Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

[Adician]

Hello all, I was wondering about the legality of leaving a suppressor with my son. He is under 18, but he has the safe and keeps all the guns for me. He also reloads for them, which is why I trust him with them.

Could I get his mom to sign the trust and have the suppressor legally at their house? I don't own a safe or a gun at my current residence, so it really doesn't do me any good and if she wants to take him shooting with it I'd like that to be an option.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

What you would have to do is name both your son and his mother in the trust. If you name your son as the beneficiary and his mother as a trustee then you bases are covered. Then both have legal right to the suppressor however until he is over 18 I think he would still have to be supervised while using the suppressor.

 

[Burleson1974]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

This is correct. You will have to name another person over 21 in the trust first. He can't legally use the suppressor with out the trustee bring present.

 

[Adician]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Roger. He can't shoot at the range without supervision anyhow, but this is good news.

Thanks guys!

 

[Burleson1974]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Just so things are clear, if you are the buyer of the can and you are the grantor of the trust, you would have to be present. If his mother is the grantor in the trust she would have to be present. Only one grantor or trustee may serve at a time.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Burleson1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just so things are clear, if you are the buyer of the can and you are the grantor of the trust, you would have to be present. If his mother is the grantor in the trust she would have to be present. Only one grantor or trustee may serve at a time. </div></div>

From my understanding of a trust things bread down like this:

Grantor- Guy with the money/firearm/property named in the trust
Trustee- Oversees the property named in the trust
Beneficiary- Person to take claim of the property named in the trust.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Burleson1974</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just so things are clear, if you are the buyer of the can and you are the grantor of the trust, you would have to be present. If his mother is the grantor in the trust she would have to be present. Only one grantor or trustee may serve at a time. </div></div>

This is incorrect. There may be one or more grantors to the trust. The grantors are the individuals or entities that establish the trust and execute the trust agreement. Once the trust is created and funded, there won't be any additional grantors, by definition. Also, there may be one or more trustees of the trust. This is in fact a reason many choose to handle ownership and acquisition of an nfa item through the trust route. Either trustee may physically possess and control the nfa item. This avoids the problem of illegal constructive possession of an nfa item by a spouse who knows the combination to the other spouses safe where the nfa item is kept for safekeeping. Consultation with legal counsel in your state is a good idea. Good luck.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

A good starting place for these kinds of issues is the ATF National Firearms Act Handbook. It is available in .pdf format for download from the ATF. Section 9.12.1 of the handbook indicates that after approval of the Form 4 regarding the trust, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of the trust from the FFL must complete the Form 4473 using his/her <span style="font-style: italic">personal information</span> and undergo a NICS check. A person authorized to pick up the nfa item from the FFL would of course be a trustee. That person completes the 4473 and has the check run on them.

One trustee can pick up the item. That person is probably a grantor and a trustee. Grantors don't need to do 4473 just because they are grantors. I hope this helps.

Oh yes, forgot, you should consult with legal counsel in your state familiar with firearms laws regarding issues such as these for particular legal advice to your situation.

This is a lot like work...gotta get back to the t.v.! Good luck bro!

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Yes. That is the way it works. The trust owns the nfa item. Co-trustees are responsible for and control the property contained in the trust, for the benefit of the beneficiaries. It is possible, if not likely and even the desired result, that one trustee yet not the other will physically control the nfa item at any given moment in time.

 

[alphafoxtrot25]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Yes most of what they are saying is correct. 1. trust starter and co are only ones alowed to posses and FIRE the weapons. (some LE will not give you a problem, but that IS the laws). Your son and his mother will need to be co trustees on your NFA trust. This can be done by contacting your trust lawyer and having him draw up an amend to your trust naming wife and son as cotrustees. Sending these forms to the ATF and waiting till these changes take effect. Then transfer weapons to there safe. But the address will need to be updated to there address for each firearm/unit on trust. AND NFA units in your possesion are now with no safe is NOT leagle. Contact a NFA lawyer, they will give you %100 good advise. DO NOT listen to people when it comes down to the Gov. They can hit you, and hit you hard! NFA lawyer is only way to go. You don't ask just anyone, you know for sure. Hope I helped. If you need a link to one contact me.

 

[alphafoxtrot25]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Remember. Each one of your NFA items in there possesion will need to have addresses updated with ATF prior to moving to there safe. This is after of course they are cotrustees. It's Gov law that NFA items not change possesion between cotrustees even on the same trust with out updateing which firearms/items are where. New apps are being asked what items are on there trust and there SN everytime you purchase a new item. This is to make sure the address and trustee that applied has the items on file (stop from people starting one trust and dividing weapons up to different address). Say the ATF wanted to check your items, they come to your house and half are some where else and the item you do have is not in a safe. Big trouble, gov dosnt play.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

finding an NFA lawyer is gonna be the hard part i think. i have asked several people i know that are lawyers and they are clueless as to the NFA particulars

 

[KYS]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you would have to do is name both your son and his mother in the trust. If you name your son as the beneficiary and his mother as a trustee then you bases are covered. Then both have legal right to the suppressor however until he is over 18 I think he would still have to be supervised while using the suppressor. </div></div>

Your people that you add into your trust have to be 21 and over to take possession of NFA items. I named my wife and son if anything were to happen to me. But my son is not quite here yet so she would have to be in control of it until he turns 21.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

There is a suppressor site that has some nfa lawyers. I can't remember the website off the top of my head.

 

[Mendocino]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

I got a lot of value from gunstrustlawyer.com. Through them I worked with a local NFA attorney and it was well worth the money. I investigated some of the on-line options as well as Willmaker, but the NFA trust designed for NFA via guntrustlawyer had many provisions in it that the online options did not have. I was not happy to spend what I did, but in the end I am much more comfortable with what I ended up with and would go the same route again.

 

[1000yard]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

The National Firearms Act Trade and Collectors Association website should be of help www.nfatca.org
or look in Small Arms Review magazine

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

mendocino, did you have any issues with contacting the guntrust site? i havent tried yet, but a few have said getting a reply was an issue

 

[Starbuck]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Mendocino,

Who's the NFA attorney you used in Colorado? You could post the name or send PM as you prefer.... Thx....

 

[wildbill66]

Re: Suppressors... If I go the trust route?

Mendocine,
I sent the trust site an email and they sent a response the next day. They asked me to call them but I have to work during the week and have not had a chance yet. Could you give a ball park figure on how much they charge? I know that each customer may be different but would like to start budgeting now.
Thanks