Advanced Marksmanship Suggestions please for getting best accuracy out of the Precision gasers

[crossgun]

Looking for thoughts and suggestions please for getting the most accuracy out of the SPR, DNR and precision gas platforms. Having no issues at all on running the carbine or the bolt guns. My current shooting style with heavy bolt guns, you know chassis, weight kits, heavy barrels and light triggers, is allowing them to free recoil and barley inducing any force or torque into the rifle. I'm pretty sure this style with the gas platform is kicking my ass and has bullets flying all over the place. I will shoot a great group and then flyers or it will totally open up to WTF levels.

I know there are multiple recoil forces in play with these platforms so how best to tame them from the bench and bipod. Lets not go down the platform or rifle issue path. They are all good to go and Im looking in the mirror here and taking the blame.

What about rearward grip pressure, driving the rifle into the shoulder and those type of things vs shooting the bolt gun?

 

[Steel head]

Free recoil with a gasser?
Personally I’m not a fan of free recoil at all but I don’t shoot at ranges very often with bunny ears and super rests

Kinda hard to learn fundamentals doing that.

I’d watch Lowlight’s videos on recoil and gasser vs bolt guns.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you utilize proper fundamentals, it’s the same as a bolt gun.

If you find yourself “adding” in things, you have gotten lazy with the bolt gun. Not that free recoil and light triggers are not a viable strategy. They are and have their uses.

So, best way I can say it is “run your gas gun the way you *should* run your bolt gun.”

 

[Dthomas3523]

Fliers with gas gun, especially with people coming from heavy bolt guns with light triggers are usually:

Trigger control issues

Recoil management (not staying engaged with the rifle)

Focus on staying engaged with the rifle, with the trigger pinned to the rear the whole time. Then focus on resetting the trigger and hearing the “click.”

Most issues will go away doing this.

 

[M8541Reaper]

The fundamentals have to be applied, as they always should, or you’re not going to get the results you want. It’s as simple as that and applies to every type of system.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I know you're not looking for equipment commentary, but shooting the AR as a precision rifle simply benefits greatly from some upgrades.

I've concluded that bag riding is a useful strategy, and that it can be used effectively with the AR. If the rifle isn't allowed to slide on its support, it's dragging and that dragging contributes to the vertical (at least) dispersion. If the bag(s) is/are rocking and a rolling, there's dispersion. I'm not really talking about free recoil; but some recoil is going to happen, and allowing that to proceed smoothly has got to help.

I'm not saying my way is the best way; but it's something I've been working on for some time, and I've found some simple mods that help me greatly.

Earlier today, I shared them with another member here. I've quoted it below, and maybe some of this could help you.

Snuby; I concur with the approach you're taking, about improving the interface between the rifle's stock, and the rest/rear bag supports. It's a solid echo of the work I've been doing on my rifles while being locked down for the virus.

My AR's mostly have M-Lok handguards, which ride the bag smoother than the Pic rail versions. I had looked for rail covers, but the only really workable option was the smooth bottom of the M-Lok guards. These are an exceptional version of the concept. My Stag Super Varminters have Hogue Rubber clad forends, and I slick them up with an application of Black Duck Tape on their underside.

The collapsible M4 Stock had to go, along with the carbine buffer tubes and assemblies. The Choate E2 stocks I chose have bag riders incorporated, but also required the replacement of the buffer tubes and assemblies with conventional A2 versions. I chose to leave my Stag Super Varminters unaltered and added the EGW Bag Rider to their A2 Stocks.

Carrying a front rest or bag is not always convenient, and a bipod is required. But the Harris type bipods clutter up that handguard and something newer solves that. The UTG Recon Bipod halves attach to the sides of the M-Lok forends and leave their bottoms smooth for bag riding when in the stowed configuration. They're not cheap; so I'm budgeting one purchase of them a month.

Getting rounds on target fast, for me, involves an AR. Interrupting concentration and the firing hand's position in order to cycle the firearm is just too much of a distraction/interruption to tolerate when AR's are so readily available (at least for folks who choose not to live in the occupied states). That concentration can be taken better advantage of with the Luth-AR Chubby Grip.

And finally; all of my AR's have the same control ergonomics involving the Chubby Grip and some version of the extended bolt release, like the Magpul BAD Lever.

There was the time, and also the costs involved; but the lockdown and the stimulus payment covered that part.

EGW AR Parts for bag riding.

There's not a single thing here I couldn't do myself, and the most sophisticated tools I used were a punch set.

Managing noise is another aid, and I'm not going to be waiting around waiting and paying for a silencer. The linear muzzle brake doesn't really do much for recoil, but it can redirect sound away from the shooter, and that's an actual benefit. I use the 308 version for my pair of 6.5 Grendels.

Greg

 

[crossgun]

I have definitely seen the most improvement from my support hand controlling the rear of the rifle and stock. Mostly side to side as has just been pointed out. Most AR stocks, especially carbines suck for ability to ride bags and establish enough surface to grasp.

 

[bobke]

You’re getting some solid advice above regarding fundamentals, especially trigger follow through. I shoot mostly from bench and some prone or improvised positions-using an Atlas bipod and small simple rear bag, and have found pulling grip into and establishing a solid shoulder anchor with trigger hand, and very lightly guiding hand guard with support hand, works for me. For me.
Whatever you find working in your applications, mimic that process consistently. When I vary from what I know delivers my best results, the outcome is pretty predictable.

 

[jbailey]

I like to 'upgrade the AR stock' so its more like my Manners. I did this via the following:

---- getting an adjustable, butt stock that will lock tight (no/little movement). I think your best choices are Magpul UBR or PRS. Try both and pick the one YOU like. Also, the heavy butt stocks help to balance the AR better, as they are usually barrel heavy.

---- getting a wide bottom fore-end. This helps the rifle resist rolling and ride bags and barricades better. Here I think the Seekins SP3rv3 is a good choice (you can add their IRMT-3 upper receiver too). Also PRI Gen 3 Delta is good (expensive). Maybe a monolithic upper receiver will help, although a correctly installed well made rail system probably just as good.

--- get a good pistol grip. This is totally personal choice, but I like fat ones that offer a bit of room for my fingers.

--- Also, make sure your scope is mounted at the correct height. Some times, guys are mounting them too low or too high and their cheek weld suffers.

 

[Snuby642]

It's not a prs stock but rides a bag much better than the crt carbine stocks.

 

[jay6ird]

Bottom line is that for a good group the consistency of recoil is VERY important in a gas gun (AR type). Tuck the stock in the shoulder pocket, remember the fundamentals and hold on the exact same way for each shot.

 

[Black71]

Had an xlr stock on my creedmoor, switched to a prs gen 3 and loooove it

 

[Billiam1211]

If you utilize proper fundamentals, it’s the same as a bolt gun.

If you find yourself “adding” in things, you have gotten lazy with the bolt gun. Not that free recoil and light triggers are not a viable strategy. They are and have their uses.

So, best way I can say it is “run your gas gun the way you *should* run your bolt gun.”

^^^ I agree with this. I struggled at first with my gas gun but after a few thousand rounds of working on technique it all came back to the same fundamentals. There's a lot of guys out there that advocate super firm grips, excessive bipod load, etc. I tried all of that. Wasted ammo, time, and barrel life. Just ended up going back to basic fundamentals and my gas gun prints great groups now. I'd say focus on natural point of aim, trigger control, and recoil management especially if it's a large frame gas gun in 308.

 

[BruntBronze]

all the posts on fundamentals is great. but the main difference for me was dropping the bullet wieght and sticking to a bullet that fits in the magazine and offthelands.

 

[TNSleeper99]

Go back to the fundamentals with a hard focus on trigger control and follow through.