on that too.
Hunting & Fishing Subsonic hunting
- Thread starter coldboremiracle
- Start date
Re: Subsonic hunting
i've used sub 9mm ammo with my cans for rabbits and yotes, but i'll keep the sonic crack with my 7.62 when it comes to deer and elk.
i've used sub 9mm ammo with my cans for rabbits and yotes, but i'll keep the sonic crack with my 7.62 when it comes to deer and elk.
Re: Subsonic hunting
The first deer Luke took with subs. Together we have taken 5 with 180 RNs. All react as hit with a broadhead and arrow. They flich, run about 30-40 yards, stop and look back...then die! All were pass throughs. I will keep shots within 100 yards or so with this set up.
Planning on building a dedicated sub gun to shoot 240s. This will be stretched out a little more.
The first deer Luke took with subs. Together we have taken 5 with 180 RNs. All react as hit with a broadhead and arrow. They flich, run about 30-40 yards, stop and look back...then die! All were pass throughs. I will keep shots within 100 yards or so with this set up.
Planning on building a dedicated sub gun to shoot 240s. This will be stretched out a little more.
Re: Subsonic hunting
I've taken several deer with 170 gr Hornady flat point/10.2 gr Trailboss subsonic loads. Usually try for a head or neck shot to anchor them where they stand. Have shot one out @ 160 yards behind the shoulder, still didn't go 40 yards before folding up. The 170's seem to hit harder than the 180 RN's, the last one I shot in the neck (at 140 yards) sounded like I hit her upside the head with a 2x4! Easily a sub-MOA load as well.
Oh, and to the OP, you might want to fill out your profile!
I've taken several deer with 170 gr Hornady flat point/10.2 gr Trailboss subsonic loads. Usually try for a head or neck shot to anchor them where they stand. Have shot one out @ 160 yards behind the shoulder, still didn't go 40 yards before folding up. The 170's seem to hit harder than the 180 RN's, the last one I shot in the neck (at 140 yards) sounded like I hit her upside the head with a 2x4! Easily a sub-MOA load as well.
Oh, and to the OP, you might want to fill out your profile!
Re: Subsonic hunting
Many more had the same ending. They do not run when hit with cheap Remington subs from the CZ 452. Luke's fav thing to do is shoot rabbits off our food plots late afternoons.
Many more had the same ending. They do not run when hit with cheap Remington subs from the CZ 452. Luke's fav thing to do is shoot rabbits off our food plots late afternoons.
Re: Subsonic hunting
I shoot 220 gr rn out of my .308 with 10.5 gr of clays, I think it would do about the same as you've posted here, but I have'nt had a chance to find out. I've killed a few small animals with them, and they are very accurate out to about 250 yds.I'd love to give it a try.
I shoot 220 gr rn out of my .308 with 10.5 gr of clays, I think it would do about the same as you've posted here, but I have'nt had a chance to find out. I've killed a few small animals with them, and they are very accurate out to about 250 yds.I'd love to give it a try.
Re: Subsonic hunting
My dad has taken 3 deer in the past couple of years with his 44 wildcat. Loaded 460gr Cast RN at 1025fps, all were close headshots, under 35yd
They drop like they were poleaxed. Last year my dad and sister were hunting from the same area, he dropped the first one and she followed up with a second kill from an unsuppressed 20ga slug gun. 2 deer, DRT.
The big cast lead bullet performs just like a 12ga slug does.
My dad has taken 3 deer in the past couple of years with his 44 wildcat. Loaded 460gr Cast RN at 1025fps, all were close headshots, under 35yd
They drop like they were poleaxed. Last year my dad and sister were hunting from the same area, he dropped the first one and she followed up with a second kill from an unsuppressed 20ga slug gun. 2 deer, DRT.
The big cast lead bullet performs just like a 12ga slug does.
Re: Subsonic hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big cast lead bullet performs just like a 12ga slug does. </div></div>
there was an interesting article that came out in a guns/reloading magazine about 2-3 months ago discussing broad meplat bullets. The argument was that large flat ( broad faced ) cast bullets at low muzzle velocitys provide more than adequate penetration and expansion.
An example that they gave was of a hunter in africa taking a rhino with a 45-70 with a 500g hard cast BMB at something like 1550 fps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big cast lead bullet performs just like a 12ga slug does. </div></div>
there was an interesting article that came out in a guns/reloading magazine about 2-3 months ago discussing broad meplat bullets. The argument was that large flat ( broad faced ) cast bullets at low muzzle velocitys provide more than adequate penetration and expansion.
An example that they gave was of a hunter in africa taking a rhino with a 45-70 with a 500g hard cast BMB at something like 1550 fps.
Re: Subsonic hunting
Anyone use H110 for subsonic loads. I've got 2 lbs at the house that I have no other use for. Wondering for a 308, 24" barrel, AAC can.
Anyone use H110 for subsonic loads. I've got 2 lbs at the house that I have no other use for. Wondering for a 308, 24" barrel, AAC can.
Re: Subsonic hunting
anyone ever try to make a subsonic 260 Remington?
Good or bad idea. Seems to me the longer more slender bullet would be really stable and yaw pretty well on impact. What's ya'lls thoughts
anyone ever try to make a subsonic 260 Remington?
Good or bad idea. Seems to me the longer more slender bullet would be really stable and yaw pretty well on impact. What's ya'lls thoughts
Re: Subsonic hunting
The saving grace of a subsonic round is that you shoot super heavy bullets for that caliber. A 260 Rem probably isn't going to give the options of a super heavy bullet like a 308 (same parent case) would give.
You can take a 308, load 240's to mag lengths and have something that will still deliver about 800 ft lbs. The 260 isn't going to stay subsonic and do that.
The rhino with a 45-70 doesn't surprise me one bit. There's a documented story of a German commander in WWII Afrika Corps who liked to hunt dangerous game. He had the machinists turn him some solid copper bullets with big flat noses and killed an elephant with an 8x57.
The saving grace of a subsonic round is that you shoot super heavy bullets for that caliber. A 260 Rem probably isn't going to give the options of a super heavy bullet like a 308 (same parent case) would give.
You can take a 308, load 240's to mag lengths and have something that will still deliver about 800 ft lbs. The 260 isn't going to stay subsonic and do that.
The rhino with a 45-70 doesn't surprise me one bit. There's a documented story of a German commander in WWII Afrika Corps who liked to hunt dangerous game. He had the machinists turn him some solid copper bullets with big flat noses and killed an elephant with an 8x57.
Re: Subsonic hunting
I've been wacking deer with the 300 Whisper for a couple of years... I use 9.2 grains over a 240 SMK... Some foldup in their tracks and some walk for 40- 50 yards only to pile up. Actually I know someone who does the same with 22 subsonics with similar results.
I've been wacking deer with the 300 Whisper for a couple of years... I use 9.2 grains over a 240 SMK... Some foldup in their tracks and some walk for 40- 50 yards only to pile up. Actually I know someone who does the same with 22 subsonics with similar results.
Re: Subsonic hunting
At 40-50y I agree, if you want to shoot something at 200y I wouldn't count on the 6.5 bullets or a 22 SS round doing what you want without a head shot.
I wouldn't advocate taking a 200y shot on a deer with a SS round anyway, but some would take it, so that's where I'm basing the advice from.
At 40-50y I agree, if you want to shoot something at 200y I wouldn't count on the 6.5 bullets or a 22 SS round doing what you want without a head shot.
I wouldn't advocate taking a 200y shot on a deer with a SS round anyway, but some would take it, so that's where I'm basing the advice from.
Re: Subsonic hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 300 Whisper with a 240 drain SMK traveling 1050 FPS @ the muzzle is still traveling 1000 FPS @ 200 yards. </div></div>
I'm not surprised, and I'm sure it would still kill the deer at that speed without an issue.
My point two fold was more that given the rainbow effect flight path unless you're lasering that deer's range exactly, I wouldn't try to estimate it and take a shot.
That being said, the second point is that I wouldn't want to count on a clean, quick kill with the smaller 140 and 60gr bullets in 6.5 and 22 for a shot through the boiler room.
I'm not a big fan of chasing and tracking the animals. When they run after being shot it pumps a lot of adrenaline through the meat which affects the taste. If I can turn the lights out instantly, the food tastes better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 300 Whisper with a 240 drain SMK traveling 1050 FPS @ the muzzle is still traveling 1000 FPS @ 200 yards. </div></div>
I'm not surprised, and I'm sure it would still kill the deer at that speed without an issue.
My point two fold was more that given the rainbow effect flight path unless you're lasering that deer's range exactly, I wouldn't try to estimate it and take a shot.
That being said, the second point is that I wouldn't want to count on a clean, quick kill with the smaller 140 and 60gr bullets in 6.5 and 22 for a shot through the boiler room.
I'm not a big fan of chasing and tracking the animals. When they run after being shot it pumps a lot of adrenaline through the meat which affects the taste. If I can turn the lights out instantly, the food tastes better.
Re: Subsonic hunting
A full power .45ACP is subsonic. Why would anyone need something more complicated than that?
Greg
A full power .45ACP is subsonic. Why would anyone need something more complicated than that?
Greg
Re: Subsonic hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A full power .45ACP is subsonic. Why would anyone need something more complicated than that?
Greg </div></div>
Maybe I'm missing the jest in your response, but 30cal 240's at 1050 have much better distance capability and retained energy than a 230 hardball at 850 does.
Personally, I really like the 460gr cast bullets in 44cal, they hit like a tank and run approximately 2.5x's the punch that the 45auto does.
Many states also don't allow autoloaders for hunting, and they also have rules against minimum case capacity for pistol hunting.
All of these reasons necessitate a big heavy bullet in a rifle platform for subsonic hunting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A full power .45ACP is subsonic. Why would anyone need something more complicated than that?
Greg </div></div>
Maybe I'm missing the jest in your response, but 30cal 240's at 1050 have much better distance capability and retained energy than a 230 hardball at 850 does.
Personally, I really like the 460gr cast bullets in 44cal, they hit like a tank and run approximately 2.5x's the punch that the 45auto does.
Many states also don't allow autoloaders for hunting, and they also have rules against minimum case capacity for pistol hunting.
All of these reasons necessitate a big heavy bullet in a rifle platform for subsonic hunting.
Re: Subsonic hunting
I agree that accurate ranging is required but ranging is nothing that can't be overcome. That said I live in the Northeast and most of my shots are under 100 yards. The frontal area of th 45 or some of the other larger handgun cartridges is a postive for performance. My experiance with the 300 Whisper is that even with a 1:8 barrel bullet flight is on the edge of stable flight and when striking Mr Deer the 240 grainers tend to yawl over to make a nasty knikelike wound. Additionally the 300 Whisper does well in supersonic flight.... try 2400 FPS with 125 grainer. Sorry but make my care piece a government model 45 but make my subsonic rifle a 300 Whisper.
I agree that accurate ranging is required but ranging is nothing that can't be overcome. That said I live in the Northeast and most of my shots are under 100 yards. The frontal area of th 45 or some of the other larger handgun cartridges is a postive for performance. My experiance with the 300 Whisper is that even with a 1:8 barrel bullet flight is on the edge of stable flight and when striking Mr Deer the 240 grainers tend to yawl over to make a nasty knikelike wound. Additionally the 300 Whisper does well in supersonic flight.... try 2400 FPS with 125 grainer. Sorry but make my care piece a government model 45 but make my subsonic rifle a 300 Whisper.
Re: Subsonic hunting
Bohem;
All your points are, of course, perfectly valid.
Maybe some of this results from my personal attitudes toward longer distances for hunting, and my concerns about terminal performance at reduced velocities.
I think that taking shots well beyond 150yd at big game may have ethical implications; and that's with conventional equipment. Attempting extended distances with subsonics only compounds the issue, IMHO; if anything, it decreases the effective range quite considerably.
Getting proper terminal performance from a conventional load is not problem at conventional distances. I have considerably less conviction of this once the hunter stretches the envelope to distances that stress both shot placement and proper expansion. Taking this to another level, using bullets at velocities that are clearly below their design threshold does not improve on the situation.
When I hunt big game, foremost on my list of things I need to prove is that I can harvest game effectively and efficiently, dispatching them without risking their undue suffering. I will not jeopardize this primary goal to prove anything else.
If I cannot make a shot within a reasonable terminal distance, I will make the effort to close to within that distance before taking the shot. IMHO the hunter's obligation in this instance is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> to attempt to demonstrate superior marksmanship, but rather to demonstrate their stalking skills that enable a reasonably secure shot distance within a reasonably small terminal zone. Marksmanship demonstrations need to be confined to the range, hunting is a whole 'nother thing entirely. For every ten shots a hunter takes at the limits of their abilities, do all of them succeed? I would hope so, but honestly, I would also think not.
The comparison of a 230gr roundnose at 850fps is not a bad one. But I'm think more in terms of a controlled expansion 230gr hollow-point at 950fps, which is a lot more like a self defense or hunting load.
The point here is that a capable round is being used well within its design limitations. No special circumstances and/or measures are needed to optimize its use. All one needs to do is confine its use to its design envelope.
IMHO, the machinations folks go to in order to drive a rifle round at substandard velocity precludes serious consideration as a means of humanely harvesting big game.
Greg
Bohem;
All your points are, of course, perfectly valid.
Maybe some of this results from my personal attitudes toward longer distances for hunting, and my concerns about terminal performance at reduced velocities.
I think that taking shots well beyond 150yd at big game may have ethical implications; and that's with conventional equipment. Attempting extended distances with subsonics only compounds the issue, IMHO; if anything, it decreases the effective range quite considerably.
Getting proper terminal performance from a conventional load is not problem at conventional distances. I have considerably less conviction of this once the hunter stretches the envelope to distances that stress both shot placement and proper expansion. Taking this to another level, using bullets at velocities that are clearly below their design threshold does not improve on the situation.
When I hunt big game, foremost on my list of things I need to prove is that I can harvest game effectively and efficiently, dispatching them without risking their undue suffering. I will not jeopardize this primary goal to prove anything else.
If I cannot make a shot within a reasonable terminal distance, I will make the effort to close to within that distance before taking the shot. IMHO the hunter's obligation in this instance is <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> to attempt to demonstrate superior marksmanship, but rather to demonstrate their stalking skills that enable a reasonably secure shot distance within a reasonably small terminal zone. Marksmanship demonstrations need to be confined to the range, hunting is a whole 'nother thing entirely. For every ten shots a hunter takes at the limits of their abilities, do all of them succeed? I would hope so, but honestly, I would also think not.
The comparison of a 230gr roundnose at 850fps is not a bad one. But I'm think more in terms of a controlled expansion 230gr hollow-point at 950fps, which is a lot more like a self defense or hunting load.
The point here is that a capable round is being used well within its design limitations. No special circumstances and/or measures are needed to optimize its use. All one needs to do is confine its use to its design envelope.
IMHO, the machinations folks go to in order to drive a rifle round at substandard velocity precludes serious consideration as a means of humanely harvesting big game.
Greg
Re: Subsonic hunting
Personally, I think the best way to answer the original question, while recognizing Greg's very salient points about ethical hunting and humane kills, is this:
If one uses subsonic rounds for hunting, is there a very high likelihood of quick, certain death with a variety of ammunition that is subsonic, either by its design, or crafted by curious, enterprising hand loaders, looking for some fun, or perhaps a "handicap," such as that seen with stick and string? Are you trying to kill a much larger animal with a weak round, than is ethical?
If you are talking about raccoons at deer feeders or perhaps small feral hogs, I see absolutely nothing wrong or unethical about dispatching these pests with subsonic rifle rounds. Of course, one could use the .22, but this is really pushing it for feral hogs. They are to be exterminated, not so much "managed," like more majestic animals, so shooting them is more an exercise of reducing a horrendous menace.
This is why I use subsonic ammo at times. Often, I am deer hunting over a food plot (please no comments about the ethics of this enterprise....I manage my herd in a low-fence and populations in south Texas are above carrying capacity of the range). In this instance, if I see a feral hog, I do not want to disturb the hunt, and a 180 grain Round nose to the head from my .308 does the job quite nicely, inside about 100 yards. I've had deer watching this from 150 or 200 yards, never really knowing what just happened.
If the hog runs off, I am not terribly disturbed by this. I would be if it were a deer.
So, whether I shoot a .45 ACP round, 180 grain round nose over 8.6 grains of Unique, or even my latest concoction, the 130 grain Ballistic silvertip 6.8 sub, over 7.2 grains of Trail Boss, my task is the same. Smaller animals can be dispatched ....quietly / stealthily, with subs.
One must consider that subsonic ammo is a novelty in many ways....a rush for the hand loader, but I agree with Greg that shooting a deer with this type of load really is on the very edge of ethical hunting. You most definitely are going to lose once occasionally with .45ACP,. .308, .300 whisper etc.
This is my opinion derived from over 30 years of hunting experience. yours may differ.
Personally, I think the best way to answer the original question, while recognizing Greg's very salient points about ethical hunting and humane kills, is this:
If one uses subsonic rounds for hunting, is there a very high likelihood of quick, certain death with a variety of ammunition that is subsonic, either by its design, or crafted by curious, enterprising hand loaders, looking for some fun, or perhaps a "handicap," such as that seen with stick and string? Are you trying to kill a much larger animal with a weak round, than is ethical?
If you are talking about raccoons at deer feeders or perhaps small feral hogs, I see absolutely nothing wrong or unethical about dispatching these pests with subsonic rifle rounds. Of course, one could use the .22, but this is really pushing it for feral hogs. They are to be exterminated, not so much "managed," like more majestic animals, so shooting them is more an exercise of reducing a horrendous menace.
This is why I use subsonic ammo at times. Often, I am deer hunting over a food plot (please no comments about the ethics of this enterprise....I manage my herd in a low-fence and populations in south Texas are above carrying capacity of the range). In this instance, if I see a feral hog, I do not want to disturb the hunt, and a 180 grain Round nose to the head from my .308 does the job quite nicely, inside about 100 yards. I've had deer watching this from 150 or 200 yards, never really knowing what just happened.
If the hog runs off, I am not terribly disturbed by this. I would be if it were a deer.
So, whether I shoot a .45 ACP round, 180 grain round nose over 8.6 grains of Unique, or even my latest concoction, the 130 grain Ballistic silvertip 6.8 sub, over 7.2 grains of Trail Boss, my task is the same. Smaller animals can be dispatched ....quietly / stealthily, with subs.
One must consider that subsonic ammo is a novelty in many ways....a rush for the hand loader, but I agree with Greg that shooting a deer with this type of load really is on the very edge of ethical hunting. You most definitely are going to lose once occasionally with .45ACP,. .308, .300 whisper etc.
This is my opinion derived from over 30 years of hunting experience. yours may differ.
Re: Subsonic hunting
There are extreme limitations when hunting with subsonic ammo and in my 35 years of hunting I try to stay within those limitations. Some of it's marksmenship, some of it's safety, some of it's knowing when to wait till a better shot presents itself. The experiance comes from not only firearm hunting but also bowhunting.
I suspect that there a plenty of overconfident hunters taking shots beyond there skill just because they are driving bullets at 3000 FPS or faster just because they are overconfident in their equipment.
Hunting with 300 Whisper is more like bow hunting the only difference is that you have a rifle that is capable of delivering the same energy at the muzzle as at 400 yards. If it's ethical to take a shot a 50 yards why isn't ethical to take a shot at 400 yards you have the same bullet performance. It simply comes down to fieldcraft and marksmenship. That said I don't take shots much beyond 100 yards because it just plain isn't needed.
There are extreme limitations when hunting with subsonic ammo and in my 35 years of hunting I try to stay within those limitations. Some of it's marksmenship, some of it's safety, some of it's knowing when to wait till a better shot presents itself. The experiance comes from not only firearm hunting but also bowhunting.
I suspect that there a plenty of overconfident hunters taking shots beyond there skill just because they are driving bullets at 3000 FPS or faster just because they are overconfident in their equipment.
Hunting with 300 Whisper is more like bow hunting the only difference is that you have a rifle that is capable of delivering the same energy at the muzzle as at 400 yards. If it's ethical to take a shot a 50 yards why isn't ethical to take a shot at 400 yards you have the same bullet performance. It simply comes down to fieldcraft and marksmenship. That said I don't take shots much beyond 100 yards because it just plain isn't needed.
Re: Subsonic hunting
Where ethics are concerned, for me, it's not about the game, it's about me; about what I feel comfortable doing and what I don't. Ethics, my ethics, are about what I will and won't do.
Others' ethics do and should differ from mine.
I don't see ferals as being any more eligible or deserving of suffering from a more hasty attempt to dispatch them.
I exercise the same care with them as I would with any more conventional game animal.
For me it's about taking responsibility for every shot; making sure that what's supposed to be destroyed, is, and what isn't, isn't.
I carry buckshot with me when I'm hunting deer, even though taking deer with buckshot is illegal in my state. It's for the coyotes.
It's not Ma Nature who pens the label 'feral', it's humans like ourselves.
I'm just glad nobody's decided to brand gun owners as ferals.
Yet.
But I'm often reminded of the documentary film clips from the death camps, and I occasionally ponder the brand of thinking that ran through the minds of the SS 'guards', mainly about how they could view fellow humans in such a light.
Looking at the question from this other angle may shine some light on what's real and what's imagined.
Most hunters I encounter don't think in such terms. I guess that makes me the odd man out. S' cool. I have always been cursed with an active thought process..., and with an even more active mouth. I know it's not the best way to be popular; if being more popular was important, I'm sure I would be.
But for now, I'm going to have to settle for what I am.
YMMV
Greg
Where ethics are concerned, for me, it's not about the game, it's about me; about what I feel comfortable doing and what I don't. Ethics, my ethics, are about what I will and won't do.
Others' ethics do and should differ from mine.
I don't see ferals as being any more eligible or deserving of suffering from a more hasty attempt to dispatch them.
I exercise the same care with them as I would with any more conventional game animal.
For me it's about taking responsibility for every shot; making sure that what's supposed to be destroyed, is, and what isn't, isn't.
I carry buckshot with me when I'm hunting deer, even though taking deer with buckshot is illegal in my state. It's for the coyotes.
It's not Ma Nature who pens the label 'feral', it's humans like ourselves.
I'm just glad nobody's decided to brand gun owners as ferals.
Yet.
But I'm often reminded of the documentary film clips from the death camps, and I occasionally ponder the brand of thinking that ran through the minds of the SS 'guards', mainly about how they could view fellow humans in such a light.
Looking at the question from this other angle may shine some light on what's real and what's imagined.
Most hunters I encounter don't think in such terms. I guess that makes me the odd man out. S' cool. I have always been cursed with an active thought process..., and with an even more active mouth. I know it's not the best way to be popular; if being more popular was important, I'm sure I would be.
But for now, I'm going to have to settle for what I am.
YMMV
Greg
Re: Subsonic hunting
Here's some info on penetration in wet phone books at 5y. All of the loads are not optimized velocity-vise etc. but should give some insight.
22LR, RWS subsonic HP, 40gr, 970fps:
- 3-1/4" phonebook (perfect mushroom)
7.62x39, PPU 190gr FMJBT, 950fps:
- 10" phonebook (tumbling)
- 9/16" plywood, 8" phonebook (tumbling)
308, H&N 165 RN, milled to flatnose, weight 156gr, 1000fps:
- 16-1/2" phonebook (flatnose formed slightly concave, b/c of cavitation?)
45 Colt, Hornady 300gr HP-XTP, 850fps:
- 8" phonebook (nice but small pedals, diameter .552")
45 Colt, Hornady 300gr XTP-MAG, 850fps:
- 10" phonebook (almost intact)
45 Colt, Gunhill 340gr hardcast FN, 950fps:
- 17-3/4" phonebook, 9/16" plywood (basically intact)
- 2" phonebook, 9/16" plywood, 11-3/4" phonebook (basically intact)
Here's some info on penetration in wet phone books at 5y. All of the loads are not optimized velocity-vise etc. but should give some insight.
22LR, RWS subsonic HP, 40gr, 970fps:
- 3-1/4" phonebook (perfect mushroom)
7.62x39, PPU 190gr FMJBT, 950fps:
- 10" phonebook (tumbling)
- 9/16" plywood, 8" phonebook (tumbling)
308, H&N 165 RN, milled to flatnose, weight 156gr, 1000fps:
- 16-1/2" phonebook (flatnose formed slightly concave, b/c of cavitation?)
45 Colt, Hornady 300gr HP-XTP, 850fps:
- 8" phonebook (nice but small pedals, diameter .552")
45 Colt, Hornady 300gr XTP-MAG, 850fps:
- 10" phonebook (almost intact)
45 Colt, Gunhill 340gr hardcast FN, 950fps:
- 17-3/4" phonebook, 9/16" plywood (basically intact)
- 2" phonebook, 9/16" plywood, 11-3/4" phonebook (basically intact)
Re: Subsonic hunting
The only penetration tests I've done with SS rounds were with 44cal gas checked LFP cast bullets.
240 LRN was the standard @ 1350 fps into gallong jugs of water stacked up. 10 jugs in a row, stopped in the 8th, mishapen, but not really expanded
460 cast LFP, 1025 fps. Shot through all 10 gallon jugs no problem. Second test, 8 5gal pails of water, filled to the top with a lid. Through all 8, never recovered.
We were astonished.
The only penetration tests I've done with SS rounds were with 44cal gas checked LFP cast bullets.
240 LRN was the standard @ 1350 fps into gallong jugs of water stacked up. 10 jugs in a row, stopped in the 8th, mishapen, but not really expanded
460 cast LFP, 1025 fps. Shot through all 10 gallon jugs no problem. Second test, 8 5gal pails of water, filled to the top with a lid. Through all 8, never recovered.
We were astonished.
Re: Subsonic hunting
I have tried some SS 30-30 Flat nose bullets in the 308. They fly a bit loud and really SMACK when they hit. It is fun to watch, but not what I am trying to accomplish when shooting SS.
Loaded hot (2850 for the 150 FN)those 30-30 bullets really explode. I have had some fail to go through a coyote at 150 yards. I have also shot does through the lungs, broadside, and you could see a blood spray out the nose for 50 feet on the snow.
I have tried some SS 30-30 Flat nose bullets in the 308. They fly a bit loud and really SMACK when they hit. It is fun to watch, but not what I am trying to accomplish when shooting SS.
Loaded hot (2850 for the 150 FN)those 30-30 bullets really explode. I have had some fail to go through a coyote at 150 yards. I have also shot does through the lungs, broadside, and you could see a blood spray out the nose for 50 feet on the snow.
Similar threads
