Suppressors Suppressing a 7" upper
- Thread starter onechance
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Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
You can do it. But most suppressor manufacturers will not warranty the can at that point. They say you need at LEAST 10.5" of barrel to get enough spin on the bullet to not cause a baffle strike.
You can do it. But most suppressor manufacturers will not warranty the can at that point. They say you need at LEAST 10.5" of barrel to get enough spin on the bullet to not cause a baffle strike.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
Ops Inc, as long as you don't have some POS like a DPMS Kitty Kat barrel.
Ops Inc, as long as you don't have some POS like a DPMS Kitty Kat barrel.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
One problem you face with suppressors on such short barrels is excessive heat. The heat generated by the unburnt powder is extremely abusive to the suppressor's blast baffle in particular and entire core. The suppressor will erode much faster on shorter barrels. This is true of even 10.5" and longer "short" barrels.
The other and bigger issue you face is bullet stability. At around 10" of barrel you get into the territory of it being a matter of "when" and not "if" you end up with an endcap or baffle strike. You just don't have enough velocity with the shorter barrel to ensure stability.
So, yes, you can stick a suppressor on a short barrel. But you will wear the suppressor out at a greatly accelerated rate and every round down range you risk a strike.
Hope this helps.
Mark
One problem you face with suppressors on such short barrels is excessive heat. The heat generated by the unburnt powder is extremely abusive to the suppressor's blast baffle in particular and entire core. The suppressor will erode much faster on shorter barrels. This is true of even 10.5" and longer "short" barrels.
The other and bigger issue you face is bullet stability. At around 10" of barrel you get into the territory of it being a matter of "when" and not "if" you end up with an endcap or baffle strike. You just don't have enough velocity with the shorter barrel to ensure stability.
So, yes, you can stick a suppressor on a short barrel. But you will wear the suppressor out at a greatly accelerated rate and every round down range you risk a strike.
Hope this helps.
Mark
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One problem you face with suppressors on such short barrels is excessive heat. The heat generated by the unburnt powder is extremely abusive to the suppressor's blast baffle in particular and entire core. The suppressor will erode much faster on shorter barrels. This is true of even 10.5" and longer "short" barrels.
The other and bigger issue you face is bullet stability. At around 10" of barrel you get into the territory of it being a matter of "when" and not "if" you end up with an endcap or baffle strike. You just don't have enough velocity with the shorter barrel to ensure stability.
So, yes, you can stick a suppressor on a short barrel. But you will wear the suppressor out at a greatly accelerated rate and every round down range you risk a strike.
Hope this helps.
Mark </div></div>
Ill disagree with the 2nd part. If you use quality ammo and the correct twist to bullet ratio the industry standard is 10.5" barrel for suppressors for a reason. I've put over 2,000 rounds thru my can on a 10.5" upper with zero issues. I have friends that run 10" FA H&K 416's with Surefire cans for thousands and thousands of rounds with NO ISSUES. Trust your equipment, as long as its quality stuff you will be fine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One problem you face with suppressors on such short barrels is excessive heat. The heat generated by the unburnt powder is extremely abusive to the suppressor's blast baffle in particular and entire core. The suppressor will erode much faster on shorter barrels. This is true of even 10.5" and longer "short" barrels.
The other and bigger issue you face is bullet stability. At around 10" of barrel you get into the territory of it being a matter of "when" and not "if" you end up with an endcap or baffle strike. You just don't have enough velocity with the shorter barrel to ensure stability.
So, yes, you can stick a suppressor on a short barrel. But you will wear the suppressor out at a greatly accelerated rate and every round down range you risk a strike.
Hope this helps.
Mark </div></div>
Ill disagree with the 2nd part. If you use quality ammo and the correct twist to bullet ratio the industry standard is 10.5" barrel for suppressors for a reason. I've put over 2,000 rounds thru my can on a 10.5" upper with zero issues. I have friends that run 10" FA H&K 416's with Surefire cans for thousands and thousands of rounds with NO ISSUES. Trust your equipment, as long as its quality stuff you will be fine.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
I think Mark has seen and shot more suppressed weapons then 99.99% of the people on this board.
I think Mark has seen and shot more suppressed weapons then 99.99% of the people on this board.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
We are all entitled to our opinions. And I think my friends have more trigger time then 99.99% of this board as well.
We are all entitled to our opinions. And I think my friends have more trigger time then 99.99% of this board as well.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
This topic (10.5" and shorter barrels) came up on another board recently. Since it is late and I am lazy, I dug up what I posted there and pasted it here.
It will hopefully help in some way. But before I do, I will say that KYshooter338 and I aren't in that much disagreement on this issue. I agree with him that if your ammo matches the barrel you should be fine with regard to stability issues. That is always the key. However, with the shorter barrels and lower velocities the fact is you are getting into the territory where the margin for error is much, much less than with longer barrels. It could simply be one under powered round. But anyway, here is what I posted on the other site:
Actually, I have seen and experienced a few issues with 10.5" weapons and suppressors. However, it appeared to be a combination of things that led to the issues.
The problems happened with guys shooting 1:7 twist barrels with lower powered 55-grain ammo; 5.56 suppressors were on the hosts. The same weapons shot with higher power (velocity) 55-grain ammo didn't have the issues. Issues were unstable projectiles resulting in some end cap contact and strikes. We then tried the same lower powered 5.56 ammo in 11.5" barrel hosts (also 1:7 twists and from the same manufacturer) and did not have the problems.
We started thinking the lower velocity might have been a contributor and decided to chronograph some ammo. During out testing temp was in the mid-70s. I have more data but the averages are as follows:
Ammo: Prvi Partisan 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2893.5 fps (SD 116)
11.5" Sabre:: 2994.9 fps (SD 100)
12.5" Noveske:: 3081.5 fps (SD 83)
Ammo: Wolf Classic 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2768.7 fps (SD 96)
11.5" Sabre:: 2863.2 fps (SD 88)
12.5" Noveske:: 2894 fps (SD 82)
Ammo: Q3131A 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2876.2 fps (SD 86)
11.5" Sabre:: 3000.6 fps (SD 121)
12.5" Noveske:: 3053.3 fps (SD 102)
Ammo: Black Hills 75-grain (blue box)
10.5" Sabre:: 2433.8 fps (SD 36)
11.5" Sabre:: 2527.5 fps (SD 59)
12.5" Noveske:: 2604.7 fps (SD 86)
Not sure what any of this really means. I am still speculating. However, all I can do is offer these first-hand experiences in the hopes that the info might help someone. I have several friends with 10.5" Sabre, Noveske and LMT hosts with 5.56 suppressors (to include Ops Inc, SureFire, AAC, and KAC) and none of these guys have ever had issues in thousands of rounds down range. The other thing they all have in common is shooting better quality ammo that best matches the twist rate of their host weapons.
Mark
This topic (10.5" and shorter barrels) came up on another board recently. Since it is late and I am lazy, I dug up what I posted there and pasted it here.
Actually, I have seen and experienced a few issues with 10.5" weapons and suppressors. However, it appeared to be a combination of things that led to the issues.
The problems happened with guys shooting 1:7 twist barrels with lower powered 55-grain ammo; 5.56 suppressors were on the hosts. The same weapons shot with higher power (velocity) 55-grain ammo didn't have the issues. Issues were unstable projectiles resulting in some end cap contact and strikes. We then tried the same lower powered 5.56 ammo in 11.5" barrel hosts (also 1:7 twists and from the same manufacturer) and did not have the problems.
We started thinking the lower velocity might have been a contributor and decided to chronograph some ammo. During out testing temp was in the mid-70s. I have more data but the averages are as follows:
Ammo: Prvi Partisan 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2893.5 fps (SD 116)
11.5" Sabre:: 2994.9 fps (SD 100)
12.5" Noveske:: 3081.5 fps (SD 83)
Ammo: Wolf Classic 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2768.7 fps (SD 96)
11.5" Sabre:: 2863.2 fps (SD 88)
12.5" Noveske:: 2894 fps (SD 82)
Ammo: Q3131A 55-grain
10.5" Sabre:: 2876.2 fps (SD 86)
11.5" Sabre:: 3000.6 fps (SD 121)
12.5" Noveske:: 3053.3 fps (SD 102)
Ammo: Black Hills 75-grain (blue box)
10.5" Sabre:: 2433.8 fps (SD 36)
11.5" Sabre:: 2527.5 fps (SD 59)
12.5" Noveske:: 2604.7 fps (SD 86)
Not sure what any of this really means.
Mark
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
Good info right there.
Good info right there.
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
Thanks, bud. I appreciate that.
Again, I really DO agree with you. If you use quality ammo matched to your barrel in a 10"+ barrel you should be fine.
Take care.
Mark
Thanks, bud. I appreciate that.
Again, I really DO agree with you. If you use quality ammo matched to your barrel in a 10"+ barrel you should be fine.
Take care.
Mark
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: onechance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a 10" PWS now, but being told I can have a reliable can to shoot on a 7" long stroke gas piston upper without problems has me intriqued. </div></div>
Then go for it if that is what you want to do. Just first go to the range and fire that 7" barrel with nothing but an A1/A2 birdcage on it. See that horrible blast? Hear how loud it is (of course, use hearing pro but you'll still have your jaw rattled)? Now, shoot a 10.5" barrel and then a 16" barrel. All that extra blast with the shorter barrels WILL wear out the suppressor fast through erosion. The insides of the suppressor are litterally blasted away.
So, when you use a suppressor on a short barrel (even 10"), just do so knowing the insides of the suppressor will wear out at a much more accelerated rate. I have personally seen significant erosion in an M4-1000 in a few as 2000 rounds on a 10.5" barrel host. One of the variables is cycle rate though. If you shoot a lot of rounds at a quicker cycle rate more heat is generated. The heat is the biggest contributor to erosion. In the case of that M4-1000 most of the erosion is concentrated on the second and third baffles. In that product the blast baffle is Inconel but all other baffles are SS. The Inconel can take the heat better so in that case the blast baffle shows much less erosion than the rest of the core. What I am saying is that SS won't last as long on that 7" barrel as Inconel would.
Now, we could also talk about the differences between Inconel. For example, 700-series is better for erosion but some manufacturers use a 600-series which is better for corrosion. Thus, not all Inconel is created equal when talking about combating heat.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Mark
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: onechance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a 10" PWS now, but being told I can have a reliable can to shoot on a 7" long stroke gas piston upper without problems has me intriqued. </div></div>
Then go for it if that is what you want to do. Just first go to the range and fire that 7" barrel with nothing but an A1/A2 birdcage on it. See that horrible blast? Hear how loud it is (of course, use hearing pro but you'll still have your jaw rattled)? Now, shoot a 10.5" barrel and then a 16" barrel. All that extra blast with the shorter barrels WILL wear out the suppressor fast through erosion. The insides of the suppressor are litterally blasted away.
So, when you use a suppressor on a short barrel (even 10"), just do so knowing the insides of the suppressor will wear out at a much more accelerated rate. I have personally seen significant erosion in an M4-1000 in a few as 2000 rounds on a 10.5" barrel host. One of the variables is cycle rate though. If you shoot a lot of rounds at a quicker cycle rate more heat is generated. The heat is the biggest contributor to erosion. In the case of that M4-1000 most of the erosion is concentrated on the second and third baffles. In that product the blast baffle is Inconel but all other baffles are SS. The Inconel can take the heat better so in that case the blast baffle shows much less erosion than the rest of the core. What I am saying is that SS won't last as long on that 7" barrel as Inconel would.
Now, we could also talk about the differences between Inconel. For example, 700-series is better for erosion but some manufacturers use a 600-series which is better for corrosion. Thus, not all Inconel is created equal when talking about combating heat.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Mark
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
I had a baffle strike on a 7"... never had one with tens of thousands of rounds with 10+"
I had a baffle strike on a 7"... never had one with tens of thousands of rounds with 10+"
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
They make all sorts of badass 7" uppers you can suppress. They just aren't chambered in .223/5.56 but instead in .300 whisper, .338 spectre, 9mm, 45acp, 22lr....
They make all sorts of badass 7" uppers you can suppress. They just aren't chambered in .223/5.56 but instead in .300 whisper, .338 spectre, 9mm, 45acp, 22lr....
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
What Jack said..
What Jack said..
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
yep, little to no point in going from 10.5 or 11.5 to 7"
yep, little to no point in going from 10.5 or 11.5 to 7"
Re: Suppressing a 7" upper
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but how much difference does using a brake mount affect the longevity of the can/baffles?
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but how much difference does using a brake mount affect the longevity of the can/baffles?
