I will start off with an x-ray of factory H&K MP5 SD suppressor.
Suppressors Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
- Thread starter Fighthard
- Start date
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
facinating....however, one would like to see how it is that the hot gasses are actually handled....got any thermal imaging pics to see if there are any hotspots ?
facinating....however, one would like to see how it is that the hot gasses are actually handled....got any thermal imaging pics to see if there are any hotspots ?
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">facinating....however, one would like to see how it is that the hot gasses are actually handled....got any thermal imaging pics to see if there are any hotspots ? </div></div>
You're just bragging now...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">facinating....however, one would like to see how it is that the hot gasses are actually handled....got any thermal imaging pics to see if there are any hotspots ? </div></div>
You're just bragging now...
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
verily so................
verily so................
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).
I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
That is actually an interesting picture of what was once considered an important break through design.
Fighthard, now that you have seen it, what are you able to recognize about that design? How would you describe what you see and what are the attributes of this particular design? What circa is this suppressor? Is it a quiet design? Where does the end of the barrel actually sit? What was the high point of failure with this can? Why should this design come completely apart (it doesn't). Why was there a design requirement to port the barrel?
Sharks are a great can, but for a very different purpose than that that drove the design and testing of this can. That which this suppressor was designed to do, could not be done by a Shark in any variant. The same would hold true for the Tirant, but why? Hot spots? As this design's original spec was a continuous 192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration, trust me when I tell you "hot spot" was a problem, but where? Debris? Big time, but where and why?
Why are these cans rarely rebuilt now in the U.S.?
Interesting picture.
That is actually an interesting picture of what was once considered an important break through design.
Fighthard, now that you have seen it, what are you able to recognize about that design? How would you describe what you see and what are the attributes of this particular design? What circa is this suppressor? Is it a quiet design? Where does the end of the barrel actually sit? What was the high point of failure with this can? Why should this design come completely apart (it doesn't). Why was there a design requirement to port the barrel?
Sharks are a great can, but for a very different purpose than that that drove the design and testing of this can. That which this suppressor was designed to do, could not be done by a Shark in any variant. The same would hold true for the Tirant, but why? Hot spots? As this design's original spec was a continuous 192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration, trust me when I tell you "hot spot" was a problem, but where? Debris? Big time, but where and why?
Why are these cans rarely rebuilt now in the U.S.?
Interesting picture.
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).</div></div>
you just want to see my ten incher..................
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).</div></div>
you just want to see my ten incher..................
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).</div></div>
Said photo would be even better when BoltRipper surrounds himself with all the Prometheus powder measures he has...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm waiting for BOLTRIPPER to post a picture of himself laying in a pile of Shark Suppressors (wearing the worlds ugliest shorts).</div></div>
Said photo would be even better when BoltRipper surrounds himself with all the Prometheus powder measures he has...
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
So RollingThunder51,
You bring up some interesting questions, and tip your hand that you might have some of the answers with your "...192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration." comment. If so, I, for one, would be quite happy to hear the answers. I've got "a thing" for suppressor design and function, so you might get a pm from me when I have the time to write a proper brain picker
Regards,
Nate
So RollingThunder51,
You bring up some interesting questions, and tip your hand that you might have some of the answers with your "...192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration." comment. If so, I, for one, would be quite happy to hear the answers. I've got "a thing" for suppressor design and function, so you might get a pm from me when I have the time to write a proper brain picker
Regards,
Nate
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
the mp5 sd can pictured is the first design, if im not mistaken, not the quietest, the baffles are a piece of square tube with cut outs pushed in at an angle, neat easy design just not very efficient
the mp5 sd can pictured is the first design, if im not mistaken, not the quietest, the baffles are a piece of square tube with cut outs pushed in at an angle, neat easy design just not very efficient
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Fighthard, now that you have seen it, what are you able to recognize about that design? How would you describe what you see and what are the attributes of this particular design? What circa is this suppressor? Is it a quiet design? Where does the end of the barrel actually sit? What was the high point of failure with this can? Why should this design come completely apart (it doesn't). Why was there a design requirement to port the barrel?
Sharks are a great can, but for a very different purpose than that that drove the design and testing of this can. That which this suppressor was designed to do, could not be done by a Shark in any variant. The same would hold true for the Tirant, but why? Hot spots? As this design's original spec was a continuous 192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration, trust me when I tell you "hot spot" was a problem, but where? Debris? Big time, but where and why?
Why are these cans rarely rebuilt now in the U.S.?
Interesting picture.
</div></div>
There is a lot going on with this particular design. It uses a 16 port barrel so that you can clean the nasties out of the barrel due to the dusty clay like residue from the powder that was used at the time this suppressor was developed.
This is the second generation version of the SD, this a 1982 model suppressor.
It is relatively quiet after the first shot, much quieter than say a Gemtech Raptor or KAC on an MP5N three lug. But much of that has to do with internal capacity. The ability to disassemble the suppressor would benefit the cleaning of the area between the inner portion of the outer tube and the square baffle inserts.
Yes, it has hot spots the blast chamber that surrounds the barrel heats up and stays hot for a while due to the metal mass that heats up and stays hot where it attaches to the receiver end of the barrel, it also has 2 smaller hot spots at the exit end of the baffles (the pointed ends of the 2 baffles).
The baffles are made identically to each other, but are rotated at 180 degrees to each other. Additionally the baffles have two different angles to disrupt the gas flow and reduce the speed of the exit gases.
These have never been made to my knowledge to the factory specification, as shown, in the United States due to the ridiculously complicated amount of internal welding and alignment of the square baffle stacks inside the round tube. Terry Dyer may have made a few while at Vollmer or when he left. H&K did have some repaired but the work was outsourced. Most of the C3's that have made SD cans have used K style baffles of various size and with various chamber lengths.
Debris, tons of it. In the can, in the chamber, in the barrel ports, (loss of efficiency after 192 rounds was based around debris buildup in the barrel ports, thereby leading to loss of suppressor efficacy)...
HTH
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Fighthard, now that you have seen it, what are you able to recognize about that design? How would you describe what you see and what are the attributes of this particular design? What circa is this suppressor? Is it a quiet design? Where does the end of the barrel actually sit? What was the high point of failure with this can? Why should this design come completely apart (it doesn't). Why was there a design requirement to port the barrel?
Sharks are a great can, but for a very different purpose than that that drove the design and testing of this can. That which this suppressor was designed to do, could not be done by a Shark in any variant. The same would hold true for the Tirant, but why? Hot spots? As this design's original spec was a continuous 192 rounds before appreciable suppression deterioration, trust me when I tell you "hot spot" was a problem, but where? Debris? Big time, but where and why?
Why are these cans rarely rebuilt now in the U.S.?
Interesting picture.
</div></div>
There is a lot going on with this particular design. It uses a 16 port barrel so that you can clean the nasties out of the barrel due to the dusty clay like residue from the powder that was used at the time this suppressor was developed.
This is the second generation version of the SD, this a 1982 model suppressor.
It is relatively quiet after the first shot, much quieter than say a Gemtech Raptor or KAC on an MP5N three lug. But much of that has to do with internal capacity. The ability to disassemble the suppressor would benefit the cleaning of the area between the inner portion of the outer tube and the square baffle inserts.
Yes, it has hot spots the blast chamber that surrounds the barrel heats up and stays hot for a while due to the metal mass that heats up and stays hot where it attaches to the receiver end of the barrel, it also has 2 smaller hot spots at the exit end of the baffles (the pointed ends of the 2 baffles).
The baffles are made identically to each other, but are rotated at 180 degrees to each other. Additionally the baffles have two different angles to disrupt the gas flow and reduce the speed of the exit gases.
These have never been made to my knowledge to the factory specification, as shown, in the United States due to the ridiculously complicated amount of internal welding and alignment of the square baffle stacks inside the round tube. Terry Dyer may have made a few while at Vollmer or when he left. H&K did have some repaired but the work was outsourced. Most of the C3's that have made SD cans have used K style baffles of various size and with various chamber lengths.
Debris, tons of it. In the can, in the chamber, in the barrel ports, (loss of efficiency after 192 rounds was based around debris buildup in the barrel ports, thereby leading to loss of suppressor efficacy)...
HTH
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
Watch the 3D movie of this design here...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V-LsiroaJuA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V-LsiroaJuA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Watch the 3D movie of this design here...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V-LsiroaJuA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V-LsiroaJuA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
actually a pretty quiet unit. I used one in Iraq for awhile. It did gather quite a bit of carbon fouling half way down the barrel and you would have to pull the suppressor forward with force to try to chip the carbon off so the suppressor would come off (if that makes sense). But obviously it was a very low pressure system with the porting an inch from the breach. It was kind of a glorified pellet gun... But yes... m882 124 grn pellets full auto, with a suppressor that added quite a bit of front end heft to keep it controllable.
A nice piece of kit for night ops.
actually a pretty quiet unit. I used one in Iraq for awhile. It did gather quite a bit of carbon fouling half way down the barrel and you would have to pull the suppressor forward with force to try to chip the carbon off so the suppressor would come off (if that makes sense). But obviously it was a very low pressure system with the porting an inch from the breach. It was kind of a glorified pellet gun... But yes... m882 124 grn pellets full auto, with a suppressor that added quite a bit of front end heft to keep it controllable.
A nice piece of kit for night ops.
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
For those that are interested, here are some pictures of the internals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: http://www.HKPRO.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Key to the uniqueness of the SD suppressor is that it is coupled with a barrel that has 30 2.5 mm ports in it to drop supersonic bullets to subsonic velocity for even greater noise reduction. It is often confused, but shooting subsonic bullets in an MP5SD is a definite no-no for what is described in ballistic performance as the world's most expensive .380. The average reduction in velocity is 200 feet per second. You can thus see why subsonic is not a good idea, apart from the unreliability that you are introducing the gun as well. Supersonic always for the SD, but subsonic is in order for all the other muzzle mounted suppressors marketed by or manufactured for, HK submachine guns.</div></div>
More info can be had here: HKPro MP5SD Web Article
For those that are interested, here are some pictures of the internals:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: http://www.HKPRO.com</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Key to the uniqueness of the SD suppressor is that it is coupled with a barrel that has 30 2.5 mm ports in it to drop supersonic bullets to subsonic velocity for even greater noise reduction. It is often confused, but shooting subsonic bullets in an MP5SD is a definite no-no for what is described in ballistic performance as the world's most expensive .380. The average reduction in velocity is 200 feet per second. You can thus see why subsonic is not a good idea, apart from the unreliability that you are introducing the gun as well. Supersonic always for the SD, but subsonic is in order for all the other muzzle mounted suppressors marketed by or manufactured for, HK submachine guns.</div></div>
More info can be had here: HKPro MP5SD Web Article
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
Well done!
Few rebuilt now after the Gemtech "Gemtax" issue as the internals cannot be removed from the exterior envelope for just the reasons you pointed out, complex and permanent welding. These cans come in the rear chamber absolutely filled to the brim as 11B points out. This is a 30 year old "volume design" with some interesting bullet grain requirements if the porting is to be as efficient as possible. Solid start to high volume can. 30 years later, so many important changes.
Well done!
Few rebuilt now after the Gemtech "Gemtax" issue as the internals cannot be removed from the exterior envelope for just the reasons you pointed out, complex and permanent welding. These cans come in the rear chamber absolutely filled to the brim as 11B points out. This is a 30 year old "volume design" with some interesting bullet grain requirements if the porting is to be as efficient as possible. Solid start to high volume can. 30 years later, so many important changes.
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
Fortunately for all of us, sound suppression technology and optics have been making extraordinary leaps forward in the past 10 years.
Now all we need is the SCOTUS to throw out that dumb ass National Firearms Act of 1934.
But that is a topic best left to another thread / board.
(Does that fall under the political discussion rule?)
Fortunately for all of us, sound suppression technology and optics have been making extraordinary leaps forward in the past 10 years.
Now all we need is the SCOTUS to throw out that dumb ass National Firearms Act of 1934.
But that is a topic best left to another thread / board.
(Does that fall under the political discussion rule?)
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
Video: Video: http://smg.photobucket.com/album...essor-works.flv
Video: http://smg.photobucket.com/album...ssor-works1.flv
Video: Video: http://smg.photobucket.com/album...essor-works.flv
Video: http://smg.photobucket.com/album...ssor-works1.flv
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
post 22 and 23
http://www1.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=763322
post 22 and 23
http://www1.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=763322
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
![attachment.php](http://[url="http://www1.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=44a384dbba708adb9b71409edbc22366&attachmentid=425363&stc=1&d=1235949732"]http://www1.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachme...mp;d=1235949732[/url])
1.HTG Eureka 5.56mm
2. HTG Aris 5.56mm
3. HTG Universal .22 cal
4. KAC SR25 7.62mm
5. KAC Navy 9mm
6. Gemtech M4-96D 5.56mm
7. Costal ???
8. SWR Wolverine 5.56mm
9. AAC Scar SD 5.56mm
10. SRT Hurricane 5.56mm
11. Gemtech M4-96C 5.56mm
12. AAC M4-2000 5.56mm or M4-1000 ,M4-2000 07'models???
13. KAC NT4 5.65mm
14. Gemtech Trinity LID 9mm
15. AAC Evo 9 9mm
16. Gemtech Raptor 3LUG 9mm
17. Brugger &Thomet 9mm
1.HTG Eureka 5.56mm
2. HTG Aris 5.56mm
3. HTG Universal .22 cal
4. KAC SR25 7.62mm
5. KAC Navy 9mm
6. Gemtech M4-96D 5.56mm
7. Costal ???
8. SWR Wolverine 5.56mm
9. AAC Scar SD 5.56mm
10. SRT Hurricane 5.56mm
11. Gemtech M4-96C 5.56mm
12. AAC M4-2000 5.56mm or M4-1000 ,M4-2000 07'models???
13. KAC NT4 5.65mm
14. Gemtech Trinity LID 9mm
15. AAC Evo 9 9mm
16. Gemtech Raptor 3LUG 9mm
17. Brugger &Thomet 9mm
Re: Suppressor internals, pics and x rays thread...
here old m4-2000 , old m4-1000 , omega trident 9mm and i think new hvt
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
here old m4-2000 , old m4-1000 , omega trident 9mm and i think new hvt
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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