Summit Build : follow my mental illness journey

[FUNCTIONAL]

Welp, been looking at the Summit action for about 4 or 5 years now but been to busy running regular PRS matches. Decided this year is the year and I needed a 22lr. Since I have a mental illness and didn't want to just hit the easy button with a vudoo, nows the time to try the Summit. While I'm not traveling states chasing a season trophy I hate to lose so this will possibly be a long journey to make it work enough to start winning matches. Follow along.... don't, whatever but this will be a spot for a serious Summit build since there is hardly anything on someone doing one. Might be a reason but we'll find out.

Parts list:
-Volquartsen Summit action black
-Kidd single stage trigger
-Kidd 20" match heavy barrel threaded
-KRG Bravo w/ some fixins
-Tbac 22 suppressor

I prefer to use the suppressor but I'm not going to force it if it starts going sideways.

Scope: I'll end up borrowing one from another gun until I decide what I want. Top contenders are a Athlon Midas Tac and a Bushnell DMR3.

First batch of parts showed up today with the stock due Saturday and action due Monday.

 

[obx22]

Following with intense interest. Will your Volquartsen action be of stainless steel or aluminum?

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Following with intense interest. Will your Volquartsen action be of stainless steel or aluminum?

Aluminum. I almost did the SS version but brownells had a Builder's deal on the Aluminum and I saved $100. With how light and low duty this type of gun is I can't see much benefit of a SS over an AL. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Kidd barrel is supposed to be a good interference fit which should help overall accuracy. Kidd is highly regarded and some of the very few Summit builds I've seen with Kidd put up some damn impressive groups. If it doesn't meet the standard I can return it under their 1/2moa guarantee and then I'll pick up a Shilen ratchet barrel (I might actually have one stocked away...) and spin up my own. I have a 22lr Ravage reamer (original vudoo chamber) and the extractor cutter.

 

[Macirsh]

I have something similar to portions of this build. It’s a built Kidd super grade, ss trigger, KRG bravo, arca, etc. The Kidd barrels shoot exceptionally well.

Might be worth looking at the match pro ED over the DMR3 at least in this application. Have the original 6-24 MP on that gun now and it’s a great combination.

Look forward to seeing your results.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@Macirsh I'm keeping my options open. Been a while since I've looked for a lower cost option and there is a lot out there.

KRG bravo showed up over the weekend. Slapped the tool less lop adjustment on it and took a harder look at the chassis as a whole. Lot of empty space in the grip and butt area I'll use to add weight and help balance this out. Also there looks like enough space in the forearm to slip a steel 1"x0.5" bar which will help add some weight. I want to receive the receiver but I may end up putting a Kidd tang kit on it to get better rigidity. Stock is Tan too match my suppressor but I got some sponges to hopefully mimic one of manners camo. 2 areas I will need to address are the grip and the butt pad, they are SLICK. The butt pad is smooth plastic so ill probably do in like flex seal. The grip I'm not sure if I'll do flex seal, stipple or try to apply some grip tape.

As for the action...was supposed to arrive at my FFL today but they were closed for Easter. Tomorrow or Wednesday I'll end up picking it up.

 

[CrashKT]

This is my summit build i had then sold it, I will be rebuilding again.


Volquartsen Summit 18” if possible


Kidd Trigger w/ upgrades


Kidd Magazine Latch Plunger SS


Victor Company stock w/ cheek riser


Victor Company Titan22 Spike


Atlas-BT65

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

Be interesting to see if you can get the Kidd barrel into the summit action. My PWS summit action is so tight I cant get a Kidd Barrel in there even with a heat gun and cold barrel. Heat gun has always worked on every other 10/22 action I have.

So far I've put two ruger and one fedderson barrel in it and it's been a very finicky extractor and a lot of frustration going on 7+ years now with FTE's getting stuck in the fedderson barrel. Just put the second ruger factory barrel on it and it seems to be extracting ok finally after 200 rounds, need more testing. I like the concept of a cheaper straight pull, but this rifle has tested my resolve and patience

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Be interesting to see if you can get the Kidd barrel into the summit action. My PWS summit action is so tight I cant get a Kidd Barrel in there even with a heat gun and cold barrel. Heat gun has always worked on every other 10/22 action I have.

So far I've put two ruger and one fedderson barrel in it and it's been a very finicky extractor and a lot of frustration going on 7+ years now with FTE's getting stuck in the fedderson barrel. Just put the second ruger factory barrel on it and it seems to be extracting ok finally after 200 rounds, need more testing. I like the concept of a cheaper straight pull, but this rifle has tested my resolve and patience

A buddy had the PWS before VQ bought the design. He had a lot of the same issues even though it was the factory barrel. From everything I see and read the VQ Summit fixed those issues.

As for the barrel I haven't seen anyone not be able to get it is a interference fit so we will see. I have a good heat gun and I'm not afraid of a torch! Just hope it's not a headache so I can fine tune with the barrel shims.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

Following as I'd like to see how this goes. I seriously considered building one but after reading about some of the issues people had I went the Vudoo route and kept my 10/22 a standard 10/22. However, if you have a good experience I might rethink doing this still.

 

[bigfoot750]

Are there other reasons except cost and uniqueness to choose the Vq receiver over a full Kidd build

 

[Mark_Dorman]

Are there other reasons except cost and uniqueness to choose the Vq receiver over a full Kidd build

He got the Summit Action. So it's the toggle bolt system vs Semi Auto

 

[bigfoot750]

He got the Summit Action. So it's the toggle bolt system vs Semi Auto
View attachment 8387305

Thank you for pointing that out

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Thank you for pointing that out

Yea that's the only reason lol. If I was going to do a semi build (which I may do if this turns out well) I'd go all Kidd, potentially their supergrade receiver with custom barrel to take advantage of the larger tenon.

 

[bigfoot750]

Yea that's the only reason lol. If I was going to do a semi build (which I may do if this turns out well) I'd go all Kidd, potentially their supergrade receiver with custom barrel to take advantage of the larger tenon.

Fair enough I like it. I was questioning it because I was too looking at the supergrade. Having something heavy and light for the kids is appealing. I’m definitely interested to see your results with it

 

[D_TROS]

COOL! cant wait for review.

I am (4yrs now) donig a full retard 10/22 build with stainless threaded receiver and benchamrk barrel, kid internals and trigger. only part i need is the stock which i been waiting on a used Mac A5-22 stock wich has never popped up. may have to just order one.


anyway. keep us updated.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Well it was a hike to the FFL after work but a 15 minute drive I finally reached.... the SUMMIT! HAHA sorry couldn't help it.

The action dry got me worried and running the toggle all the way back would lock up trying to push it forward. I ran it dry for about 2 hours non stop while the kids ate and got ready for bed. By the time I assembled and lubed everything it's super slick, but not sloppy slick.

Tenon diameter and receiver opening both measured 0.688" (for the record this is the exact dimension Kidd gave me when I asked for the diameter of their barrel tenons...) a few minutes of heat gun on the receiver and the barrel seats with a firm push. Interference fit but not to the point it's unworkable which is nice. Had to use .006" of barrel shims to get the toggle pressure as Volquartsen recommends. I'll see how she shoots but I may tighten it up by removing .001 to .002 of shims. From what VQ says the headspace is set in the recess of the bolt, which measures 0.045". What I've read is the "loose" end of tight headspace on a rimfire is 0.043". I'll see how far down this rabbit hole I will go but maybe shaving .002" is a place to pick up some consistency here if needed. Based on barrel shims I can also likely shave .004" off the barrel tenon length to get a bit more rifling engagement on the driving band of the bullet. Going to test as is but these are just notes I'm keeping for potential improvement areas.

Now onto the KRG stock and fitment. Fore and aft it's tight. Needed to add KRGs second spacer to get solid metal to metal contact on the receiver screw pad. The "bad" is if you smack the barrel there is just enough side to side play in the rear of the receiver inlet that allows the action to shift left and right. 4 possible solutions.
1) install kidd tang screw
2) pinch the krg backbone in a vice to take up that play
3) drill and tap 2 points in the krg backbone and put 2 dimples on the Summit receiver to act as grub screws to hold the rear
4) breakout the Devcon and bed the sides of the receiver in the krg backbone.

Not sure the direction I'm going to take and I may do a combo. Will shoot it (hopefully this weekend) and see it's potential but I'm leaning towards a combo of #1 and #4.

All together she's a bit light, I don't need 25# rifles but something closer to a normal center fire off 15-18# would be nice. I'm going to pick up a new steel bar to go between the backbone and "skin" to run from the mag well up past the front to also act as a spigot. Also as mentioned before I'll be adding sacks of sand in the voids of the buttstock and grip.

Kidd trigger. She's pulling 1lb 11oz from the box. With some non Kidd sanctioned tweaking I've seen these can get just under 1lb which would be fine. As is it feels lighter than what it reads. Excellent trigger.

 

[CrashKT]

Have you thought about bedding the stock?

 

[Macirsh]

I’d recommend the rear tang. Could feel a big difference once I added it.

 

[Vodak]

I recommend the rear tang as well. I moved a 10-22 to a Bravo a couple years ago and my groups opened up considerably. Adding the rear tang brought it back. I still want to do something to stabilize the front end of mine as well, but the rear tang is definitely worth it. Love the feel of the Bravo, but they may need something to hold the action in place if you’re looking for best precision.

 

[D_TROS]

Well it was a hike to the FFL after work but a 15 minute drive I finally reached.... the SUMMIT! HAHA sorry couldn't help it.

The action dry got me worried and running the toggle all the way back would lock up trying to push it forward. I ran it dry for about 2 hours non stop while the kids ate and got ready for bed. By the time I assembled and lubed everything it's super slick, but not sloppy slick.

Tenon diameter and receiver opening both measured 0.688" (for the record this is the exact dimension Kidd gave me when I asked for the diameter of their barrel tenons...) a few minutes of heat gun on the receiver and the barrel seats with a firm push. Interference fit but not to the point it's unworkable which is nice. Had to use .006" of barrel shims to get the toggle pressure as Volquartsen recommends. I'll see how she shoots but I may tighten it up by removing .001 to .002 of shims. From what VQ says the headspace is set in the recess of the bolt, which measures 0.045". What I've read is the "loose" end of tight headspace on a rimfire is 0.043". I'll see how far down this rabbit hole I will go but maybe shaving .002" is a place to pick up some consistency here if needed. Based on barrel shims I can also likely shave .004" off the barrel tenon length to get a bit more rifling engagement on the driving band of the bullet. Going to test as is but these are just notes I'm keeping for potential improvement areas.

Now onto the KRG stock and fitment. Fore and aft it's tight. Needed to add KRGs second spacer to get solid metal to metal contact on the receiver screw pad. The "bad" is if you smack the barrel there is just enough side to side play in the rear of the receiver inlet that allows the action to shift left and right. 4 possible solutions.
1) install kidd tang screw
2) pinch the krg backbone in a vice to take up that play
3) drill and tap 2 points in the krg backbone and put 2 dimples on the Summit receiver to act as grub screws to hold the rear
4) breakout the Devcon and bed the sides of the receiver in the krg backbone.

Not sure the direction I'm going to take and I may do a combo. Will shoot it (hopefully this weekend) and see it's potential but I'm leaning towards a combo of #1 and #4.

All together she's a bit light, I don't need 25# rifles but something closer to a normal center fire off 15-18# would be nice. I'm going to pick up a new steel bar to go between the backbone and "skin" to run from the mag well up past the front to also act as a spigot. Also as mentioned before I'll be adding sacks of sand in the voids of the buttstock and grip.

Kidd trigger. She's pulling 1lb 11oz from the box. With some non Kidd sanctioned tweaking I've seen these can get just under 1lb which would be fine. As is it feels lighter than what it reads. Excellent trigger.

this post is worthless without pics. ha

and is the trigger single stage?
I went with single but wish i went double as people said it can be set lighter...


thanks
DT

 

[srt-4_uk]

Don't sleep on the VQ (or old PWS) Summit trigger. It can usually be had just under $200. Because it's for a manual action, there's no disconnector like other 10/22 triggers. Makes the trigger pull outstanding.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I thought about bedding and still am but given the design of the 10/22 there isn't much to bed except the sides and front pad. I need to put more thought into it.

On the other hand thinking about this steel rod... I'm wondering if I can run it all the way back to act as the mount point for the front action pad instead of using those little metal tabs in the bravo. That would tie the entire backbone and mounting points together with just the skin of the bravo screwed into it. Kind of like a AI AT chassis. I'd bed both the tang and front pad for a 1/1 fit and have the most solid mount possible.

@D_TROS I was embarrassed how my workbench looked... I'm in the middle of 3 projects and couldn't wait to clean them all up to start the Summit. I'll get a bunch tonight to show a lot of what I'm talking about.

Yes I went single stage. I think the 2 stage can go 3oz/3oz which is too light for me. Reading the single stage can get to 1# maybe better was enough for me. Also for vanity reasons I like the trigger shoe on the single and refused to pay an extra $50 for a friggen black trigger shoe on the 2s. Why its not an option to come with the color you want is ridiculous. @srt-4_uk that's actually something I hadn't thought about. I'm it the kidd trigger now but I wonder if I can remove the disconnector for smoother operation.... or even if it will make a difference.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Ok. Here are your pics. It may end up in 2 posts, well see how far I get.

Gun with the 2 types of mags. I had to slightly sand the sides of the mag well on the krg skins to get the clear mags to drop freely. Supposedly the mags are slightly larger than the black ones but I didn't want to mess with the mags.

Rigidity issues. Straight and then a tap on the barrel and were crooked.

Rear tang spot

This 1"x.5" bar fits near perfectly between the metal backbone and krg skin. The second pic shows the backbone removed and upside down sitting in the channel. If I run it far back enough and mil part of the height I can use it as the front mounting point and have the action completely bolted to the metal backbone and not reliant on plastic.

And....a video of the action? Notice the very slight click in the end of the return to battery. That's what you are going for when setting barrel shims. I can get it ever so slightly less force needed but as you can see this doesn't hinder "real world" bolt manipulation and this tighter set should give me more bullet band into the lands.
(Coming when I can figure this out)

 

[Mark_Dorman]

And....a video of the action? Notice the very slight click in the end of the return to battery. That's what you are going for when setting barrel shims. I can get it ever so slightly less force needed but as you can see this doesn't hinder "real world" bolt manipulation and this tighter set should give me more bullet band into the lands.
(Coming when I can figure this out)

Looks pretty good so far. That action is so tall though! The rigidity thing makes me glad I never picked up a KRG Bravo. I know they're decent stocks, but I wouldn't be happy if mine did that.

For videos, you might need to host it outside of SH and link it in. I usually just use Google Photos and link it, but you can also upload to Youtube if you have an account and embed it.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@Mark_Dorman this is the bravo for the 10/22 which is less robust in construction to the "real" bravo. Don't take what I show here to be representative of the centerfire. I MAY see if I can track down a mcmillan 10/22 stock somewhere used but I'll give this a shot for a bit.

I have neither Google photos or YouTube lol. But I get the point. It won't even take a 10 second clip so I'll have to embed somehow.

Edit: also the top rail makes the action seem much taller than it should be. There are 2 anti bind tabs that ride in a groove insert that screw in just under the scope rail. This contributes to why the rail sits as high as it does.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Ok, since weather wants to be bipolar and screw my fishing plans I went out to get a base for the Summit. Had to scramble together a scope setup, ideally I'll mount something lower but it looks like the mag ring will be my limiting factor based on where I need the scope and action design. PST Gen 1 6-24 for anyone curious. I decided to go without the suppressor for now until I start getting the accuracy I need and then I'll slap it on and select an ammo with it.

So far, the cheapest ammo, Aguila Super Extra shot the best at about 1/2". All groups are 10 shot and 10 rounds of each ammo was burned before recording a group to get the lubes settled. I believe a few of these (CCI SV, Eley Match 1068) could do better since most of their dispersion is horizontal and it was a tad bit gusty. I didn't play with action screw torque or barrel shims, etc. This was purely to get a base line. The action broke in a bit and I think I can take .001 to .002 barrel shims out and get a bit more engagement on the driving band which should help. It did run flawless though, not a single FTF, FTE or FTL through all the different bullet types and all 3 mags. Not super great performance yet but I think it's capable with some work.

The tenex I was surprised at. First 4 or 5 went into a 1/4" group and then fell apart.

List of action items
-Install Kidd Tang
-Steel bar for weight and mount pad
-Set barrel shims tighter

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Update 2.

I took .002" of barrel shims off to tighten up the toggle lock. Tried a few more ammo types and retested a few. Similar procedure, 10 shots to get lube settled and then this time I did 2 5rd groups. CCI SV was just over 1/2" and the second group was 1". Everything else was 1" or more.

Cci SV (retested, newly bought)
Aguila Super Extra (retest)
Norma Tac Match
Norma tac22
Federal gold medal target


That makes 10 different types of ammo ranging from $4 a box to whatever Tenex is going for now...$25? I've emailed Kidd to see what their suggestion is or if I can just return it. There is a kreiger .9" Dia barrel in the px now I may pick up to spin up for this.

When I adjusted the barrel shims I also took all my brands off ammo and dropped them into the chamber and I could get them all the way in without hitting the lands/rifling. So I'm getting zero pre engagement. Not sure if kidd designs their chamber this way or someone went a few thousands too far with the reamer. Most 10/22 barrels advertise bentz chambers but kidd was supposed to have a more proprietary design that was a bit tighter than a bentz. From everything I understand some engagement is just about required for 22lr accuracy.

All I know is I have a ravage reamer and extractor cutter ready to go. Seriously considering threading the action when I do that... not sold on that yet.

Side note....patience is not always my strong suite and I'm fighting the urge of getting a vudoo lol. I love this toggle action though and that's all that's keeping me focused.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

Update 2.

I took .002" of barrel shims off to tighten up the toggle lock. Tried a few more ammo types and retested a few. Similar procedure, 10 shots to get lube settled and then this time I did 2 5rd groups. CCI SV was just over 1/2" and the second group was 1". Everything else was 1" or more.

Cci SV (retested, newly bought)
Aguila Super Extra (retest)
Norma Tac Match
Norma tac22
Federal gold medal target


That makes 10 different types of ammo ranging from $4 a box to whatever Tenex is going for now...$25? I've emailed Kidd to see what their suggestion is or if I can just return it. There is a kreiger .9" Dia barrel in the px now I may pick up to spin up for this.

When I adjusted the barrel shims I also took all my brands off ammo and dropped them into the chamber and I could get them all the way in without hitting the lands/rifling. So I'm getting zero pre engagement. Not sure if kidd designs their chamber this way or someone went a few thousands too far with the reamer. Most 10/22 barrels advertise bentz chambers but kidd was supposed to have a more proprietary design that was a bit tighter than a bentz. From everything I understand some engagement is just about required for 22lr accuracy.

All I know is I have a ravage reamer and extractor cutter ready to go. Seriously considering threading the action when I do that... not sold on that yet.

Sounds like quite the process and making me a little more glad I didn't try to go this route but still eager to see you getting this thing running like a top.

Side note....patience is not always my strong suite and I'm fighting the urge of getting a vudoo lol. I love this toggle action though and that's all that's keeping me focused.

I mean, that's what I did and no complaints here. Gun shoots amazing, but I still want a toggle action one day. Though at this point I'm seriously considering just getting the Anschutz Fortner action if I want to go that route.

 

[MarinePMI]

Following. Interested in seeing how the older Summit stacks up against the Hammerli Force; which appears to be a Summit design, but with a QC barrel.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@Mark_Dorman I'm hoping it's just a barrel issue and it's not foreshadowing the future of its potential.

@marinepi looked briefly at that hammerli but the few threads I found didn't say much for the accuracy. I liked I could just get the action of the Summit and do what I wanted from there.

Minor update and thoughts.

1) kidd is super responsive. I messaged them Sunday and by 830 this morning I had a reply and going through possible culprits. I have a feeling it's going to come down to a refund or replacement.

2) I'm starting to lean heavily on picking up a barrel blank and doing my own barrel. I wanted a 22-24" barrel anyway so this would give me the best possibility of achieving what I wanted.

3) I'm going to order the Kidd tang and get that put on and remove the material in the krg that "locks" into the recess between the trigger housing and receiver. I want no interference once it's bolted to the backbone.

4) I picked up a 3' bar of steel for my plan on the front action screw mount and running it all the way up the backbone and out the front of the stock as a spigot. I'll have fasteners counter sunk trig the top of the backbone down into the steel.

5) I'm going to see if I can buy a spare bolt for the Summit and I'm going to shave the front .002" to achieve a tight .043" headspace. As mentioned my current factory bolt is set to .045 which is on the looser end of acceptable.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Small update. KIDD is sending a new barrel with a return rma for the one I have.

Will have more on the accuracy once I get that done. I don't think I'll change anything until I try the be barrel just to be sure it's not anything else.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Ok. KIDD replacement showed up late yesterday and I got a chance to put it on today. Took measurements of both barrels tenons and you'll see the pic below, impressive they keep this consistency. Due to the same exact measurements I used the same amount of barrel shims and the action felt exactly the same at lock up. I also dropped a few different brands of ammo into the chamber to see if I get and engagement and unlike the original barrel I do. CCI SV and Eley Match both had a few millimeters of engagement. My SK Rifle Match sunk straight to the rim with a tink....zero engagement. Original barrel had all of these sink straight to the rim.

I also brought home my better depth indicator, tore apart the bolt on the VQ summit and got more accurate measurements of .042" headspace. Good news is my initial measurement was wrong and I don't think I'll be cutting anything off the face down the road.

I thought the barrel was dirty (I think it's because of a brand new bore brush) so I cleaned the crap out of it and for fun bore scoped it. It had some scratches on the middle of the barrel but chamber and muzzle end were very nice and polished. I don't put any stock into this and we'll see how she shoots, just interesting to note sometimes.

I'm hoping to get out tomorrow but if not next Saturday for sure. The weather may be really windy with a storm rolling in and I want to give this barrel a fair chance.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Got out today to test the new barrel. We've made progress. I'm not satisfied but I feel like we are no longer having barrel issues and this thing just needs to get some rigidity to it. Gotta talk to LRI and see if they are willing to put the Kidd tang on this thing and then I'll do the front part with my steel bar.

Seems like the Eley primed ammo did the best overall. Wolf MT, Eley Match were the stars with honorable mention by Norma Match22. While the Eley didn't do fantastic I feel like a few more rounds to season the barrel and it would settle in well. It's also old as dirt, this Eley ammo was back when I had my 40x about 5 or 6 years ago, a fresher batch may do better still.

I really need to pick up some lapua and see how it does...

You can zoom in on the target pic for group size and velocity/es/SD. At least the numbers correlated with group size... gives me hope. Same procedure, burn 10 to season the barrel and then (2) 5rd groups of each ammo.

Got dope on the WolfMT out to 400 and I think I'll hit a match with it on May 4th. I'll need a better scope or a mount with can't built in. I only have 14 mils of available travel and I have to hold 6 mils to hit 400. I don't expect to do exceptionally well but it will be a good shake down.

EDIT: Just ordered 2 different lots of Eley Match and 2 different lots of Eley Tenex to test. Wont be shooting them until I get this thing more stable in the stock.